Paw Paw Lake weed kill

[Dan]

Dan do you mind if I attach your knowledgeable reply to my letter to our association who is holding a meeting this Saturday to approve an assessment to pay for weed killing?

[skeeterman190]

 Mr.Kimmel you are a knowlegeable man and im am glad that you post on things like these. It really sounds as though we are fighting a losing battle. We need more power to prove OUR side of the point. would you think that a lawyer would be a good idea?? Its not going to make them change there minds even if 1000 fisherman show up from the area. John Gipson Jr. made some good ideas on SouthwestMichigan.com. But i would think that PETA would be the last resort! i dont want my name anyway associated with them. Im a firm believer in hunting and fishing. and dont think any idea that those people have is worth a second of my time!(im not even gonna comment on that one. i could go on for hours and it wouldnt be pretty)!  I hope that we can all come to an agreement that this is a huge blow to that lake. I guess they just dont understand how good of a lake that they have there!-skeeterman-

[TCook]

Paw Paw is the best Largemouth lake I have ever fished in MI maybe even better than White Lake. This needs to be prevented at all cost. If all other avenues fail I will have to chain Herman and Phil up seperatly at both ramps blocking there death spraying machine from dumping in. This might last a few days but no worries guys, I will check in a couple times a day with some table scraps, energy drinks, and smokes.
Who knows Kent Lake could be next, and I doubt that would float with most of you guys on this board. Just a matter of time before the next community sees how others dealt with weed problems and follows suit. By the way Paw Paw's weed growth and water clarity is average compared to MI lakes.

T

[McCarter]

Who knows Kent Lake could be next, and I doubt that would float with most of you guys on this board.

for the last 3 years, they have destroyed kent lake as far as weeds are concerned.  it has got progressively worse every year with last year being the worst i have seen.  the real kicker here is that there are no houses on the lake who are they doing it for?  there is a no wake law on the lake so there are no pleasure boaters, tubers, or jet skiier.  just a few sail boats, canoes and kayaks, and fisherman.  perhaps the best time of the year to catch really big largemouth is in the summertime when the weeds grow up and canopy the many stump flats on the lake.  i was just keying into this pattern and was able to win a few tournaments and cash a few checks fishing the pitching/flipping pattern out there.  and then they killed litereally every major weedbed out there.  drives me nuts.  the fishing out there in the early summer through late summer is extremely tough now and the smallies are near impossible to pattern after they spawn.  we found a small cluster of weeds about 6 ft diameter behind a main lake hump last year and caught over 20 smallmouth from it in about 3 hours.  all keeper and about half being very respectable fish over 3 lbs.  unfortunatly, that clump died about a week later.  couldnt pattern the smallies for about a month when the water started cooling down again.  i hate the weed kills. 

McCarter himself

[djkimmel]

Dan do you mind if I attach your knowledgeable reply to my letter to our association who is holding a meeting this Saturday to approve an assessment to pay for weed killing?

No. Maybe leave out the parts about why and who split the MDNR into the DEQ since that has no direct bearing on the issue at hand. That is meant to be historical information for everyone who visits here to understand the challenges in this issue better. How things have come to this with the use of fluridone and the seeming ease of which so many lake associations get approval for large scale aquatic plant killing.

Part of the issue has always been that anglers and hunters have historically have not been as organized and persistent as lake associations - who have a built-in advantage over us already. But when we do get organized and make a smart, persistent effort, we can be successful. Usually, at least winning acceptable compromises.

[djkimmel]

I don't know what Gipson wrote on that other web site, but I can't think of ANY reason we would ever want to work together with PETA. Their primary goal is completely against our entire purpose. We don't need them. There are others we can possibly partner with. MUCC is always a good possibility.

Phil - NEVER say never. I have seen so many times what a few determined persons with a little knowledge and persistence can accomplish. The majority of the times nothing was accomplished, it was because only 1 or 2 persons tried just a little and too late.

If we all quit every time someone said things were impossible, or it will never happen, that would be the only thing to guaranty nothing would ever change or happen. I can think of so many times I personally was told things were impossible or would never happen - changing the bass season for example. That one alone I was told numerous times "would never happen in a million years."

Persistence, with some knowledge and dedication, does pay off. Maybe not all the time. And maybe not often completely what you want. But often enough, if you try sometimes you get what you need.

[TCook]

Well I am sad to say I just found out my favorite local lake and where I started tournament fishing (Paw Paw lake) is scheduled to have a full lake eradication of milfoil using sonar in 1 to 2 weeks. Not sure how I didn't hear about this sooner but apparently the lake house owners got enough votes and its a done deal. This is the end of a great fishery the massive amounts of this chemical they are about to spray in this lake will deplete the oxygen poisen the fish and it will likely look like a blackened cess pool for years to come. I have seen the effects on manitou in Indiana about a year after they did this treatment there. It will never be the same again and a sad day for us who fished this great lake.

[TCook]

Oh and screw the out of season crap Im going fishing there as much as I can in the next two weeks before its ruined. And I like how they are going to spray just in time for the spawn I think im gonna be sick!

[djkimmel]

The problem is always the same - no one votes to be the person to establish new fish cover. The weed killer is just going to kill the weeds. Whomever they consulted will say something like, "we'll let the 'natural' cover that was 'drowned out' by the milfoil grow back." But will someone be out there making sure that happens? Probably not. They should actually plant appropriate replacement aquatic plants or other habitat and then take the care and expense to make sure it replaces the killed fish habitat. They pretty much never do that.

If you go to one of these meetings and ask about this idea, everyone usually looks at you like you're daft. I think the person considering the 'how do we place all this lost fish habitat' question is the only person who isn't daft - the only person who seems to remember it is a LAKE not a swimming pool. Hate to see lakes turned into big mud puddles by people who want a swimming pool they aren't going to get anyway.

Find out if anyone there has any idea of a plan for habitat recovery. A real plan, not a the old 'wait for the natural weeds to grow back on their own' idea that usually doesn't work out. Check out Spring Lake or the North Bay on Houghton Lake for great examples of how that 'plan' doesn't work.

[Genie]

Dan Kimmel for president!

[djkimmel]

Cut back on the coffee!

[rkillick]

i guess i need to get out there too.. fished it for the first time last year and caught some really good fish too bad..

[TCook]

Doug Hannon on the effects of SONAR

[bsimpson]

It may be just semantics, but I've always referred to weeds in the water as aquatic vegetation NOT weeds.  To me, weeds are undesirable and a nuisance, while vegetation is desirable and good.  Having used to run political campaigns full time for a living, trust me, how we describe things can make a big difference - for example, politicians don't talk about wanting to raise taxes, instead they say they want to increase revenue.

[djkimmel]

That's good. I try to remember aquatic plants too but so many people just call it weeds, or farther south - grass. Semantics can make a difference. We should consider that if anyone wants to start tackling all these plant killers. There are so many meetings that happen locally where an angler's voice is rarely, if ever heard.

[MSURoss]

My grandparents cottage on Big Bass Lake(lake county) went through this weed problem a few years back. I attended one of the meetings held, and luckily there were some educated people there to respond to the chemical salesman. We ended using small amount of chemical treatment and planted the milfoil Weevils as a natural way to keep the growth down. The water is getting clearer (probably from the milfoil that still exists) and the fish seem to be healthy. I'm pretty sure the lake is treated 2 twice per year and I have never noticed water clarity issues, maybe because they only treated a few thick spots....

[djkimmel]

It does depend on the bottom makeup of the lake. I'm usually hearing about Southern Michigan lakes with soft bottoms that can get stirred up and stay stirred up if there isn't anything to help with sediment. We've also lost so much of our wetlands, natures filter. Busy boat traffic lakes and lakes that get a lot of powerful wind are often the worst.

If the lake had a sand, gravel, rock mix or maybe marl, it might not get muddied up much, but you need some other cover to replace what was there if you take it away. I've talked to some chemical salesmen who seemed decent but they do make more money if they sell more chemical. A tricky mix.

Weevils can help on some lakes with milfoil. Targeted treatments can help minimize the impact on bass. Tons of dead weeds year after year can make the bottom muckier of course. I like targeted, limited aquatic plant control, even if it is exotic milfoil. I have seen few lakes that 'recovered' to a better state when they wipe out all the milfoil and did nothing else.

I've always told them DEQ or MDNR - whomever is in charge of permits at the time - we bass anglers like the milfoil. We catch lots of bass out of that stuff. Some lakes have gotten really good just by getting milfoil in them when they had limited cover before but I sure don't condone putting it in lakes it's not in. It's an exotic and can get out of control on some lakes. I would just like to not see it all killed at once when there's nothing else available for cover to replace it.

The MDNR used to say no to SONAR all the time. There were reasons for that. Somewhere about the time the MDNR was split into two entities, SONAR use started going up. I like to go by the 'everything in moderation' credo including aquatic plant control. I just think that represents everyone better and more fair - anglers, swimmers, skiers, boaters, swimming pool from a lake people, etc. Well, except some of the chemical salesmen.

[djkimmel]

Isn't that Dan's Big Bass Lake? Seems like he told me something happened to the bass a few years back and the fishing was slowly coming back?

[MSURoss]

Ya he has a place on it. It had the LMBV hit about 10 years ago. To be honest it hasn't come back. I caught    hundreds of bass last summer wit only 3 barely measuring. Its insane healthy the fish are and they dont appear to be growing. There is plenty of forage too. The only reason I fish it in between tippy dam pond and manistee is because the minimum size is 10in, and I harvest the 10-11in. I throw back the larger ones in hopes their genes will become more prevalent in the population.

[djkimmel]

That is more than a little strange. A lake that probably needs some further investigation maybe by some fisheries people?