Great Lakes Bass Fishing Forum

Tournaments => FLW Fishing => BFL Bass Fishing League => Topic started by: KG on August 31, 2010, 03:23:18 PM

Title: Gas money for boaters
Post by: KG on August 31, 2010, 03:23:18 PM
I know I have seen this discussed before, but I thought I would reintroduce it based on last weekend's BFL. I am just looking for some advice on how much money should be given to a boater for gas, and if the "fishing" for the tournament should dictate at all how much?
I have spoken to a few co-anglers that have recently been asked by the boater for money after not being put on any decent fish, and spending all day bobbing around in the middle of no where. It is my understanding that "gas money" is just a common courtesy, not a requirement? Just looking for some advice thanks.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: smbassman on August 31, 2010, 04:13:27 PM
Gas money for the boater is a requirement.  Results for the day have no bearing on how much, only the distance run to the location chosen to bob around for the day.

Non boaters are not paying for a guaranteed guided trip, they are helping with the expenses for a day of fishing.  Sometimes you catch them, sometimes you don't.  If you review the BFL results for non boaters, you should see that most likely you won't catch them so don't get your hopes up. 
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: oldjigger on August 31, 2010, 04:44:49 PM
non boaters should share gas expense.  It doesn't matter if you catch fish or not,  there are no guaranties in fishing.  it depends on how far you run.  bass boats don't get the best mileage at wide open throttle.  probably lucky to get 6 mpg so do the math and help the boater out of it weren't for  him you wouldn't be going
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: stratos19ss on August 31, 2010, 07:25:15 PM
No discussion needed here, you pay gas money regardless.  As stated you would not be out there at all without your boater and they should be compensated for gas at the minimum.  Boaters are on the hook for the expense of the boat, maintenance, oil, gas, insurance, etc......  If you want to pick straws you should pay for your use of all of the above and pay the same price you would pay a low grade guide (minimum $200 for the day).  When you hire a guide you tip based on performance but still pay the initial fee.  This is how boaters should be treated and looked at when it comes time to fork over some dough.  Minimum contribution for the day should be $30-$40 and if you have a GREAT day or an extra long run - $60-$80. If you don't want to pay that kind of money for a long run with no guarantee of fish then you need to discuss this with your boater the night BEFORE the tourney at the meeting when you are paired up.  This way all parties have a clear understanding of what is expected.

Just because you are in the back seat does not mean you are entitled to a FREE ride, even if you don't catch them  ;)
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: dashaver63 on August 31, 2010, 09:29:21 PM
I gave my Pro's $40.00 each day in the Open and didn't catch a thing, didn't really even have time to fish. Not complaining though, I learned a lot from JVD and Art Ferguson III. Those guy's would spend 10 minutes TOPS in an area and move on, just long enough to catch a fish. It was frustrating at the time but I saw first hand the art of deep cranking on St. Clair. So there are no guarantees of catching fish at all, but you still need to do the right thing and help with gas expenses. Thats the thing about being a co-angler that some people don't realize when they sign up, it's the boaters game on the water. The boater has already put in 3 or 4 days of practice to locate and somewhat pattern fish and spent a lot of money doing so while most co's show up the day of the tournament to fish.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: motocross269 on September 01, 2010, 12:35:41 AM
When I fish as a Co angler I give my boater somewhere between 40-50 dollars in an envelope with my Cell phone number on it at the pre-tournament meeting...That gets it out of the way and seems to get things off on a good foot right from the start...
Coanglers paying cash should never be based upon success on the water...As stated earlier it isn't a guided trip...
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Durand Dan on September 01, 2010, 02:47:03 AM
I have to agree and respectfully disagree with some of the comments. As I used to participate as a co-angler in some BFL and Stren events I paid an entry fee to fish from the back of the boat. I always paid my boater up front for expenses. However, I also believed I had the right as a contestant to have a chance to fish as it is a contest for both parties. It's of course the owner’s boat and I respect that. But if there is no consideration given to the co-angler than what is the purpose of the event? You can argue that if you had to pay a guide for a day on the water it would cost the same or a little more. But the guide would be your employee on the water and should cater to you. I have given up the co-angler position due to some situations I didn’t consider appropriate and know several others that have taken the same stance. 
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: motocross269 on September 01, 2010, 03:33:56 AM
I have to agree and respectfully disagree with some of the comments. As I used to participate as a co-angler in some BFL and Stren events I paid an entry fee to fish from the back of the boat. I always paid my boater up front for expenses. However, I also believed I had the right as a contestant to have a chance to fish as it is a contest for both parties. It's of course the owner’s boat and I respect that. But if there is no consideration given to the co-angler than what is the purpose of the event? You can argue that if you had to pay a guide for a day on the water it would cost the same or a little more. But the guide would be your employee on the water and should cater to you. I have given up the co-angler position due to some situations I didn’t consider appropriate and know several others that have taken the same stance.  

Remember the FLW rules clearly state that the Boater can't do anything to impede your chances for success while fishing a tournament...If there is an issue on the water with a Co angler getting back seated or whatever there is grounds for a protest...
Now boaters being uprepared is a tougher case....


Boaters will fish from the front deck of the boat only. Co-anglers will fish from the back deck of the boat only. Boaters will have complete control of boat operation and waters to be fished. Boaters may not request that the co-angler not fish. Any boater that, in the judgment of the tournament director, operates the boat in such a manner that unfairly handicaps their co-angler partner will be disqualified for that day. Boaters paired with boaters will receive equal time in the front of the boat to operate the trolling motor and equal time, including travel, to fish their selected waters
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Durand Dan on September 01, 2010, 03:48:01 AM
Yes, I have read and have an understanding of the rules. I came very close on one occasion to not signing the weight in sheet for a boater, which would have meant his disqualification. That is when I figured it was time to give it up.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: motocross269 on September 01, 2010, 08:01:28 PM
Yes, I have read and have an understanding of the rules. I came very close on one occasion to not signing the weight in sheet for a boater, which would have meant his disqualification. That is when I figured it was time to give it up.

I have been pretty lucky with Boater draws.....Probably because I only Co on LSC and Erie....I can imagine things could get ugly on bedding tournaments and inland water...
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: dashaver63 on September 01, 2010, 09:21:44 PM
Yes, inland water is pretty tough for a co angler. Here in Ohio we call that "first come, first serve" fishing. You really have to pay attention to what your boater is doing and hope he misses some things you might see when going down the bank. Accuracy is vital from the back of the boat, you only get one shot. Bed tourneys are crazy since the nose of the boat is on the beds and all the co is left with is fan casting from the back.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Mojo on September 06, 2010, 09:42:16 PM
Since we are talking LSC events on this thread, because its obvious a full tank is going to be burnt ($70 plus $15 for oil) on these events, hand your boater minimum $30 at 5 am BEFORE you set a rod in his boat.

It sends the clear message that you respect him, his practice time, and are willing to work with him in every way. Next, once on the boat, establish where he wants ANY rubish, food and personals to be stored, ask if he requires that you use a pee container or if you can just go over the side and wash his paint. Go over each others netting practices, one may scoop while you lay it in and let him drag the fish across the net etc ..... Believe it or not, all this breaks the ice, invites respect, and gives you two the chance get a feel for how YOUR day will be. Remember - you can make it an incredible team day or a horror show based on YOUR co angler attitude.

By handing him money before you even accept the keys to drop the boat in, you send the right message.

Mojo
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: capt charlie's charters on October 14, 2010, 11:35:59 PM
years ago I wrote a letter to the Amer Bass Anglers magazine after having gotten stiffed by more then one co.  Apparently they liked the letter enough to publish most of it in its entirety and yet after all the forums, dock talk, and magazines its still a mystery to co anglers.  Most bass boats (older) average 2-3 mpg, hmm a boater runs from Elizabeth Park to St Clair, around the lake and back and does this for two or three days...you tell me what it cost him (not to mention trailering to and from), why would a co not even have a clue that maybe he should chip in some $$.
I just finished boating for the Big Ten Collegiate Tournament and spelled out for the college anglers in the registration info form, they should chip in at least $40 per day for gas and the benefit of being boated around.  So why is everyone so "duh" in the BFL, why are they afraid to come right out and say it in the FLW forums?
nuff said, capt charlie
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Frank on October 15, 2010, 12:22:16 AM
I have heard much debate on this topic for a few years now.  I am thinking about getting into these tournaments next year, and will probably do so as a non boater, though I am still undecided.  I very much agree with paying gas and expenses, as much as needed with no questions asked.  What worries me is everything I hear about getting back boated, or flat out told not to fish. "I'll put you on fish after I have 5".  It sounds like there are a lot of people that are a**holes.  Is that really the case?  Maybe I should just stay inland where everybody seems to get along.  Then again, thats probably because you bring your own partner.

Frank
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: djkimmel on October 16, 2010, 11:43:33 PM
That is an exaggeration not the real story. I fished for a while as a nonboater and most of my draws were decent, a few were a little less and maybe 1 turd. I've had 4 or 5 nonboaters who made the day less than enjoyable actually (tried anyway, I try not to let that stuff get to me) more so than boaters. But again, most of my co-angler draws have been good to great also over many, many, many years of fishing.

In the BFL, the boater can't tell you not to fish and I hope they never even ask. I sure wouldn't pull that crap though I may ask a co-angler not to throw over my line towards a big fish on a bed that I spent a lot of time finding (I've also often taken turns to be fair too though). The boater has to give you water to fish. Sometimes, it is rougher being a co-angler with no say, but that is a KNOWN part of being a co-angler. It should come as no surprise that you don't get the best casts to the best stuff at times.

Sometimes, the co-angler makes their day worse by worrying and being upset about things not in their control. I've had a few that could have had a much better day if they would have just concentrated on keeping their baits wet instead. I've had some excellent co-anglers who made the most of every single chance no matter how few or many (which can also be a state of mind - how you decide that went).

I've been stiffed a number of times. Sometimes I had an off day and maybe the co-angler felt they had a bad draw...? I've also had off days when the co-angler did great too! Do you think it was the co-angler who worried all day about whether or not they were getting good casts at good stuff or just the co-angler who made the most of every possible chance?

Sometimes, maybe they were just broke, or maybe they really forgot... maybe...? I've had a few who gave me gas money right up front the night before or the morning of. Sends a pretty good message about the kind of day we're going to have. And I've usually had really good days with those anglers too. Go figure.

In tournaments, probably like life, you can often make the day what you will.

Or not.

Now, if the boater says he's running 150 miles and that means I have to pay $100, that's not really fair. Most of the time now, $40 is more than acceptable. Used to be $20, but then, gas was less than 2 bucks a gallon too.

I will give the same exact advice I always give! ALWAYS. ALWAYS have all the discussions about how far your running, what is recommended to bring (life jacket for sure, tackle storage, cooler), is a net available and does the angler want you to net his/her fish or will clearly let you know when, and how much you think is a fair rider fee THE NIGHT BEFORE. Right after the meeting when you first meet, right along with how/when you'll meet in the morning. Works much better and leaves the tournament day for tournament fishing. You'll work more like an impromptu team that way.

And if you do draw someone you think is a turd... well you can still make the most of your day since you will be on the water and even in bedding tournaments, I've seen co-anglers spank the boater on non-spawning bass or deep spawners that are ALWAYS... ALWAYS roaming around nearby.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: HellaBass on October 18, 2010, 09:55:50 PM
I'd say $30-40 mostly depending how big the water is and how far you go
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: SethV on October 19, 2010, 08:10:19 PM
I don't really care how much the co offers me for gas - its not really about the money - it is the message that they send when they offer gas $.

It does seem that the "best" co's are the ones that offer in the morning - just seems to get the day started off right. 

I have been stiffed a few times, seems to be about once a year (1 out of 5).  This year, I really think it was just that the guy didn't know any better.  It was his 2nd BFL.  We were on LSC, he had never used a drop shot before and wanted to learn how.  I helped him set it up properly, showed him how to use it.  He ended up with about 15 lbs and should have had more (lost a few before he really figgured it out, jumped a 4+ off, ect).  Had a great day, was totally geeked about drop shot fishing...I have to assume he did know or didn't remember.  Lots going on at weigh in, easy to forget, thats why it is cool to just take care of it in the morning.

As a co, you just have to go with the flow.  Decide ahead of time it will be a good day and it will be.  You won't always catch fish, but you can still learn from the day (even if it is what NOT to do!   ;D  ).

Seth
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: MadWags on October 19, 2010, 10:53:57 PM
40.00 in advance or no ride.  :o
I take credit cards and personal checks.
25.00 fee for a bounced check. :P


Really I can't believe this is even an issue.
Yeh I got stiffed in the BFLs as well.
Never again.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: River Rat on October 20, 2010, 07:43:15 AM
40.00 in advance or no ride.  :o
I take credit cards and personal checks.
25.00 fee for a bounced check. :P


Really I can't believe this is even an issue.
Yeh I got stiffed in the BFLs as well.
Never again.

If you add a PayPal option you'll be totally set!
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: jcox7 on October 20, 2010, 03:40:33 PM
First off most of you know me and know that I have fished all levels in the FLW as a boater and a CO.  When we are talking about BFLs then most comments here are good unwritten rules to follow.  Dan you made great points and really explained it the correct way in my eyes.  However I believe the second post first reply said that it is required to give the boater gas money??  NO way as a matter of fact in some states and I am 90% sure Michigan is one it is actually illegal to accept money as a boater for gas unless you are a licensed guide so you are way off base.  That is why the FLW does not have such a rule in play.  This being said when I am a boater I always feel that it is expected for my co to offer I don't think I have ever excepted.  I do not need the extra 40.00 bucks or whatever.  I would of fished the same water no matter who was in my boat and I would of ran the same distance, I hope that my co has a good time and I hope we both catch fish but it sometimes works and it sometimes does not that is part of the game however I shouldn't be out there if I cant afford the gas I used that day.  Yeah boats cost money,oil costs, gas costs, blah blah blah....We all new this when we decided to play the game.  The comments that without the boater the COs wouldn't have a way to fish "bull shoot"  without the cos then the boaters wouldn't be able to fish.  We could all fish without the cos and watch people cheat us out of our own money because no one would be policing the sport and we all know how this works.
I still agree that the cos should offer it is the right thing to do but if they choose not to or they cant then so be it us as boaters should not be expecting cash if you cant afford it without the extra 40.00 then don't fish.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: MadWags on October 20, 2010, 04:08:57 PM
I don't. Haven't fished a BFL in years. Fish team tournaments and split all costs. Don't need no CO waypointing all my chit, and your right I am not a charter captain, so I am not going to take an uninvited guest fishing for a day for free. LOL! ;D

No seriously your right it doesn't make or break the deal, but why should a CO ask such a question. Pony up bro and do the right thing. ::)
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: motocross269 on October 20, 2010, 11:48:59 PM
I think paying the night before sets the tone....I also offer to buy the Ice and pay any launch fees...I think it just sends a message to the boater that you respect his equipment and the time that he put into prefishing...At least for BFLs...

I have fished with some Cos that were college kids, retired or laid off and I refuse money from them..I would rather have them be able to get out and fish more...

Wags...What is really bad is when your boater doesn't have much and the Co angler has to cough up some coordinates to get a shot at a check...That happens and it is like selling your soul sometimes....So it goes both ways...It is pretty tough to get boaters to erase the trails and waypoints at the end of the day..

I would think it would be pretty hard for a Co to steal waypoints unless he has a handheld hidden in his shorts or something.. ;D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: MadWags on October 21, 2010, 06:33:32 AM
I agree.

I once made a guy strip before I let him in my boat. ;D
Chuckled when I saw the Argile Socks. :D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: TCook on October 21, 2010, 09:46:31 AM
I have heard about COs waypointing there boaters stuff in bfls sneaking around with there handhelds or cell phones that have GPS. That is complete BS if you ask me and they should be thrown in the lake if caught, all the money and time a boater spends to find spots you should respect that. As far as Gas money I know its not the way it should be done but I like to wait til the end of the day because there is always the chance I get a guy who backends me or fishes beds all day which really hurts your chances at catching fish, and if thats how the day plays out you ain't getting a dime from me. I understand the money they spent to find fish but if the boater tries to keep you off his fish why contribute to his costs? COs have expenses and entry fees too and the last thing we want is to drive across the state, pay for hotel rooms, licenses, food, just to draw a selfish boater who can really decrease your chances from doing well. Luckily I have not drawn a boater like this yet but it can happen and I always give gas money at the end of the day. Hopefully next year will be my last as a Co and the shoe will be on the other foot...
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: djkimmel on October 29, 2010, 07:01:22 PM
In Michigan, last time I checked with MDNRE Law Division (a while ago), it is technically illegal to accept money or anything of value for taking someone fishing unless you are a licensed guide/charter captain. The odds that they'll show up at a draw tournament to enforce this over our rider fees - that they are aware of to some degree - are pretty low.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: motocross269 on October 29, 2010, 08:06:56 PM
In Michigan, last time I checked with MDNRE Law Division (a while ago), it is technically illegal to accept money or anything of value for taking someone fishing unless you are a licensed guide/charter captain. The odds that they'll show up at a draw tournament to enforce this over our rider fees - that they are aware of to some degree - are pretty low.

I thinking splitting gas expenses is stretching that law some....
It would be like saying that I can't give my buddy Gas money for his truck if he drives us to a tournament because he doesn't have a chauffers license or is not a licensed Taxi.....
I find it hard to believe that a Judge would throw the book at someone that gave his boater 40 bucks to cover gas..I guess in todays world you never know though...
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: djkimmel on October 30, 2010, 01:45:45 AM
I doubt if it would ever happen but I specifically asked a Lansing CO about a buddy giving his fishing partner gas money and he said yes, technically illegal. That is not exactly why the regulations where made, but in the early days of the Great Lakes salmon craze, everyone is a boat was acting like they were a charter captain, but avoiding the cost of licensing by trading for the day of fishing. That's why I was told it says anything of value, not just money. I haven't checked on this in a few years, but I haven't seen anything about any changes either.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: ROI Outdoors on November 01, 2010, 03:32:36 AM
I doubt if it would ever happen but I specifically asked a Lansing CO about a buddy giving his fishing partner gas money and he said yes, technically illegal. That is not exactly why the regulations where made, but in the early days of the Great Lakes salmon craze, everyone is a boat was acting like they were a charter captain, but avoiding the cost of licensing by trading for the day of fishing. That's why I was told it says anything of value, not just money. I haven't checked on this in a few years, but I haven't seen anything about any changes either.

This is simply another example that supports the fact that Michigan has been in a legislative coma from a fisheries regulatory standpoint since the 1970's - the good thing about this condition is it is self-induced so we can wake MI up from this coma whenever we decide to bring some Starbucks or a few Red Bull's to our freinds in Lansing.  I have "technically" broken this law countless times over the past decade; come to think of it I did today because I gave Waterfowl a bag of Sun Chips, some Lay's Sour Cream & Onion potato chips, and 2 chili dogs from Yesterdog's for taking his boat out today - I think we all better go out and get our Captain's licenses so when we act like respectful human beings we don't have to feel like outlaws and violators of these common sense policies.......

It shouldn't take Think-Tanks or Congressional Oversight Commitees to change or update this sort of thing but that seems to be the prevailing attitude/perception most have and could quite possibly even be the reality we are currently faced with; fortunately for us Tuesday night will become the beginning of what should be a new reality here in Michigan.  All it will take is a few business minded folks with a shred of common sense working in Lansing to put the "Great" back in the Great Lakes State.

We need to start taking advantage of our geography & natural resources as well as stop trying to please those organizations whom only want to please themselves and their agendas.  Not naming names but I bet most of us on this site know who they are - there are way more of us than there are of them so lets start putting those numbers to work for everyone here.  In my opinion there will be a plethora of legislative/policy changes to our fisheries regulations in the very near future - we might even finally adopt a real management strategy for Bass seeing as they are by far the most targeted species by well over 30% of Michigan's licensed anglers.  Think of how many more steelhead the state could pay for more guys to snag them while they are trying to naturally sustain themselves during their spring spawn..............if they allowed us to have tourneys in April and May - the revenue generating jugernuat could finally be unleashed to the state with most diverse and abundant bass fisheries in the world.  Who knows maybe we'll even have a release boat that resides full-time here paid for by all the non-residents coming up to fish St. Clair the 1st week of April.

Were we discussing gas money?  My bad I get a little sidetracked from time to time......
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Waterfoul on November 01, 2010, 09:57:31 PM
A "LITTLE" sidetracked????   ;)
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: McCarter on November 02, 2010, 12:16:19 AM
this issue comes up alot.  why not put pressure on FLW or BASS to just decrease the "pro" entry fee by $40 and increase the "co" entry fee by $40.  then everyone will be happy ::)

Cartwheel has spoken!
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: UAWBigDog on November 02, 2010, 10:14:55 AM
In my club rider's pay $30 for inland lakes and $40 for big water.  Figure gas and oil for both tow vehicle and boat.  Depending on how far you go and wear and tear usually dictates the cost.  Very fair with the prices for petroleum these days.


BD             ;D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: MadWags on November 02, 2010, 09:20:14 PM
 ;)
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: travisx15 on December 30, 2010, 01:41:13 PM
i was going to fish some 2011 flw bfl events as a co but after reading these post i don't want to get stuck in a boat with some jerk. from what i have read about the bfl so far is boaters need a co and co need boaters. you boaters act like co owe you something. if your co didn't give you gas money they didn't know the unwritten rules of fishing or maybe you were a jerk. i would as a co give a min. of $20 (flw website says give $20). if the boater let me use some of his soft plastics (flw tips for not bringing to much stuff bring terminal tackle and basic colors the boater will have a large selection of plastics) or gave me tips and helped me out i would want to help them out more by throwing the boater $50 - $75 or $100 on a long trip. if boaters stop crying over "he didn't give me money in the morning" maybe you would get more money at the end of the day. my tips for boaters stop sounding like jerks on forums. I'm sure many co have no problem paying gas money but why should a co give you gas money for a bad experience.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: djkimmel on December 30, 2010, 04:02:56 PM
Well, calling people you probably don't know a jerk also doesn't help very much. Who wants to be known as 'the co-angler who thinks all boaters are jerks?' And what boater would want to fish with him/her?

This particular discussion is about everyone's opinion on what is fair and what is not fair between boaters and co-anglers. Most boaters are nice guys and gals trying to fish, have fun and do well too. I think many are saying the attitude you start with can dictate how the day goes, so a more positive attitude is very important to the success of the boater and the co-angler's day. I guaranty that a confrontational or negative attitude will put a damper on the experience every time. It will probably guaranty the day doesn't go well, which many feel should not have an impact on how much the day costs. It still costs the same.

I wouldn't give up on fishing the BFL just from reading peoples' opinions. Part of the purpose of this site is so people can share their opinions. Preferably without name-calling and respecting that we do have different opinions. We should all be able to behave in an adult manner regardless of whether or not we agree 100% or even 10% with each others' opinions.

This is one of my main tenets for being a productive and successful member of this website. Listen and respect each others' opinions. You can disagree without resorting to a name-calling attitude. You can get farther in tournaments and life too, by approaching things differently.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: UAWBigDog on December 30, 2010, 04:32:57 PM
Well, calling people you probably don't know a jerk also doesn't help very much. Who wants to be known as 'the co-angler who thinks all boaters are jerks?' And what boater would want to fish with him/her?

This particular discussion is about everyone's opinion on what is fair and what is not fair between boaters and co-anglers. Most boaters are nice guys and gals trying to fish, have fun and do well too. I think many are saying the attitude you start with can dictate how the day goes, so a more positive attitude is very important to the success of the boater and the co-angler's day. I guaranty that a confrontational or negative attitude will put a damper on the experience every time. It will probably guaranty the day doesn't go well, which many feel should not have an impact on how much the day costs. It still costs the same.

I wouldn't give up on fishing the BFL just from reading peoples' opinions. Part of the purpose of this site is so people can share their opinions. Preferably without name-calling and respecting that we do have different opinions. We should all be able to behave in an adult manner regardless of whether or not we agree 100% or even 10% with each others' opinions.

This is one of my main tenets for being a productive and successful member of this website. Listen and respect each others' opinions. You can disagree without resorting to a name-calling attitude. You can get farther in tournaments and life too, by approaching things differently.

Well said DK.  Mr. Travis has only posted for the second time on this forum.  Not exactly what I would call a "good start".  Right now I am thinking that he is what he called us boaters......however I have to give him the benefit of the doubt and tell him that if he does not own a boat, he should go out and buy one so he can then understand what we as boaters have to persevere.  I was a non-boater for an awfully long time.  Then I decided to buy a boat.  I have owned several boats since.  I have not forgotten where I came from and there are frustrations from both sides of the fence on this subject.  The bottom line is what DK said in his most recent post which I of course highlighted at the beginning of this one.  Besides, no matter where you go, or what you do, or who you talk to, associate with, or whatever, you are going to run into a jerk now and then. Plus we can all face the fact that every now and then any one of us can be a jerk also. I have been known to be a jerk depending on the issue or subject and how strongly I feel about said issue or subject.  It's just human nature.  No one can admittedly say that they have never been a jerk.  That is just the way life is.  Just my two cents.


BD                ;D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: SethV on December 30, 2010, 07:12:54 PM
i was going to fish some 2011 flw bfl events as a co but after reading these post i don't want to get stuck in a boat with some jerk.

Hey Trav,  since you won't be going as a co, I look forward to seeing you on the boater side!    :-*

Seth
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: jim 2row on December 30, 2010, 09:01:44 PM
Ill be honest, alot of this is why I fish for fun anymore. No drama. No getting mad. Fishing is my time. I do plan on fishing open tournaments, but the cool thing about that is I take who I want. That being said,I think I lose out on learning things from other people and getting better.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: djkimmel on December 31, 2010, 01:18:45 AM
There's always some give and take.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: UAWBigDog on December 31, 2010, 01:17:35 PM
Ill be honest, alot of this is why I fish for fun anymore. No drama. No getting mad. Fishing is my time. I do plan on fishing open tournaments, but the cool thing about that is I take who I want. That being said,I think I lose out on learning things from other people and getting better.

I have got to agree with this.  Over the years I have fished less tournaments with others aside from my family.  I have actually fished more with persons who have the same things in common with me.  In other words, I use fishing to relieve the stress from my regular job.  There is a high stress factor there and fishing has helped me be a more calm and collected individual.  It also helps me to concentrate on what is important in my life.  That is why I fish more alone at times than I do with a partner.  Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy fishing with others, however fishing for fun is what it's all about in the first place.  After all, if you're not having fun, what are you having??

BD                ;D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: dartag on December 31, 2010, 02:56:29 PM
Amazing how this topic comes up every year.  Not only on this board but others as well. 
In the old days it was the Drop Shotting thread.  Guess we have to have something to talk about all winter.   Seth is right.  Buy a boat pay the entry fee and all other expenses. 

Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: travisx15 on December 31, 2010, 07:59:42 PM
sorry boaters, my point was not made i just want to say this should be fun. boaters and non boaters need each other. we should help each other out. dont get mad at someone for not knowing they need to pay gas money. this website is a great tool to learn how to get into this sport. i bet a lot of newcomers dont know some of this stuff and dont take the time to research stuff like gas money. maybe instead of gas money for boaters there should be a welcome to the sport/tips for new co-anglers about what to expect. a simple you should give $50 to the boat owner before you start, to help out with his costs is a cool thing to do and a way to make friends instead of listing all your expenses and saying they better pay and pay now.
what i would like to know is what rods and what tackle should i bring.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Mojo on January 23, 2011, 01:16:29 AM
boaters and non boaters need each other. dont get mad at someone for not knowing they need to pay gas money. i bet a lot of newcomers dont know some of this stuff and dont take the time to research stuff like gas money. maybe instead of gas money for boaters there should be a welcome to the sport/tips for new co-anglers about what to expect. a simple you should give $50 to the boat owner before you start, to help out with his costs is a cool thing to do and a way to make friends instead of listing all your expenses and saying they better pay and pay now.

What worries me here TRAV (may I call you TRAV) is there are 3 pages of some really, I mean really good input here..... From expectant and non-expectant boaters to non-boaters who learned to pay at first light or pay at the end of the day.  3 pages of solid ettique input from some of the more renouned fishermen of the Great Lakes ...... and you didnt hear em.

Fact: BFL boaters spend (above what you spent)  $80 on practice, $20 due to poor gas mileage hauling a boat, $6 - $10 on ramp fees and $80 on tournament day MINIMUM  - to "get you on fish". He's $200 under and ppl wonder why they get grumpy when you treat him like a service. I'd advise going back and re-reading this thread, sit back and absorb this thought:

"Nearly every boater is deeply connected to their rig, and these tournaments are structured that they have to accept perfect strangers into their home for 8 hours". You are only there to sign his card stating he didnt cheat. He doesnt need you for anything else, not a friendship, not to give you lures. So if anything better occurs, its gravy for you. And only YOU will determine how much  you gain (from tips up to great friendships) each time you enter their home".

Mojo
 
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: MadWags on January 23, 2011, 10:20:00 AM
My man Mojo! ;)

I must say that when I did fish BFL's I always treated my co-anglers with the utmost respect. I always tried to make sure they caught fish and never front ended any co. More than one on this site can attest to that. More often that not my co-anglers had good success and many cashed a check.

Now that's just me. I know that there are anglers out there who operate differently, but that is part of the game of being a co and you must accept that because you know it going into the deal.
Mojo is correct and has his facts in order.

The other option is to fish team circuits where you know your fellow angler and can work out the expenses prior. You and your partner can work together to catch your fish.

But if you are going to fish the BFLs don't expect your angler to put you on fish or to be concerned about your standings. Without these expectations you may be pleasantly surprised when your boater tries to help you out.

That all being said, you should always give your boater gas money, because as a co-angler it is the right thing to do. If you don't, you may soon have a bad reputation as a co just as some have a bad reputation as a boater for things already discussed.

And when you read my posts in the future, please realize that I am the forum clown. ;D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Frank on January 23, 2011, 06:34:27 PM
I have to admit, when I take Mojo out on my baot he always tries to give me gas money.  I always decline.  We went out on a little lake next to our houses for 2 hours or so.  He hands me a 10 or a 20 for gas.  I explained that we came to the lake with 3 gallons of gas, we now have 2.95 gallons of gas.  It was also almost a 2 mile drive to get to the lake, wich is another 1/6 gallon of gas.  But I did drink his beer, way worth it.
We did however go out to Kent for a tourney and that would have made complete sense to accept the gas money, it is a long drive.  Had my boat motor not died at the launch, we would have even used boat gas.
But, as a boater of a little boat that doesnt use much gas, it is really nice to be offered gas money or whatever because I do spend a lot of time working at keeping the boat clean and running.  This includes buying a new swivel seat for the back, which I don't use. 
I might try fishing one of those tourneys as a non boater this year.  I think after listening to, and fishing with Mojo, I know whats excpected of me and I will make sure not to dissappoint my boater.  I'm just happy to be out there on a boat big enough that I'm not going to drown.

Frank
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: River Rat on January 31, 2011, 09:04:05 AM
Do NOT ask Mojo how much gear to bring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Bad example!!!!!!! ;D

Scott

Sorry Mikey, couldn't resist..... :-*
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: MadWags on January 31, 2011, 10:12:45 AM
By the time your ready to move to another spot, the back of the boat looks like someone tipped over a rod display at BassPro. :o ;D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: t-bone on January 31, 2011, 12:24:25 PM
So Mojo is really just paying for the "over 50lb weight limit" on his gear.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: capt charlie's charters on January 31, 2011, 08:24:09 PM
well mr trav, my man T-bone can tell you some horror stories as a first year co and why he'll probably wait until he's comfortable enough with going as a boater.  Many boaters (myself included) started as a co, in my case I didn't have the knowledge with the big waters and felt it would be unfair to subject another angler to my ingnorance.  Well after a couple of years and drawing some phenomanol sticks I entered the waters as a boater.  Had some great practices and some horrible tournaments, 2009 four of my co's cashed a check and I didn't even come close...great guide, lousy fisherman.  Entering the BFL as a co is no guarantee your going to draw a great fisherman, but I've met and made some friends that would never had entered my life otherwise.
My practice is to discuss with my co the night we meet exactly what I have planned and that I'am open to suggestions should my expectations fall short.  5 - 6 rods and a minimum of tackle, your not going to go through every bag and box you bring, ain't gonna happen.  Respect the boat, be honest if your not able to back a trailer up, you can always hold the rope.  $40 is a min with the waters that are fished, enjoy yourself, try to learn something from the experience.
capt charlie   
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Mojo on February 02, 2011, 11:49:34 AM
So Mojo is really just paying for the "over 50lb weight limit" on his gear.

 ;D ;D uhhh....... guilty to charges as read ...... including the BPS rod display ....I am NOT the guy to ask when it comes to bringing minimal gear.....but hey ....... how many times can yo say in a BFL that when the coangler (me) gets on a bite, that the Coangler can throw plastics and cranks up to the front of the boat to help out the Boater .... happened on 3 of my 5 events ... having the premium gear at my finger tips means I NEVER have to ask (but I will beg when Im getting spanked) for a hot bait !  ;D ;D





Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Frank on February 02, 2011, 01:46:42 PM
Im actually amazed... You guys consider Mojo messy?  I actually went out and got a few lure wraps and rod covers because i was intrigued by how organized he is.  I always wonder when i pull up to the weigh in if some of those guys even fished out of their sparkly clean boat.  I'm gonna take some pictures of my boat before, then after opening day tourney on Pontiac lake.  8 hours, 2 guys, 15 rods, 4 tackle bags, a cooler, A trolling motor thats WAY to big, a net which is only there to catch errant treble hooks, and we pack it all into 15 feet of boat.  It looks like a yard sale.

Frank
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: jim 2row on February 02, 2011, 04:01:21 PM
I also have alot of buddies that are co anglers that prefish several times out of there boat. So Mojo I dont think its like the boater is the only one with cost. Alot of these guys are unsure about one thing or another I think and thats why they are co anglers.  I have quite a few guys I know who have been out with Trombly, Wagner, Said and these guys tried real hard to put there co anglers on fish even when they wanted to get there kicker. Think that is the way it should be myself, but no big deal to me cause if I ever decide to fish a bfl I would try the boater side. Just alot of different ideas on here on what is to be expected and I think its just one of those things you have to feel out on that day with that person.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Colin Linton on February 02, 2011, 06:48:29 PM
Interesting read  :)

This is a universal question that has similar response.  The normal practice over here (Australia) is to offer your boater/s fuel money.  With the size of our lakes somewhat smaller than yours, $20 is seen as fair!  However with fuel prices here $5.00+ a gallon at the moment this may change. 

I guess at the end of the day it's the right thing to do.

An outsiders view on a common question!

Regards and Thanks
Colin
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Mojo on February 02, 2011, 11:50:58 PM
Interesting read  :)

I guess at the end of the day it's the right thing to do.
An outsiders view on a common question!
Regards and Thanks
Colin


Glad to have you peek in from so far away ! What you  are observing here are some great folks fishing on one of greatest bodies of water in the world, Lake St Clair and Erie, and theres more than enough fish to go around for everyone. And even though there is 430 sq miles on LSC and 9940 sq miles on lake erie, the small mouth (and largemouth) community is pretty tight.
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Colin Linton on February 03, 2011, 02:44:29 AM
Thanks Mojo,

I was lucky enough to be invited to this forum by Mr Mike Smith and am sure glad he did!  This forum is like your lakes is HUGE  :o and it will take me a while to get through. 

This particular topic interested me as it is something that has been discussed at length on our forums here at home. 

As for the members on this forum you are right, I was welcomed from the very first post I made and my hope is to one day fish the very waters of which you speak. 

Till that happens I will continue to read with interest and offer my opinion or knowledge where I can. 

Thanks again!
Colin   
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: capt charlie's charters on February 03, 2011, 10:30:49 PM
greetings Colin, great to hear from someone so far with our same interests.  Australia having been one of the countries I've always wanted to visit along with New Zealand.  If your able to make it up this way, I'm sure there would be no shortage of boaters interested in showng off our waters.

Would love to hear what types of fresh waters and fish you have to pursue.

charlie
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: UAWBigDog on February 03, 2011, 10:36:36 PM
I have had Mojo as a back boater.  One of the best I have ever fished with.  I think his lunch box is bigger than his tackle box.  He brings enough food to feed an army.  It is a wonder that guy doesn't put on any weight.  I gain 10 to 15 pounds every time he has been my back boater.  He pays gas up front and has the biggest lunch box.  I don't care how much tackle he brings as long as he brings that lunch box.  My kind of back boater.  Kudos Mojo!!!


BD                       ;D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: MadWags on February 03, 2011, 11:32:01 PM
darn I have missed out on the lunch but the bourbon has been more than satisfying. ;D
Title: Re: Gas money for boaters
Post by: Colin Linton on February 04, 2011, 01:46:53 AM
greetings Colin, great to hear from someone so far with our same interests.  Australia having been one of the countries I've always wanted to visit along with New Zealand.  If your able to make it up this way, I'm sure there would be no shortage of boaters interested in showng off our waters.

Would love to hear what types of fresh waters and fish you have to pursue.

charlie

Thanks Charlie,

I am currently drafting up a post for the forum to give everyone an idea on the fishing in Australia!  Techniques, Gear, Fish and Tournaments etc. 

Most sought after species in Australia (Freshwater) would have to be the Barramundi.  Australian Bass are very popular (pictured in my profile)  however I will not rabble here too much now.  I will endeavour to get some of the info up before the end of the weekend.

Stay tuned  ;D

Cheers
Colin