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Author Topic: Gas money for boaters  (Read 23087 times)

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KG

Gas money for boaters
« on: August 31, 2010, 03:23:18 PM »

I know I have seen this discussed before, but I thought I would reintroduce it based on last weekend's BFL. I am just looking for some advice on how much money should be given to a boater for gas, and if the "fishing" for the tournament should dictate at all how much?
I have spoken to a few co-anglers that have recently been asked by the boater for money after not being put on any decent fish, and spending all day bobbing around in the middle of no where. It is my understanding that "gas money" is just a common courtesy, not a requirement? Just looking for some advice thanks.
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smbassman

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 04:13:27 PM »

Gas money for the boater is a requirement.  Results for the day have no bearing on how much, only the distance run to the location chosen to bob around for the day.

Non boaters are not paying for a guaranteed guided trip, they are helping with the expenses for a day of fishing.  Sometimes you catch them, sometimes you don't.  If you review the BFL results for non boaters, you should see that most likely you won't catch them so don't get your hopes up. 
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oldjigger

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2010, 04:44:49 PM »

non boaters should share gas expense.  It doesn't matter if you catch fish or not,  there are no guaranties in fishing.  it depends on how far you run.  bass boats don't get the best mileage at wide open throttle.  probably lucky to get 6 mpg so do the math and help the boater out of it weren't for  him you wouldn't be going
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stratos19ss

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2010, 07:25:15 PM »

No discussion needed here, you pay gas money regardless.  As stated you would not be out there at all without your boater and they should be compensated for gas at the minimum.  Boaters are on the hook for the expense of the boat, maintenance, oil, gas, insurance, etc......  If you want to pick straws you should pay for your use of all of the above and pay the same price you would pay a low grade guide (minimum $200 for the day).  When you hire a guide you tip based on performance but still pay the initial fee.  This is how boaters should be treated and looked at when it comes time to fork over some dough.  Minimum contribution for the day should be $30-$40 and if you have a GREAT day or an extra long run - $60-$80. If you don't want to pay that kind of money for a long run with no guarantee of fish then you need to discuss this with your boater the night BEFORE the tourney at the meeting when you are paired up.  This way all parties have a clear understanding of what is expected.

Just because you are in the back seat does not mean you are entitled to a FREE ride, even if you don't catch them  ;)
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dashaver63

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2010, 09:29:21 PM »

I gave my Pro's $40.00 each day in the Open and didn't catch a thing, didn't really even have time to fish. Not complaining though, I learned a lot from JVD and Art Ferguson III. Those guy's would spend 10 minutes TOPS in an area and move on, just long enough to catch a fish. It was frustrating at the time but I saw first hand the art of deep cranking on St. Clair. So there are no guarantees of catching fish at all, but you still need to do the right thing and help with gas expenses. Thats the thing about being a co-angler that some people don't realize when they sign up, it's the boaters game on the water. The boater has already put in 3 or 4 days of practice to locate and somewhat pattern fish and spent a lot of money doing so while most co's show up the day of the tournament to fish.
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motocross269

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2010, 12:35:41 AM »

When I fish as a Co angler I give my boater somewhere between 40-50 dollars in an envelope with my Cell phone number on it at the pre-tournament meeting...That gets it out of the way and seems to get things off on a good foot right from the start...
Coanglers paying cash should never be based upon success on the water...As stated earlier it isn't a guided trip...
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Durand Dan

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 02:47:03 AM »

I have to agree and respectfully disagree with some of the comments. As I used to participate as a co-angler in some BFL and Stren events I paid an entry fee to fish from the back of the boat. I always paid my boater up front for expenses. However, I also believed I had the right as a contestant to have a chance to fish as it is a contest for both parties. It's of course the owner’s boat and I respect that. But if there is no consideration given to the co-angler than what is the purpose of the event? You can argue that if you had to pay a guide for a day on the water it would cost the same or a little more. But the guide would be your employee on the water and should cater to you. I have given up the co-angler position due to some situations I didn’t consider appropriate and know several others that have taken the same stance. 
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motocross269

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2010, 03:33:56 AM »

I have to agree and respectfully disagree with some of the comments. As I used to participate as a co-angler in some BFL and Stren events I paid an entry fee to fish from the back of the boat. I always paid my boater up front for expenses. However, I also believed I had the right as a contestant to have a chance to fish as it is a contest for both parties. It's of course the owner’s boat and I respect that. But if there is no consideration given to the co-angler than what is the purpose of the event? You can argue that if you had to pay a guide for a day on the water it would cost the same or a little more. But the guide would be your employee on the water and should cater to you. I have given up the co-angler position due to some situations I didn’t consider appropriate and know several others that have taken the same stance.  

Remember the FLW rules clearly state that the Boater can't do anything to impede your chances for success while fishing a tournament...If there is an issue on the water with a Co angler getting back seated or whatever there is grounds for a protest...
Now boaters being uprepared is a tougher case....


Boaters will fish from the front deck of the boat only. Co-anglers will fish from the back deck of the boat only. Boaters will have complete control of boat operation and waters to be fished. Boaters may not request that the co-angler not fish. Any boater that, in the judgment of the tournament director, operates the boat in such a manner that unfairly handicaps their co-angler partner will be disqualified for that day. Boaters paired with boaters will receive equal time in the front of the boat to operate the trolling motor and equal time, including travel, to fish their selected waters
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 03:37:22 AM by motocross269 »
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Durand Dan

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2010, 03:48:01 AM »

Yes, I have read and have an understanding of the rules. I came very close on one occasion to not signing the weight in sheet for a boater, which would have meant his disqualification. That is when I figured it was time to give it up.
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motocross269

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 08:01:28 PM »

Yes, I have read and have an understanding of the rules. I came very close on one occasion to not signing the weight in sheet for a boater, which would have meant his disqualification. That is when I figured it was time to give it up.

I have been pretty lucky with Boater draws.....Probably because I only Co on LSC and Erie....I can imagine things could get ugly on bedding tournaments and inland water...
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dashaver63

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2010, 09:21:44 PM »

Yes, inland water is pretty tough for a co angler. Here in Ohio we call that "first come, first serve" fishing. You really have to pay attention to what your boater is doing and hope he misses some things you might see when going down the bank. Accuracy is vital from the back of the boat, you only get one shot. Bed tourneys are crazy since the nose of the boat is on the beds and all the co is left with is fan casting from the back.
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Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2010, 09:42:16 PM »

Since we are talking LSC events on this thread, because its obvious a full tank is going to be burnt ($70 plus $15 for oil) on these events, hand your boater minimum $30 at 5 am BEFORE you set a rod in his boat.

It sends the clear message that you respect him, his practice time, and are willing to work with him in every way. Next, once on the boat, establish where he wants ANY rubish, food and personals to be stored, ask if he requires that you use a pee container or if you can just go over the side and wash his paint. Go over each others netting practices, one may scoop while you lay it in and let him drag the fish across the net etc ..... Believe it or not, all this breaks the ice, invites respect, and gives you two the chance get a feel for how YOUR day will be. Remember - you can make it an incredible team day or a horror show based on YOUR co angler attitude.

By handing him money before you even accept the keys to drop the boat in, you send the right message.

Mojo
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capt charlie's charters

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Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 11:35:59 PM »

years ago I wrote a letter to the Amer Bass Anglers magazine after having gotten stiffed by more then one co.  Apparently they liked the letter enough to publish most of it in its entirety and yet after all the forums, dock talk, and magazines its still a mystery to co anglers.  Most bass boats (older) average 2-3 mpg, hmm a boater runs from Elizabeth Park to St Clair, around the lake and back and does this for two or three days...you tell me what it cost him (not to mention trailering to and from), why would a co not even have a clue that maybe he should chip in some $$.
I just finished boating for the Big Ten Collegiate Tournament and spelled out for the college anglers in the registration info form, they should chip in at least $40 per day for gas and the benefit of being boated around.  So why is everyone so "duh" in the BFL, why are they afraid to come right out and say it in the FLW forums?
nuff said, capt charlie
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Frank

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Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2010, 12:22:16 AM »

I have heard much debate on this topic for a few years now.  I am thinking about getting into these tournaments next year, and will probably do so as a non boater, though I am still undecided.  I very much agree with paying gas and expenses, as much as needed with no questions asked.  What worries me is everything I hear about getting back boated, or flat out told not to fish. "I'll put you on fish after I have 5".  It sounds like there are a lot of people that are a**holes.  Is that really the case?  Maybe I should just stay inland where everybody seems to get along.  Then again, thats probably because you bring your own partner.

Frank
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djkimmel

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Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2010, 11:43:33 PM »

That is an exaggeration not the real story. I fished for a while as a nonboater and most of my draws were decent, a few were a little less and maybe 1 turd. I've had 4 or 5 nonboaters who made the day less than enjoyable actually (tried anyway, I try not to let that stuff get to me) more so than boaters. But again, most of my co-angler draws have been good to great also over many, many, many years of fishing.

In the BFL, the boater can't tell you not to fish and I hope they never even ask. I sure wouldn't pull that crap though I may ask a co-angler not to throw over my line towards a big fish on a bed that I spent a lot of time finding (I've also often taken turns to be fair too though). The boater has to give you water to fish. Sometimes, it is rougher being a co-angler with no say, but that is a KNOWN part of being a co-angler. It should come as no surprise that you don't get the best casts to the best stuff at times.

Sometimes, the co-angler makes their day worse by worrying and being upset about things not in their control. I've had a few that could have had a much better day if they would have just concentrated on keeping their baits wet instead. I've had some excellent co-anglers who made the most of every single chance no matter how few or many (which can also be a state of mind - how you decide that went).

I've been stiffed a number of times. Sometimes I had an off day and maybe the co-angler felt they had a bad draw...? I've also had off days when the co-angler did great too! Do you think it was the co-angler who worried all day about whether or not they were getting good casts at good stuff or just the co-angler who made the most of every possible chance?

Sometimes, maybe they were just broke, or maybe they really forgot... maybe...? I've had a few who gave me gas money right up front the night before or the morning of. Sends a pretty good message about the kind of day we're going to have. And I've usually had really good days with those anglers too. Go figure.

In tournaments, probably like life, you can often make the day what you will.

Or not.

Now, if the boater says he's running 150 miles and that means I have to pay $100, that's not really fair. Most of the time now, $40 is more than acceptable. Used to be $20, but then, gas was less than 2 bucks a gallon too.

I will give the same exact advice I always give! ALWAYS. ALWAYS have all the discussions about how far your running, what is recommended to bring (life jacket for sure, tackle storage, cooler), is a net available and does the angler want you to net his/her fish or will clearly let you know when, and how much you think is a fair rider fee THE NIGHT BEFORE. Right after the meeting when you first meet, right along with how/when you'll meet in the morning. Works much better and leaves the tournament day for tournament fishing. You'll work more like an impromptu team that way.

And if you do draw someone you think is a turd... well you can still make the most of your day since you will be on the water and even in bedding tournaments, I've seen co-anglers spank the boater on non-spawning bass or deep spawners that are ALWAYS... ALWAYS roaming around nearby.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 11:46:57 PM by djkimmel »
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Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of The Bass Federation of Michigan.

HellaBass

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Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2010, 09:55:50 PM »

I'd say $30-40 mostly depending how big the water is and how far you go
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Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2010, 08:10:19 PM »

I don't really care how much the co offers me for gas - its not really about the money - it is the message that they send when they offer gas $.

It does seem that the "best" co's are the ones that offer in the morning - just seems to get the day started off right. 

I have been stiffed a few times, seems to be about once a year (1 out of 5).  This year, I really think it was just that the guy didn't know any better.  It was his 2nd BFL.  We were on LSC, he had never used a drop shot before and wanted to learn how.  I helped him set it up properly, showed him how to use it.  He ended up with about 15 lbs and should have had more (lost a few before he really figgured it out, jumped a 4+ off, ect).  Had a great day, was totally geeked about drop shot fishing...I have to assume he did know or didn't remember.  Lots going on at weigh in, easy to forget, thats why it is cool to just take care of it in the morning.

As a co, you just have to go with the flow.  Decide ahead of time it will be a good day and it will be.  You won't always catch fish, but you can still learn from the day (even if it is what NOT to do!   ;D  ).

Seth
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MadWags

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Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2010, 10:53:57 PM »

40.00 in advance or no ride.  :o
I take credit cards and personal checks.
25.00 fee for a bounced check. :P


Really I can't believe this is even an issue.
Yeh I got stiffed in the BFLs as well.
Never again.
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River Rat

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2010, 07:43:15 AM »

40.00 in advance or no ride.  :o
I take credit cards and personal checks.
25.00 fee for a bounced check. :P


Really I can't believe this is even an issue.
Yeh I got stiffed in the BFLs as well.
Never again.

If you add a PayPal option you'll be totally set!
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jcox7

Re: Gas money for boaters
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2010, 03:40:33 PM »

First off most of you know me and know that I have fished all levels in the FLW as a boater and a CO.  When we are talking about BFLs then most comments here are good unwritten rules to follow.  Dan you made great points and really explained it the correct way in my eyes.  However I believe the second post first reply said that it is required to give the boater gas money??  NO way as a matter of fact in some states and I am 90% sure Michigan is one it is actually illegal to accept money as a boater for gas unless you are a licensed guide so you are way off base.  That is why the FLW does not have such a rule in play.  This being said when I am a boater I always feel that it is expected for my co to offer I don't think I have ever excepted.  I do not need the extra 40.00 bucks or whatever.  I would of fished the same water no matter who was in my boat and I would of ran the same distance, I hope that my co has a good time and I hope we both catch fish but it sometimes works and it sometimes does not that is part of the game however I shouldn't be out there if I cant afford the gas I used that day.  Yeah boats cost money,oil costs, gas costs, blah blah blah....We all new this when we decided to play the game.  The comments that without the boater the COs wouldn't have a way to fish "bull shoot"  without the cos then the boaters wouldn't be able to fish.  We could all fish without the cos and watch people cheat us out of our own money because no one would be policing the sport and we all know how this works.
I still agree that the cos should offer it is the right thing to do but if they choose not to or they cant then so be it us as boaters should not be expecting cash if you cant afford it without the extra 40.00 then don't fish.
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