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Author Topic: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER  (Read 19895 times)

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UAWBigDog

Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2011, 07:06:07 PM »

I have been crossing the border into Canadian water for many years now and this is the first year where I have actually had to call.  The law was always there.  This is not new.  They just never enforced the calling part until this year.  I also have the enhanced driver's license which allows me entry to Canada and back to the U.S.  It is easy to get at your local Secretary of State's office with a Driver's license, a social security card, and a birth certificate.  Quite a bit cheaper than a passport.  If you are not traveling all over the world and only to countries or United States entities within North America, the enhanced license is the way to go.  All I have had to do is call via cell phone at the point I am entering into Canadian water.  It is not has much as a hassle as it may seem.  Better to get the enhanced license than take a chance with a CBSA Officer who may be having a bad day.


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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2011, 07:25:51 PM »

This weekend a couple fishing buddies tried the call in. The first two guys called and were transferred to the local agents for questioning which was basically the same questions as when you would cross the Ambassador Bridge, where were you born, b-day, where are you going and for how long, bring anything with you, blah,blah,blah... The only problem they had was the 10 minute wait for the Windsor office to answer the phone. It's the same as if your in line at the bridge. You may be on hold for a 1/2 hour.
The second guys called said it went fairly quickly. I tried to call in Sunday and after being transferred to the Windsor office, I hang up after a 10 minute wait.
Calling in wouldn't be a big deal if they were adequately staffed to answer the calls. Cell phones cost money and do not get good reception on the big water. I have Verizon which is as good as it gets as far as coverage and I still lose calls out there. If you get dropped, you have to start all over.  
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 07:29:43 PM by MBFT »
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2011, 10:05:57 PM »

Did they try calling in prior to entering Canadian water or after, I'm curious.
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2011, 07:15:00 AM »

They called after entering but I called before I crossed the line while fishing near the border. The first thing the lady asked was if I had entered and I said yes. I'm sure you could call from the dock if you wanted. They won't be able to monitor where guys are calling from unless it is a land line and they can't expect people to travel 10 to 20 miles on the Great Lakes to check in at a marine they may not be able to find. What if they were in a 14' aluminum rig with no GPS, wanting to fish Crystal Bay for bluegill with kids on board and then trying to navigate a busy shipping channel in 3 footers with the tuna boats going by. They need to get some common sense. That guy probably wouldn't even have enough fuel for the return trip let alone it would take at least a couple hours and the safety concerns of having to make an unexpected trip in rough water so someone can see your fishing rod. The criminals are not going to call in let alone check in. I can't see anyone being expected to report to a dock.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 07:19:16 AM by MBFT »
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2011, 01:04:34 PM »

Lots of issues for sure with this surprise reinterpretation of the 'law.' I would expect that they cannot handle the new phone volume. It's rare that a government agency can handle a change like this with good preparation, let alone short warning. I hope someone comes to their senses.
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dashaver63

Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2011, 03:28:14 PM »

Very interesting reading. To my knowledge Ohio does not offer the enhanced drivers license for traveling to Canada, but I think that would just be for bordering states. I wonder how this will effect the upcoming BASS Open in Sandusky. I hope I didn't waist $70.00 getting an 8 day license for that tournament. How many guy's coming from across the country are going to go through all the trouble of getting a passport for a one time event? I imagine the Everstart up there had similar issues. Did anyone have any problems fishing in Canada during that tournament that you all know of?
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2011, 03:52:24 PM »

I have not heard any specifics from anyone?
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bob620

Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2011, 12:54:28 AM »

 
 
 
 
 
Canadian border officials fuel fishing flap on St. Lawrence
 
 
By Zev Singer, The Ottawa Citizen July 25, 2011
 
Comment
14
 

It’s not much of an exaggeration to say the boarding of American fisherman Roy Andersen’s boat by Canadian border agents has become an international incident. Not with all the other American fishermen now avoiding Canadian waters. And not with the involvement of high-level politicians and diplomats on both sides of the border.

It was on May 30 that 22-year-old Roy M. Andersen, of Baldwinsville, New York, was fishing with a friend in the Ganonoque Narrows. According to an account he gave the Watertown Daily Times, he was fishing less than 400 metres inside of Canadian waters when Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) officers approached. They asked whether he had phoned in to say he was crossing over into Canadian waters. He hadn’t.

At that point, Andersen was told he’d have to pay $1,000 on the spot to keep his boat. If not, he and his friend would have to lie handcuffed in the bottom of the boat while it was towed to shore. He paid the fine with his credit card.

At the time, Andersen had a valid Ontario fishing licence and one other thing: an understanding that, as long as he didn’t drop anchor on the Canadian side of the line, border officers wouldn’t enforce the technical requirement to “phone inwards” and announce his presence.

That’s been the understanding, on both sides of the border, according to Canadian Conservative Sen. Bob Runciman, “for generations.”

It didn’t take long before the Andersen story got out among American fishermen and sharply affected their plans.

Four weeks ago, for example, the New York B.A.S.S. Chapter Federation was planning a bass fishing tournament out of Massena, New York. Mike Cusano, the federation’s president, said that in the past, organizers insisted that all participants buy an Ontario fishing licence, which runs about $100, so anglers can search for big fish on both sides of the border. This year, the tournament was held strictly on the American side. As a result, interest was down, with 144 participants, where 200 is typical.

“We made the Canadian side off-limits,” Cusano said. “We just felt it was better and safer to keep everybody fishing on the U.S. side.”

From the boaters and small business owners near the water, the issue moved up to places like the city council of Ogdensburg, New York. A resolution by the council, passed June 27, calls for “a solution to the new interpretation of Canadian customs law on the St. Lawrence River.” The resolution says American boaters are being impacted in ways that are “unreasonable.”

The CBSA stance is particularly unwelcome in Odgensburg, whose civic leaders are trying to promote St. Lawrence County as the “Fishing Capital of the World.”

On the Canadian side, the Brockville and District Chamber of Commerce wrote Vic Toews, the federal public safety minister, who is responsible for the CBSA, and Maxime Bernier, the minister responsible for tourism. In the letter, of July 6, the chamber says they are “deeply concerned” by the Andersen case.

“Fishing is a huge tourism industry within our region and we depend on our U.S. visitors.”

From that level, the concern moved its way up to politicians like Leeds-Grenville MP Gord Brown and New York State Sen. Pattie Ritchie, who, in turn, raised the issue with Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

“The residents of the St. Lawrence Valley and Lake Ontario on both sides of the international border have had a special relationship that dates back to the founding of our two great nations,” Ritchie wrote in a statement to the Citizen. “People have family and friends on both sides of the border.

“That’s why I was so surprised and puzzled when this happened, especially just a week before our tourist season begins.

“A lot of my constituents are telling me that they are just avoiding any travel on the Canadian side of the river. I am hoping that my friends in Canada will remember that we are their biggest trading partners and that friends don’t handcuff friends, especially if they want us to come by for a visit.”

The file also hit the desk of U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, who not only represents the area, but who also chairs the United States Senate subcommittee on immigration, refugees and border security.

Schumer has written the heads of the CBSA and its American counterpart, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CPB), and copied Gary Doer, the Canadian ambassador in Washington.

“I very much agree with and support your mission of protecting our shared border,” Schumer wrote on July 8. “But that mission must also protect our border in a manner that is mindful of promoting vital trade, tourism and commerce between our nations.”

For its part, the CBSA has consistently said since the incident that the Andersen case was unremarkable and in line with the enforcement executed routinely by its officers.

“If it so happens that you’re caught breaking the law and one of our officers catches you then you need to face the consequences,” Luc Nadon, a CBSA spokesman told the Citizen. He said there has been no change in the way enforcement is done by his agency.

“That’s a crock,” said Runciman, who has a home on the St. Lawrence River.

“I’ve said ‘Give us a list of individuals who’ve been dealt with in a similar manner for fishing in Canadian waters — with an Ontario fishing licence, not anchored — and had to pay $1,000 to get their boat back.’ .... My guess is it simply hasn’t happened.”

The Citizen put Runciman’s question to the CBSA.

The initial response from the agency was that from 2008-2010 there were 117 cases of recreational fishing vessels and other pleasure boats seized for “failure to report inwards.” However, when the Citizen asked for further clarification on how many of those 117 cases involved boats that were, like Andersen’s, unanchored, the CBSA could substantiate only that there was “at least one.”

“This is not common practice, this has not been common practice,” said Runciman, who called the treatment of Andersen “outrageous” and has called for the CBSA to return the $1,000 and apologize. “You can see that by the reaction of the Americans, and by a lot of Canadians, that this is something new, out of the blue.”

If there was something unusual about the Andersen case that prompted officers to enforce the law, the CBSA certainly has not said so. On the contrary, the CBSA has only said that the Anersen case is normal and should not be surprising.

Runciman said if the CBSA was going to change the way it enforced the law, it should have been straightforward in doing so.

“I think there should have been a cross-border conversation,” he said. “There should have been some kind of understanding and agreement. There should have been some public notice and time for public input.”

Ultimately, the requirement for unanchored boats to phone inward, and the confusion surrounding the enforcement, which is not consistent from region to region, could damage an industry that has been steady through the challenges of the economic downturn and the more expensive Canadian dollar, Runciman said.

“Fishing tourism has been maintained pretty constant throughout that,” he said. “If that starts to suffer as a result of that, and certainly there are threats that that may occur, a lot of people are going to pay a price.”

On July 8, in response to the tempest on the St. Lawrence, the CBSA announced the introduction of a new protocol by which American boaters could phone inward using cellphones rather than being required to come to shore and use landlines installed at ports along the border. While that is seen universally as an improvement over the land lines, politicians on both sides still see it as unnecessary. Mike Cusano, of the New York bass fishermen’s federation, said the bottleneck of anglers trying to get through on their cellphones would still make the process impractical at a tournament.

For their part, the U.S. border agency, the CPB, does not have a requirement that unanchored boaters “phone inwards.” As long as they don’t drop anchor or go ashore, they are not in violation, Tom Rusert, a spokesman in the CPB’s Buffalo field office told the Citizen.

Runciman said if the CBSA keeps up its new practice, that could change.

“Now, we may get into a tit-for-tat kind of exercise here,” he said.

The issue also comes as Canada and the U.S. are negotiating an historic “perimeter security” agreement, which could be released as soon as the end of this summer.

Yet, a reversal on the CBSA’s stance could be on the horizon.

In response to the Citizen’s inquiries, Mike Patton, a spokesman for Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, said the minister has now asked for a review of the issue.

“Ultimately, Canada sets its own border policies, just as the U.S sets its own policies,” Patton said. He added, however, that “Minister Toews has asked officials to review the necessity of calling CBSA where a vessel has not anchored. The minister’s priority remains the free-flow of legitimate goods and people across our borders.”

zsinger@ottawacitizen.com
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
 
 

                               Thought you guys might enjoy what I found in musky hunter magazine.
                                                             BOB620
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UAWBigDog

Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2011, 11:09:01 AM »

Bob thanks for sharing the article with the forum. This is good information. I am sure there are still anglers out there crossing the border and not calling. I don't know that I would take the chance before a decision is made. Hopefully good common sense will give good results......although when it comes to government, common sense ain't so common.


BD.                     ;D
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 02:16:56 PM by UAWBigDog »
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2011, 01:46:53 PM »

Excellent article.  I was out on Saturday, but decided not to fish Canada, so I wasn't able to experiment with the call-in and post my results.  I ended up with a dead starting battery, so I didn't want to venture too far that day.   :-\'
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2011, 03:45:15 PM »

I know there have been reports of waiting on hold 10 to 30 minutes by several anglers and a couple saying they couldn't get through. Been a little confusion too from some of the responses depending on the region they are calling into. Oh, the joys of bureaucrats with egos who can't admit they made a big mistake.
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dashaver63

Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2011, 05:51:26 PM »

Good article, thanks for sharing. Still clear as mud though, seems to me that it just depends on the region you might be fishing in. It would be a shame if they decided to wait for a big tournament to make examples out of some anglers like they did Roy Andersen. They must not realize the revinue they will be losing if anglers decide not to buy Canadian licenses any more, not to mention our own local economies when FLW and BASS decide they can't fish Erie any more.
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2011, 08:22:13 PM »

This has been a pretty good example of ego over intelligence right from the start.
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dashaver63

Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2011, 05:33:11 PM »

I just heard from some walleye guy's out of Port Clinton that the Canadian Coast Guard has been out stopping boats on the week ends. As of right now they are giving warnings but soon will be handing out fines. This is really getting rediculous. People out fishing, miles from shore, I don't believe pose any kind of real threat to anything or anybody. Now if I were to head over toting 5" guns on my aft decks, that would be a bit different.
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2011, 08:53:03 PM »

We need more reporters and US government people pestering the Canucks about this constantly until their businesses add in enough pressure to overcome whomevers ego this is all about.
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StarBoard7

Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2011, 06:46:41 PM »


NEWS

Anglers caught in Canada's border crackdown

B.A.S.S.
For U.S. anglers, what is required when fishing Canadian waters on Lake Erie remains unclear.
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By Frank Sargeant
JUN 29, 2011
On May 30, 22-year-old Roy Andersen of Baldwinsville, N.Y., motored to his favorite fishing spot in the Gananoque Narrows of the Thousand Islands area in the St. Lawrence River — as he had done dozens of times before — and proceeded to fish for pike and perch.

But in short order, two officers from the Canadian Border Services Agency boarded his boat and informed him he was in violation of customs procedures. He had failed to report in to Canadian customs when he crossed the international border at midriver.

This amazed Andersen, since not only he but hundreds of other U.S. anglers routinely cross the border to fish. The norm has been that so long as no one attempted to anchor or land on Canadian soil, reporting in was de-facto not required.

But the CBSA officers understood the rules differently, and they informed Andersen that if he did not pay a $1,000 fine, on the spot, his boat would be confiscated!

Andersen managed to pay with a credit card, but the incident, which seemed to mark a dramatic change in Canadian policy on border enforcement for boaters and fishermen, has ruffled feathers all the way to Washington.

Andersen is appealing the fine, and U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer and Congressman Bill Owens, both of New York, have sent letters to the head of CBSA requesting an explanation of the change in policy. The outcome of the incident could have an impact on tournament anglers as well as casual fishermen throughout the border region, since anglers routinely pass back and forth across the unmarked open-water border during fishing trips throughout the Great Lakes and the connecting rivers.

The possibility of fines and confiscation of property threatens anglers competing in the upcoming Bass Pro Shops Northern Open on Lake Erie out of Sandusky, Ohio, as well as B.A.S.S. Federation Nation events on border waters.

There’s been a lot of confusion over what’s required, with different offices and officers of the CBSA interpreting the rule differently now that the question has come to a head.

Here’s what Chris Kealey, spokesperson for Canadian Border Services Agency’s Northern Ontario Region, told Bassmaster.com:

“These rules have not changed. If you are entering Canadian waters by boat and you drop anchor or go to shore to refuel, lunch or shop, you must report to Canada border services. It’s the same for Canadians going into U.S. waters.

“However, there is an exception that states if you are in transit from one location in U.S. waters to another in U.S. waters and pass through Canadian waters temporarily, that is permitted without reporting in to CBSA. And we also recognize that, in some areas, navigation into Canadian waters may be necessary for safe passage. In the Thousand Islands, for example, you might travel into Canada to avoid islands and shoals in many areas on the U.S. side, and that’s no problem.”

Captain Rick Unger, president of the Lake Erie Charterboat Association, said that he had never had an issue in many decades of taking anglers into Canadian waters to fish for walleyes, nor had he heard of any other skippers who had run afoul of CBSA — until the Andersen case.

“This is a big issue for us, naturally, so I tried to run it down,” Unger said. “I called the CBSA’s CANPASS remote reporting number and got hold of the Windsor office, and the officer in charge there told me flat out that word had come down from the top last week that they were not going to require U.S. boaters and fishermen to report unless they anchor or go ashore, period. I called back the next day, got another officer, and got the same answer. So, the members of our association are proceeding on that, (and we’re) fishing as we always have without reporting on trips that go straight out and straight back to U.S. ports.”

Chris Kealey of CBSA agrees: “We understand that boaters may not even know when they cross the border at times; in general, our enforcement people are not going to arrest and fine fishermen who do not attempt to anchor or land. However, if you have doubts, you can call 888-226-7277 anywhere along the Canadian/U.S. border to report in,” Kealey told BASS Times.

Chris Bowes, tournament manager for the Bass Pro Shops Bassmaster Opens, said that based on what is known at this point, anglers in the Lake Erie event (scheduled for Aug. 25-27) will be permitted to cross over and fish the Canadian side of the lake, but they will be advised to check in by phone with a Canadian customs office.
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2011, 11:57:35 PM »

Nothing like clear as mud...

Revtro gets told he has to call back once he crosses the Canadian border because she says he hasn't crossed yet. Then a good friend I completely trust called me today and said he called before he crossed and was told no problem, here's your number... nothing like consistency!! Love it  ::)
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #37 on: August 02, 2011, 01:28:54 AM »

Well - I'll tell y'all right now, ain't gonna do it. Period.  >:(  Sometimes I just cant tolerate utter waste. I'll put up with so much peoples garbage, but this is BS.

I wanna know what kind of false thinking says - WE a certain people, OWN the rights to a certain moving water. Our indian ancestors understood it the best .... a human cannot claim ownership to the water they drink no more than can they claim to own the roaming game or the air we breathe? What about clouds ? Someone own them ? I mean the UN in 1968 had to vote and ratify into law that NO government could claim a planet .... no sh&$...... I mean really ?

Anyway ..... no more Canadian beer for ol' Mojo, no more Wappol island support fund, No more dinners in Windsor........ I even propose we go to ALL our Tournament directors and request that 2012 fishing schedule exclude all Canadian waters. Imagine 313 less out of state CA L's  X $80 or $25,000 in lost revenue ? Would they even notice ?
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River Walker

Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2011, 11:36:32 AM »

 I understand that to some it seems like a big hassle,I thought so too at first.I regularly fish the Pelee area,and I launch in Ohio.Once I have my boat in the water at the ramp,I just make the required phone call before I even leave the ramp area.I normally make the call around 5:00am-5:30am,I always get right through and it takes maybe two minutes total time.Once you have made the call the first time,they already have all of your information on record,so the only thing she ever asks me is if anyone else is in the boat,if there is,they just ask their name and birthday,that's it.You only need to make the call,and have a valid driver's license,then you're welcome to fish their waters.I was in Canadian waters last Saturday,and one of their Border Patrol boats spotted me from a distance and came roaring up close to me,then turned away.I'm sure he checked the numbers on the side of my boat and understood that I had made the call and just proceeded on.I will always make the call,the threat of having to fork over a grand,or have my boat confiscated is to great a risk just for a two minute phone call.
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Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2011, 12:03:48 PM »

I'm sure this is already costing them some lost revenue. Interesting that depending on who you talk to on the Canadian side you can call before you cross or you can't call until you cross. Interesting that some are saying the law changed (though I can find no evidence anywhere of that), some are saying the law hasn't changed and neither has the interpretation and some are saying the law hasn't changed but they are just enforcing it 'correctly' now...

I still can find no definition in any Canadian resource on where and how landing in Canada is defined. Everything I find mentions landing on land - a port, a marina, an airport, a train station, etc.

It's a shame this comes down to how nice or not the people you happen to deal with are. It should be clear and the same for everyone.
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Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of The Bass Federation of Michigan.
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