Great Lakes Bass Fishing Forum

Bass Fishing => Bass Fishing Great Lakes => Topic started by: Revtro on July 11, 2011, 09:14:05 PM

Title: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Revtro on July 11, 2011, 09:14:05 PM
I just spoke to the Canadian Border Patrol.  I was just notified that one week ago Canada changed their rules for fishing Canadian water.  First, the officer I spoke with verified that you cannot under any circumstances enter Canadian water while fishing without an enhanced driver's license or Passport.  

Upon ENTERING Canadian water, you must call the Canadian Border Patrol at 1-888-226-7277 (CANPASS) and tell them where you are fishing.  At that time one of two things will happen.  The officer will either require you to report to a marina for a search or give you a clearance number allowing you fish.  

This doesn't need to happen prior to entering the country.  It's supposed to happen WHEN YOU ENTER according to the officer I just spoke with.  However, I can't help but wonder if you can avoid the possibility of a search if you call ahead of time.  My guess is that they will not clear you if you are not in their waters though. (just a guess)

Regarding safety equipment, here's what the Transport Canada website states:
Foreign pleasure craft (pleasure craft that are licensed or registered in a country other than Canada) need to comply with equipment requirements of the country in which the vessel is usually kept.  So I guess we keep our safety equipment up to date for our home country and need not comply with any further safety requirements than what we already adhere to.

I asked the officer: "what happens if an angler is unaware of this new law and is fishing in Canada?"  She told me that anglers would be susceptible "to a minimum $1000 fine and seizure of your vessel."  I asked her if this was really going to be a big deal for anglers who don't know the new regs and she bluntly and quite rudely told me it's our responsibility to know the regulations before coming into Canada.  

Thanks to Bassinman#1 for telling me about the new regulation.  This really sucks for US anglers.  This is a huge hassle if it ever ends up including a search.  I strongly suspect this will keep many US anglers from fishing Canadian waters from here on out.  And God only knows what this will do to tournaments.  This has the potential to really hurt the amount of visitors we get to our waters for big tournaments.  All anyone has to do is end up searched just one time and publicize it and it can seriously damage the tournament scene on our waters.  No one is going to want to risk search during a tournament they paid good money to enter.  I'm hoping this ends up being treated like a formality and Canada doesn't start requiring people to report to marinas.  Only time will tell.  This is extremely annoying and frustrating in my opinion.  Way to go Canada.  This is just another reason I'm not a fan.  Stupid.

Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: gothooked on July 11, 2011, 09:50:54 PM
This will make some fisherman think twice about purchasing Canadian fishing Licenses. I know I will.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: bassinman#1 on July 11, 2011, 10:41:09 PM
And now if you are OK to enter Canadian waters but your co angler can't, then what? If you are on good fish, your screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 12, 2011, 01:02:49 AM
I will have to get a copy of an actual changed regulation that DEFINES what entering Canada / Ontario / whatever is because something smells bad.

If they truly did change their law that entering Canada includes driving across an invisible line in the lake (and nothing else) then I would make a habit of calling before I cross the line and if they say I have to go to a marina then I will not cross the line. Most likely, I just won't buy an Ontario license anymore. Too much hassle to be a the mercy of border officers who feel like ordering people to marinas many miles away... Better things to do with my time.

We all know a lot of people are not going to call. Can you see jet skiers whipping out a cell phone to call?? Not.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Durand Dan on July 12, 2011, 07:25:04 AM
Just curious, but doesn't the US require all that and more from Candians entering US waters? I think they are required to also file a float plan and recieve an ID number prior to entering. Canadians have been required to have a Passport or Enhaced Licence since about 2007, I think,
DD
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Team houston on July 12, 2011, 08:58:26 AM
Dan I talked to Anthony at the BFL meeting. He said all the tournaments are a GO in Canada. He said things are being worked out with the politics. They recognise the huge loss of revenue and steps are being taken. NY rep Chuck Schumer is on top of things. No disrespect intended but border agents can tell you anything just like police which somtimes aren't true. Since this story has been big news lately I think we would have seen somthing in the press about a NEW law. The old law does say to call entering Canada but after the blowup in NY I think they went back to the status qua which is dont land or anchor.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: bob620 on July 12, 2011, 09:01:03 AM
I found this article on Walleye Central,I hope this helps everybody and eases tensions.

Feedback: Canadians Ease Rules On U.S. Anglers
Tools



Story Published: Jul 8, 2011 at 2:17 PM EDT

Story Updated: Jul 8, 2011 at 6:49 PM EDT

The Canadian government has decided to let people from the U.S. fishing in Canadian waters check in by cell phone, the office of north country Congressman Bill Owens announced Friday morning.

In addition, the Canadian government has agreed to pay back $1000 it took from a U.S. boater in the incident that touched off the dispute over where U.S. anglers could fish.

The decision came in the form of an 'operation bulletin' issued by the Canadian government.

It reads, it part:

"Certain private boaters will now be permitted to report to the TRC from their cellular telephones from the location at which they enter Canadian waters.  The following groups of individuals may report by cellular phone:

Canadian citizens and permanent residents who have not landed on US soil.

United States citizens and permanent residents who do not plan on landing on Canadian soil..."

Owens hailed the decision as 'a step in the right direction.'

"We clearly have more work to do in order to fully resolve this situation and make it easier for both Americans and Canadians to fish and recreate on the St. Lawrence River," Owens said.

"I appreciate the willingness of the Canadian government to work with us on this issue, and I think this is a clear sign that we are making progress."

The Canadian decision will likely ease tensions between the Canadian government and U.S. anglers, tensions that began when a central New York man's boat was seized as he fished in Canadian waters of the St. Lawrence River, even though the man had a valid Canadian fishing license and was not anchored.

The Canadian government agreed Friday to reimburse Baldwinsville resident Roy Anderson for the $1,000 he was forced to pay after his boat was seized by Canadian authorities:

"Mr. Anderson deserves to get back every last penny, and I'm glad the Canadians agreed," said U.S. Senator Charles Schumer, who was in the north country Friday to encourage U.S. and Canadian officials to work out the dispute.

"This is one important victory, and I'm going to keep working to make sure this type of incident doesn't happen again, so that anglers and recreational boaters are free to enjoy all that the St. Lawrence has to offer."

Schumer is pressing the Canadians to allow 'pre-clearing' (essentially, phone check-ins) for people participating in fishing tournaments.

"This would allow tournaments to continue uninterrupted this year as well as bolster local fishing and tourism by allowing anglers, recreational boaters, water tours, and others to enjoy the St. Lawrence River without interruption."

Schumer acted after reports that fishing tournaments were being forced to make Canada 'off limits,' which hurts the draw of those tournaments.
                                          bob620
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Revtro on July 12, 2011, 09:47:45 AM
Maybe what will help is if someone fishes in Canada, gets stopped and not hassled, then posts their experience online.  I may try the call ahead thing this week and see what happens. If I do, I will post my experience.

The last thing I want to do is over-react to all this, so sorry if it seems that way.  But like I posted, the officer told me this was a new ruling from only a week ago, so a lot of what's been discussed prior to one week ago may need to be altered if indeed this rule will be enforced in the way she told me on the phone.  

I think the article posted below lines up pretty well with what the officer told me.  As noted, she basically told me that we had to call from here on out which is what this article is saying as well.

I'm ok with the check in first idea for the reasons Lt. Dan stated.  I'll give it a try and post my experience.  I may go to Canada and fish tomorrow or Monday.  Hopefully the officer was just off in this one detail and checking in ahead of time will be the deal.  All in all, I believe it going to take experiences that get posted online to really ease our concerns and illustrate what the real status quo will be.

On the positive side, I have never even been in proximity to a Canadian Border Patrol boat on the open water in St. Clair.  I have seen them in the rivers, but never in the lake.  I have seen the Ontario Police and they motored right by me in the open water right near the border with nary a look at me.  They were unconcerned with me fishing near or in Ontario.  
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 12, 2011, 03:14:09 PM
Rev, I see this as just another example of how messed up and confused this has been the entire time it has been going on. You can ask even the same person a month later and you get a different answer and almost all of them act like they are the final authority on it when I think most of them are going by office hearsay just like we go by hearsay. I had one officer tell me one thing (I wrote it down) and then deny he would ever say something like that later. Very frustrating for the majority of us who just want to go fishing on water that happens to have invisible lines in them...

I doubt there is any new law or regulation. I have not seen or found it. I think there is a whole bunch of knee-jerking going on in every direction depending on who you ask when still - no different than it has been.

As much as I want to get a definitive answer for people who visit this site, I'm not sure I can no matter who I call. And there will always be someone somewhere who has a different experience that shouldn't happen.

To my knowledge there has been no change in the definition of landing in Canada and you don't legally have to check in unless you land. It is the same in the US last time I checked with the higher ups. It just seems like somewhere down below, things are getting mishandled once again.

There is ALWAYS the possibility no matter what that either US or Canadian Customs can question whether or not they believe you landed which is why in the past I have recommended getting the Enhanced License (I have mine - though some officers still say it has to be a passport fun fun fun), I used to recommend getting the I-68 and I don't blame anyone who decides to just call. Even if there is the risk you may be ordered to a marina many miles, or even dangerously out of your way at the whim of an officer.

On the US side, last time I checked, if you did land in Canada, you had to report to one of the approved marinas for inspection after calling in first no matter what unless you reported to an actual Customs crossing. I have not had any officer of any higher rank tell me differently. I asked the head officer in Detroit only a couple months ago if that had changed and he said nothing had changed on the US side. He is the one we are supposed to call in our region for the official word and the one I go by every year.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Revtro on July 12, 2011, 05:02:56 PM
Agreed.  Just when you talk to an agent and think you have clarification, it becomes obvious you really don't. 

Interesting article. 
http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20110709/NEWS03/307099954
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 12, 2011, 08:01:12 PM
I still need to get a hold of the actual law to see where this 'new' deal is coming from. Both sides have this unrealistic marina phone setup that completely ignores time and expense that is also unrealistic. In the end, it will cost Ontario and Canada a lot more money both ways than it will cost the US. They will get more and more bad press too. What happen to the friendly Canadian? I still think this is coming down to a relatively small number of persons with something stuck somewhere... and they are taking it out on everyone.

"Mr. Schumer suggested that politics in Ottawa could be part of the recent crackdown. The idea of Americans infringing upon Canada's sovereignty is a sore point, he said."

Where and how? Jeez. I know. We go there and spend money, and then come back. Eeeeekk! ;D

"They remain quite different, as Canadian boaters fishing in U.S. waters without anchoring or docking their boats are not required to report to U.S. Customs and Border Protection."
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: LennyB on July 13, 2011, 07:01:21 AM
Here is the link to the Canadian's site with the New Law.
http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/media/facts-faits/096-eng.html

The following attachment is a good document to keep on board with the call-in numbers and a break down of what you are supposed to do when entering Canada for fishing but not anchoring or going ashore.

Also note that if there is more than one person entering, the rules for calling in are based on the person with the lowest level of clearance. An example would be that I have a Nexus card which means I have went to the US and Canadian Boarder Patrol and was fingerprinted and and a background check was already done and I'm considered a "Trusted Traveler" so I can call-in before I even leave my house in the morning, however, if I take someone who doesn't have this level of clearance then we both have to call-in upon entering the same as if I didn't have a Nexus card.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: SethV on July 13, 2011, 12:44:11 PM
This won't work well in tournaments!  What if the co does not have a passport or enhanced licence?  I always carry my passport anyway - just in case of a breakdown where I would have to touch land.

This is just crazy.  I think in the future I will just operate as before, not call in and take my chances.  I have never ever seen Canuk enforecement off shore in the big lakes anyway.

I doubt they care, but we should really make it tough on Canadians to come to our side of the line as well.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: TCook on July 13, 2011, 02:15:10 PM
If this is all true in my opinion it will ruin the tournament scene on st clair, detroit river, and erie. I would have to imagine all pro-am tournaments will be forced to make canada off limits. Might be time for you east siders to consider lakedrive for your tournament fixes. Best competition and payout in the state, nothing else comes close.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 13, 2011, 05:09:30 PM
As I thought, it really isn't a 'new' law: "While the law has not changed"

Whomever in Canada has the bee in their bonnet and is taking it out on the US has reinterpreted the existing law and is trying to slip it through as if it is a new law by saying we have always had to report when we cross the line, not by the definitions of touching or anchoring. That is not true. That is one thing I have ALWAYS consistently been told by every Canadian officer I have ever asked - that you don't have to check in unless you land in Canada.

I've got to find out who is behind this and why they are doing it. I guaranty there is an incident or a tit-for-tat occurrence that has caused this. Maybe just a new politician or bureaucrat in position somewhere in Canada who hasn't spent any time considering all the consequences of this 'reinterpretation' of the existing regulation. What a waste of everyone's time and good will. Shame on whomever it is if it turns out to be what it appears.

The number you call, in case you choose not to take a chance on the water, is 1-888-CANPASS (226-7277). Just remember, once you call the number, they can choose to order you to proceed to a port some distance away regardless of cost in gas, time or bad water conditions, to await someone to show up and inspect you. Kind of a double-edged sword.

Here is information on how to pre-register to be a CANPASS 'member' but note it is probably impractical for tournaments since it only works if everyone in the boat is a CANPASS member: http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5058-eng.html

I've looked for hours and I cannot find a legal definition of 'arrival in Canada' whereas all references talk about landing on or moving into Canadian soil, trains crossing into Canada, planes landing on Canada, boats arriving at port or has a destination in Canada planned with all destinations being a place on shore not out in the lake on water - no mention I can find of that... Guess I'm going to have to make some phone calls that I'm sure will be fun later this week.

Maybe we are now expected to be able to walk on water!?! ;D
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: dartag on July 13, 2011, 08:27:25 PM
anyone go to the Everstart meeting.  wonder if anything was said??
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 13, 2011, 09:41:48 PM
I bet there was. Bill Taylor had already sent out an email telling everyone they would have to plan on calling in the morning if they were running to Canada.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Revtro on July 14, 2011, 12:25:48 AM
I'm guessing then that what the border officer I spoke with meant is that as of a week ago, they are enforcing the regulation in this way.  Probably via a memo or something.  Either way, this is a hassle.

I totally agree with Tcook and SethV about the tournament thing.  It'll be quite a hindrance.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 14, 2011, 01:11:03 AM
I'm glad I'm not answering the CANPASS line tomorrow morning!
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: SethV on July 14, 2011, 09:40:35 PM
I may just call CANPASS in the morning to ask about policy, weather, temperature, ect just too bog the system down a bit and mess with some Canadians.   :P

If I were fishing the Everstart I would still go to Canada and NOT call.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Skulley on July 18, 2011, 07:06:07 PM
I have been crossing the border into Canadian water for many years now and this is the first year where I have actually had to call.  The law was always there.  This is not new.  They just never enforced the calling part until this year.  I also have the enhanced driver's license which allows me entry to Canada and back to the U.S.  It is easy to get at your local Secretary of State's office with a Driver's license, a social security card, and a birth certificate.  Quite a bit cheaper than a passport.  If you are not traveling all over the world and only to countries or United States entities within North America, the enhanced license is the way to go.  All I have had to do is call via cell phone at the point I am entering into Canadian water.  It is not has much as a hassle as it may seem.  Better to get the enhanced license than take a chance with a CBSA Officer who may be having a bad day.


BD                             ;D
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: LennyB on July 18, 2011, 07:25:51 PM
This weekend a couple fishing buddies tried the call in. The first two guys called and were transferred to the local agents for questioning which was basically the same questions as when you would cross the Ambassador Bridge, where were you born, b-day, where are you going and for how long, bring anything with you, blah,blah,blah... The only problem they had was the 10 minute wait for the Windsor office to answer the phone. It's the same as if your in line at the bridge. You may be on hold for a 1/2 hour.
The second guys called said it went fairly quickly. I tried to call in Sunday and after being transferred to the Windsor office, I hang up after a 10 minute wait.
Calling in wouldn't be a big deal if they were adequately staffed to answer the calls. Cell phones cost money and do not get good reception on the big water. I have Verizon which is as good as it gets as far as coverage and I still lose calls out there. If you get dropped, you have to start all over.  
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Revtro on July 18, 2011, 10:05:57 PM
Did they try calling in prior to entering Canadian water or after, I'm curious.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: LennyB on July 19, 2011, 07:15:00 AM
They called after entering but I called before I crossed the line while fishing near the border. The first thing the lady asked was if I had entered and I said yes. I'm sure you could call from the dock if you wanted. They won't be able to monitor where guys are calling from unless it is a land line and they can't expect people to travel 10 to 20 miles on the Great Lakes to check in at a marine they may not be able to find. What if they were in a 14' aluminum rig with no GPS, wanting to fish Crystal Bay for bluegill with kids on board and then trying to navigate a busy shipping channel in 3 footers with the tuna boats going by. They need to get some common sense. That guy probably wouldn't even have enough fuel for the return trip let alone it would take at least a couple hours and the safety concerns of having to make an unexpected trip in rough water so someone can see your fishing rod. The criminals are not going to call in let alone check in. I can't see anyone being expected to report to a dock.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 19, 2011, 01:04:34 PM
Lots of issues for sure with this surprise reinterpretation of the 'law.' I would expect that they cannot handle the new phone volume. It's rare that a government agency can handle a change like this with good preparation, let alone short warning. I hope someone comes to their senses.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: dashaver63 on July 25, 2011, 03:28:14 PM
Very interesting reading. To my knowledge Ohio does not offer the enhanced drivers license for traveling to Canada, but I think that would just be for bordering states. I wonder how this will effect the upcoming BASS Open in Sandusky. I hope I didn't waist $70.00 getting an 8 day license for that tournament. How many guy's coming from across the country are going to go through all the trouble of getting a passport for a one time event? I imagine the Everstart up there had similar issues. Did anyone have any problems fishing in Canada during that tournament that you all know of?
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 25, 2011, 03:52:24 PM
I have not heard any specifics from anyone?
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: bob620 on July 26, 2011, 12:54:28 AM
 




Canadian border officials fuel fishing flap on St. Lawrence


By Zev Singer, The Ottawa Citizen July 25, 2011

Comment
14


It's not much of an exaggeration to say the boarding of American fisherman Roy Andersen's boat by Canadian border agents has become an international incident. Not with all the other American fishermen now avoiding Canadian waters. And not with the involvement of high-level politicians and diplomats on both sides of the border.

It was on May 30 that 22-year-old Roy M. Andersen, of Baldwinsville, New York, was fishing with a friend in the Ganonoque Narrows. According to an account he gave the Watertown Daily Times, he was fishing less than 400 metres inside of Canadian waters when Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) officers approached. They asked whether he had phoned in to say he was crossing over into Canadian waters. He hadn't.

At that point, Andersen was told he'd have to pay $1,000 on the spot to keep his boat. If not, he and his friend would have to lie handcuffed in the bottom of the boat while it was towed to shore. He paid the fine with his credit card.

At the time, Andersen had a valid Ontario fishing licence and one other thing: an understanding that, as long as he didn't drop anchor on the Canadian side of the line, border officers wouldn't enforce the technical requirement to "phone inwards" and announce his presence.

That's been the understanding, on both sides of the border, according to Canadian Conservative Sen. Bob Runciman, "for generations."

It didn't take long before the Andersen story got out among American fishermen and sharply affected their plans.

Four weeks ago, for example, the New York B.A.S.S. Chapter Federation was planning a bass fishing tournament out of Massena, New York. Mike Cusano, the federation's president, said that in the past, organizers insisted that all participants buy an Ontario fishing licence, which runs about $100, so anglers can search for big fish on both sides of the border. This year, the tournament was held strictly on the American side. As a result, interest was down, with 144 participants, where 200 is typical.

"We made the Canadian side off-limits," Cusano said. "We just felt it was better and safer to keep everybody fishing on the U.S. side."

From the boaters and small business owners near the water, the issue moved up to places like the city council of Ogdensburg, New York. A resolution by the council, passed June 27, calls for "a solution to the new interpretation of Canadian customs law on the St. Lawrence River." The resolution says American boaters are being impacted in ways that are "unreasonable."

The CBSA stance is particularly unwelcome in Odgensburg, whose civic leaders are trying to promote St. Lawrence County as the "Fishing Capital of the World."

On the Canadian side, the Brockville and District Chamber of Commerce wrote Vic Toews, the federal public safety minister, who is responsible for the CBSA, and Maxime Bernier, the minister responsible for tourism. In the letter, of July 6, the chamber says they are "deeply concerned" by the Andersen case.

"Fishing is a huge tourism industry within our region and we depend on our U.S. visitors."

From that level, the concern moved its way up to politicians like Leeds-Grenville MP Gord Brown and New York State Sen. Pattie Ritchie, who, in turn, raised the issue with Gov. Andrew Cuomo.

"The residents of the St. Lawrence Valley and Lake Ontario on both sides of the international border have had a special relationship that dates back to the founding of our two great nations," Ritchie wrote in a statement to the Citizen. "People have family and friends on both sides of the border.

"That's why I was so surprised and puzzled when this happened, especially just a week before our tourist season begins.

"A lot of my constituents are telling me that they are just avoiding any travel on the Canadian side of the river. I am hoping that my friends in Canada will remember that we are their biggest trading partners and that friends don't handcuff friends, especially if they want us to come by for a visit."

The file also hit the desk of U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, who not only represents the area, but who also chairs the United States Senate subcommittee on immigration, refugees and border security.

Schumer has written the heads of the CBSA and its American counterpart, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CPB), and copied Gary Doer, the Canadian ambassador in Washington.

"I very much agree with and support your mission of protecting our shared border," Schumer wrote on July 8. "But that mission must also protect our border in a manner that is mindful of promoting vital trade, tourism and commerce between our nations."

For its part, the CBSA has consistently said since the incident that the Andersen case was unremarkable and in line with the enforcement executed routinely by its officers.

"If it so happens that you're caught breaking the law and one of our officers catches you then you need to face the consequences," Luc Nadon, a CBSA spokesman told the Citizen. He said there has been no change in the way enforcement is done by his agency.

"That's a crock," said Runciman, who has a home on the St. Lawrence River.

"I've said 'Give us a list of individuals who've been dealt with in a similar manner for fishing in Canadian waters — with an Ontario fishing licence, not anchored — and had to pay $1,000 to get their boat back.' .... My guess is it simply hasn't happened."

The Citizen put Runciman's question to the CBSA.

The initial response from the agency was that from 2008-2010 there were 117 cases of recreational fishing vessels and other pleasure boats seized for "failure to report inwards." However, when the Citizen asked for further clarification on how many of those 117 cases involved boats that were, like Andersen's, unanchored, the CBSA could substantiate only that there was "at least one."

"This is not common practice, this has not been common practice," said Runciman, who called the treatment of Andersen "outrageous" and has called for the CBSA to return the $1,000 and apologize. "You can see that by the reaction of the Americans, and by a lot of Canadians, that this is something new, out of the blue."

If there was something unusual about the Andersen case that prompted officers to enforce the law, the CBSA certainly has not said so. On the contrary, the CBSA has only said that the Anersen case is normal and should not be surprising.

Runciman said if the CBSA was going to change the way it enforced the law, it should have been straightforward in doing so.

"I think there should have been a cross-border conversation," he said. "There should have been some kind of understanding and agreement. There should have been some public notice and time for public input."

Ultimately, the requirement for unanchored boats to phone inward, and the confusion surrounding the enforcement, which is not consistent from region to region, could damage an industry that has been steady through the challenges of the economic downturn and the more expensive Canadian dollar, Runciman said.

"Fishing tourism has been maintained pretty constant throughout that," he said. "If that starts to suffer as a result of that, and certainly there are threats that that may occur, a lot of people are going to pay a price."

On July 8, in response to the tempest on the St. Lawrence, the CBSA announced the introduction of a new protocol by which American boaters could phone inward using cellphones rather than being required to come to shore and use landlines installed at ports along the border. While that is seen universally as an improvement over the land lines, politicians on both sides still see it as unnecessary. Mike Cusano, of the New York bass fishermen's federation, said the bottleneck of anglers trying to get through on their cellphones would still make the process impractical at a tournament.

For their part, the U.S. border agency, the CPB, does not have a requirement that unanchored boaters "phone inwards." As long as they don't drop anchor or go ashore, they are not in violation, Tom Rusert, a spokesman in the CPB's Buffalo field office told the Citizen.

Runciman said if the CBSA keeps up its new practice, that could change.

"Now, we may get into a tit-for-tat kind of exercise here," he said.

The issue also comes as Canada and the U.S. are negotiating an historic "perimeter security" agreement, which could be released as soon as the end of this summer.

Yet, a reversal on the CBSA's stance could be on the horizon.

In response to the Citizen's inquiries, Mike Patton, a spokesman for Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, said the minister has now asked for a review of the issue.

"Ultimately, Canada sets its own border policies, just as the U.S sets its own policies," Patton said. He added, however, that "Minister Toews has asked officials to review the necessity of calling CBSA where a vessel has not anchored. The minister's priority remains the free-flow of legitimate goods and people across our borders."

zsinger@ottawacitizen.com
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen



                               Thought you guys might enjoy what I found in musky hunter magazine.
                                                             BOB620
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Skulley on July 26, 2011, 11:09:01 AM
Bob thanks for sharing the article with the forum. This is good information. I am sure there are still anglers out there crossing the border and not calling. I don't know that I would take the chance before a decision is made. Hopefully good common sense will give good results......although when it comes to government, common sense ain't so common.


BD.                     ;D
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Revtro on July 26, 2011, 01:46:53 PM
Excellent article.  I was out on Saturday, but decided not to fish Canada, so I wasn't able to experiment with the call-in and post my results.  I ended up with a dead starting battery, so I didn't want to venture too far that day.   :-\'
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 26, 2011, 03:45:15 PM
I know there have been reports of waiting on hold 10 to 30 minutes by several anglers and a couple saying they couldn't get through. Been a little confusion too from some of the responses depending on the region they are calling into. Oh, the joys of bureaucrats with egos who can't admit they made a big mistake.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: dashaver63 on July 26, 2011, 05:51:26 PM
Good article, thanks for sharing. Still clear as mud though, seems to me that it just depends on the region you might be fishing in. It would be a shame if they decided to wait for a big tournament to make examples out of some anglers like they did Roy Andersen. They must not realize the revinue they will be losing if anglers decide not to buy Canadian licenses any more, not to mention our own local economies when FLW and BASS decide they can't fish Erie any more.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 26, 2011, 08:22:13 PM
This has been a pretty good example of ego over intelligence right from the start.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: dashaver63 on July 27, 2011, 05:33:11 PM
I just heard from some walleye guy's out of Port Clinton that the Canadian Coast Guard has been out stopping boats on the week ends. As of right now they are giving warnings but soon will be handing out fines. This is really getting rediculous. People out fishing, miles from shore, I don't believe pose any kind of real threat to anything or anybody. Now if I were to head over toting 5" guns on my aft decks, that would be a bit different.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on July 27, 2011, 08:53:03 PM
We need more reporters and US government people pestering the Canucks about this constantly until their businesses add in enough pressure to overcome whomevers ego this is all about.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: StarBoard7 on August 01, 2011, 06:46:41 PM

NEWS

Anglers caught in Canada's border crackdown

B.A.S.S.
For U.S. anglers, what is required when fishing Canadian waters on Lake Erie remains unclear.
RELATED STORIES
Canadian Circle
Feeling fish drunk
Mercer signs through 2013
Erie's hot!
A pretty good week
ALSO BY THE AUTHOR
Reeling in innovation
ASA's efforts paying off
Far East conflict could affect manufacturing
By Frank Sargeant
JUN 29, 2011
On May 30, 22-year-old Roy Andersen of Baldwinsville, N.Y., motored to his favorite fishing spot in the Gananoque Narrows of the Thousand Islands area in the St. Lawrence River — as he had done dozens of times before — and proceeded to fish for pike and perch.

But in short order, two officers from the Canadian Border Services Agency boarded his boat and informed him he was in violation of customs procedures. He had failed to report in to Canadian customs when he crossed the international border at midriver.

This amazed Andersen, since not only he but hundreds of other U.S. anglers routinely cross the border to fish. The norm has been that so long as no one attempted to anchor or land on Canadian soil, reporting in was de-facto not required.

But the CBSA officers understood the rules differently, and they informed Andersen that if he did not pay a $1,000 fine, on the spot, his boat would be confiscated!

Andersen managed to pay with a credit card, but the incident, which seemed to mark a dramatic change in Canadian policy on border enforcement for boaters and fishermen, has ruffled feathers all the way to Washington.

Andersen is appealing the fine, and U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer and Congressman Bill Owens, both of New York, have sent letters to the head of CBSA requesting an explanation of the change in policy. The outcome of the incident could have an impact on tournament anglers as well as casual fishermen throughout the border region, since anglers routinely pass back and forth across the unmarked open-water border during fishing trips throughout the Great Lakes and the connecting rivers.

The possibility of fines and confiscation of property threatens anglers competing in the upcoming Bass Pro Shops Northern Open on Lake Erie out of Sandusky, Ohio, as well as B.A.S.S. Federation Nation events on border waters.

There's been a lot of confusion over what's required, with different offices and officers of the CBSA interpreting the rule differently now that the question has come to a head.

Here's what Chris Kealey, spokesperson for Canadian Border Services Agency's Northern Ontario Region, told Bassmaster.com:

"These rules have not changed. If you are entering Canadian waters by boat and you drop anchor or go to shore to refuel, lunch or shop, you must report to Canada border services. It's the same for Canadians going into U.S. waters.

"However, there is an exception that states if you are in transit from one location in U.S. waters to another in U.S. waters and pass through Canadian waters temporarily, that is permitted without reporting in to CBSA. And we also recognize that, in some areas, navigation into Canadian waters may be necessary for safe passage. In the Thousand Islands, for example, you might travel into Canada to avoid islands and shoals in many areas on the U.S. side, and that's no problem."

Captain Rick Unger, president of the Lake Erie Charterboat Association, said that he had never had an issue in many decades of taking anglers into Canadian waters to fish for walleyes, nor had he heard of any other skippers who had run afoul of CBSA — until the Andersen case.

"This is a big issue for us, naturally, so I tried to run it down," Unger said. "I called the CBSA's CANPASS remote reporting number and got hold of the Windsor office, and the officer in charge there told me flat out that word had come down from the top last week that they were not going to require U.S. boaters and fishermen to report unless they anchor or go ashore, period. I called back the next day, got another officer, and got the same answer. So, the members of our association are proceeding on that, (and we're) fishing as we always have without reporting on trips that go straight out and straight back to U.S. ports."

Chris Kealey of CBSA agrees: "We understand that boaters may not even know when they cross the border at times; in general, our enforcement people are not going to arrest and fine fishermen who do not attempt to anchor or land. However, if you have doubts, you can call 888-226-7277 anywhere along the Canadian/U.S. border to report in," Kealey told BASS Times.

Chris Bowes, tournament manager for the Bass Pro Shops Bassmaster Opens, said that based on what is known at this point, anglers in the Lake Erie event (scheduled for Aug. 25-27) will be permitted to cross over and fish the Canadian side of the lake, but they will be advised to check in by phone with a Canadian customs office.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on August 01, 2011, 11:57:35 PM
Nothing like clear as mud...

Revtro gets told he has to call back once he crosses the Canadian border because she says he hasn't crossed yet. Then a good friend I completely trust called me today and said he called before he crossed and was told no problem, here's your number... nothing like consistency!! Love it  ::)
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Mojo on August 02, 2011, 01:28:54 AM
Well - I'll tell y'all right now, ain't gonna do it. Period.  >:(  Sometimes I just cant tolerate utter waste. I'll put up with so much peoples garbage, but this is BS.

I wanna know what kind of false thinking says - WE a certain people, OWN the rights to a certain moving water. Our indian ancestors understood it the best .... a human cannot claim ownership to the water they drink no more than can they claim to own the roaming game or the air we breathe? What about clouds ? Someone own them ? I mean the UN in 1968 had to vote and ratify into law that NO government could claim a planet .... no sh&$...... I mean really ?

Anyway ..... no more Canadian beer for ol' Mojo, no more Wappol island support fund, No more dinners in Windsor........ I even propose we go to ALL our Tournament directors and request that 2012 fishing schedule exclude all Canadian waters. Imagine 313 less out of state CA L's  X $80 or $25,000 in lost revenue ? Would they even notice ?
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: River Walker on August 02, 2011, 11:36:32 AM
 I understand that to some it seems like a big hassle,I thought so too at first.I regularly fish the Pelee area,and I launch in Ohio.Once I have my boat in the water at the ramp,I just make the required phone call before I even leave the ramp area.I normally make the call around 5:00am-5:30am,I always get right through and it takes maybe two minutes total time.Once you have made the call the first time,they already have all of your information on record,so the only thing she ever asks me is if anyone else is in the boat,if there is,they just ask their name and birthday,that's it.You only need to make the call,and have a valid driver's license,then you're welcome to fish their waters.I was in Canadian waters last Saturday,and one of their Border Patrol boats spotted me from a distance and came roaring up close to me,then turned away.I'm sure he checked the numbers on the side of my boat and understood that I had made the call and just proceeded on.I will always make the call,the threat of having to fork over a grand,or have my boat confiscated is to great a risk just for a two minute phone call.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on August 02, 2011, 12:03:48 PM
I'm sure this is already costing them some lost revenue. Interesting that depending on who you talk to on the Canadian side you can call before you cross or you can't call until you cross. Interesting that some are saying the law changed (though I can find no evidence anywhere of that), some are saying the law hasn't changed and neither has the interpretation and some are saying the law hasn't changed but they are just enforcing it 'correctly' now...

I still can find no definition in any Canadian resource on where and how landing in Canada is defined. Everything I find mentions landing on land - a port, a marina, an airport, a train station, etc.

It's a shame this comes down to how nice or not the people you happen to deal with are. It should be clear and the same for everyone.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Bloomer on August 07, 2011, 05:01:50 PM
wow, first I have heard of this, I know i have been pretty busy lately, but I spent the majority of today over the border and have done so at least a half dozen times this year. I have yet to run into any officials, but I did notice a real lack of MC numbers, only one other than mine out there. Really had no idea this was going on?
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: dashaver63 on August 08, 2011, 08:20:32 PM
It will be interesting to see what happens in a couple weeks when BASS fishes Erie. I wonder if it will still be a 2 minute phone call when 60 or 70 guy's all try to call in the morning before they launch, or as in Revtro's case, when they get ready to cross the line. UGGHHH! Glad I'm just along for the ride. If I was fishing as a pro, I'd say heck with it and hunt green fish.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: fiker on August 09, 2011, 07:32:43 PM
Several members of my club have gone to Canada, called in, and have had no problems. 

They said the same that some one here already said.  Once you're in the system it goes pretty quick.

Questions asked are just the typical questions they ask when crossing the bridge or tunnel. 

I personally haven't tried it yet, but will attempt it on Thursday I'm sure. 

Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on August 09, 2011, 10:32:47 PM
Updates are helpful. Thanks.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: fiker on August 14, 2011, 11:33:30 AM
Ok.  I did call in on Thursday.  This is what I experienced. 

A young man picked up the phone, asked a few questions, and switched me to a woman.  I believe that she was in Windsor, since I told the young man that is where I was closest to. 

The entire call lasted for 7:48.  Since it was my first time calling in with my boat it actually tool a little longer.  Once your craft and you are in the computer system it is supposed to go even quicker.

What I did experience was a woman officer on the other end of the line that.... (I'm trying to say this as nicely as possible)..... well she had issues.

Early in our conservation I asked her a question.  "YOU will not ask questions.  I WILL ask the questions." 

"What marina are you coming from?" 
"I'm not coming from a marina but from Erie Metro park". 
"That's not what I asked.  What marina will you be landing in Canada at?"
"I"m not landing, I'm just fishing."
"SO, you don't plan on touching land or anchoring?" 
"No mam, we're just catch and release Bass fishing"
"Just answer the questions sir".

I was berated for not knowing exactly how wide the beam on my boat is.  "You are the captain of your vessel.  You are supposed to know these things".  Same for not knowing exactly the draft of my boat. 

When calling in on the water one has to deal with wind noise, and poor cell reception.  When I told her I was having trouble hearing her, that she was breaking up, I was informed "I'm on a land line, you're on a cell.  You're the one breaking up not me".

When asked my birth date I responded "1-31-1952".  "NO, you can't answer it THAT WAY.  I have to have the year first, then the month, then the day". 

When asked about my partner's birthday, I handed the phone to him.
"That didn't sound like Richard's voice".  "Richard, you are the captain of that vessel.  You must answer all the questions yourself.  I will not talk to anyone else. You are ultimately responsible for everything that happens on your boat".

Then there are the usual border crossing questions:  Are you carrying any firearms?  Other than fishing equipment and safety equipment is there any thing else? Any alcohol? 

I can't remember everything that happened.  But like I said, she had issues.  I've dealt with customs officers before, police officers, and others This lady was the toughest to deal with.  My 78 year old partner was able to listen to the whole conversation on speaker phone.  He said that she was the worst public servant he'd ever seen.  He had other words for her, but this is a family forum.   About a half hour before I called in, so did another member of our club.  He said she wasn't as bad to him as she was to me, but he agreed that she was pretty rude, and kind of a power junkie.

I don't like confrontations, especially with people that hold my immediate fate in their hands.  My experience with this lady officer soured my day.  As it turned out, we stayed in Canadian waters for about the same amount of time it took to make the phone call.

Will it keep me from going back? No.
Will I buy a Canadian license next year? Probably.

I gotta believe (hope) that I got an officer that was having a bad day, and I was the scape goat. 

I respect the fact that when in Canada I'm the foreigner.  They get to make and enforce the laws they see fit.  It's their country.  I will, when there, follow their rules and laws.  But if I'm made to feel every time like she made me feel this time, then I just won't go. 
The fishing is good, but it's not that good.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: River Walker on August 14, 2011, 02:26:09 PM
 I fished a tournament out of Sandusky Bay yesterday,and as usual upon leaving the ramp made the call.I know I'm supposed to wait until I cross over into Canadian waters,but until yesterday this hadn't been a problem.Yesterday they told me to call back upon entering their water.Since I was heading to Pelee,I made the call near Middle Island,the call as usual lasted matbe two minutes.The problem we had was with the American LEO's coming back.We were just about to cross back over into Ohio waters when a Sandusky County Sheriff vessel spotted us.It was easy to tell that he was running right on the international border line,and he had every intention of cutting us off.We gave it a little gas,and this ticked him off big time,the second we crossed the line,he swerved right in front us throwing a monster wake right over the bow of the 620,everything got soaked of course.There was 5 deputies in the boat,and the one asking us the questions was straight-forward,but IMO,very rude.We said we had 5 smallies in the livewell and that we were fishing a tournament out of the bay and had to be back by 3:30pm(it is over 30 miles),his response was "Oh,you guys are in a tournament,this will only take a minute or two".About 20 minutes later after warning us about the boat's lettering not being visible from a distance,we were set free.This occurence keeps repeating itself over and over again.I have yet had a single issue with the Canadians(other than the stupid phone call),but this year alone I've been pulled over 7 times by an American craft.They've ranged from the Sheriff's Whaler yesterday,to the Border Patrol,Coast Guard,and 2 different Ohio cities police boats.I'm slowly starting to ask myself this question-which side is really creating the hassle-don't seem to be Canuck to me anymore!
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: LennyB on August 14, 2011, 02:49:59 PM
That's been my experience at the Ambassador Bridge also. Canadian's ask just what they need to know. The last time I came back the kid at the both on the US side had to take a sandwich break before questioning us, then had an issue with me not knowing the plate # on the tow vehicle, then interigated us about the food he thought we had in the cooler we didn't tell him about that actually turned out to be a tackle box. Just a dip shxx. ???
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Skulley on August 15, 2011, 09:45:19 PM
I have to honestly say I have had no problem from either side, Canadian or U.S.  I have an enhanced drivers license and have made the call to CBSA when entering Canadian waters.  Never a problem.  I haven't been approached by any one at all.  You guys must all look suspicious...................


BD                          ;D
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: djkimmel on August 16, 2011, 12:02:00 AM
Just a matter of the 'lucky' draw I expect. I've had a slightly rougher time coming back that going over by land though the time the UK college kid ran into my outboard the US agent stopped asking questions, went and got the kids passport and told me to take him off the side and work out whatever I needed. That was not my favorite day of fishing but at least the agent didn't make it worse. It probably didn't hurt that I was most likely transparent with shock from having my 1 month old outboard being ran into!

I will add to Rick that I cannot tolerate any law officer with a power complex. I've snapped three times in my life in such situations. Cost me one time and the other two times it was a 'draw.' A few other times I kept the steam from escaping my ears and apparently the officer didn't notice my normally pale skin turn fire red ;D
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: grasslakebasspro on August 28, 2011, 07:46:07 PM
Yesterday morning prior to taking off for the Detroit River BFL, I called the Canadian toll free number.  An agent initially answered the phone and he asked where I would be fishing in Canada.  I told him I would be near Peelee Island.  He told me he needed to transfer me to the Windsor office.

The agent in the Windsor office was unsure where Peelee Island was located.  She asked me if I would be near Toronto or the Thousand Islands.  Eventually she felt she had an idea where I was fishing at.

She then asked me for the following:

Boat Registration Number
Boat Color
Inboard or Outboard
My Name and Birthday
Did I have any firearms
Did I have over 10,000 dollars in currency on me
What time did I expect to be off the water.

I had to provide the same information for my co-angler.

She did give me a number to write down and carry with me while in Canadian water.

I was unaware I needed an enhanced Michigan drivers license or a passport with me.  That was never mentioned at the BFL tournament meeting or by the agents I spoke with on the phone.
Title: Re: NEW RULE FOR ENTERING CANADIAN WATER
Post by: Skulley on August 28, 2011, 08:31:00 PM
The enhances license is for returning to the United States from Canada however it is used to identify you as a U.S. citizen.  You are not required to show it unless you are asked for it.  If they want to see it they will ask you to go to one of the Canadian ports of call.  I have never been asked to go to a port of call be it Amhersburg or Colchester or any of the others where I have been near.  As long as you co operate you should have no problems.  I have been calling them everytime I intend to cross the border and have never had a problem.  The worse part about this is sometimes the wait for an answer is a bit too long.  That's where a blue tooth comes in handy.  I don't stop fishing to wait for them to answer.  I just keep going until they do.  Seems that as long as your intentions are good, there are no issues. 


BD                                         ;D