So what happened at the meeting?

[motocross269]

My goal is 300 anglers at the 2011,  Aug. 29 Lake St. Clair State Championship @ $60per angler?

$18,000 should be a good start to the general fund?

I thought the entry fee for the August 2010 state championship was $50? That is what I have in my notes.

At the meeting the board said that the entry fee for the LSC state fish off would be pending on how much money was raised for the Muskegon free state fish off...Then the flyer that I got said it was 50 bucks...So to be honest I am a little confused on that....I could see over 200 anglers fishing that LSC state fish off with an entry fee of 50 bucks that could raise 10k fairly easily...

[Mark117]

Dan, you guys are sharp! Lets make it interesting? $50+$10 big bass?

$2,000 big bass/ $1,000 largemouth big bass?

yes I said 300 anglers! not 100, not 200? Think big!

SOME WILL NOT MAKE THE STATETEAM? BUT EVERYONE CAN GET LUCKY AND CATCH A BIG BASS!

I will put up $60 with a chance to win $2,000?

If you offer good incentives, they will come! PERIOD!

[djkimmel]

I try to make sure I answer questions accurately when people ask them. I often email or call Jeff or whomever to clarify before I answer questions I get asked publicly or privately.

I believe the entry fee was set at $50 with $25 going towards the state team and $25 going towards a payback for places 14+, every 6 spots plus one, I believe is how Jeff put it. I will check my detailed notes and make sure I have that right at least as of that meeting. I don't recall what was said about big bass for that event. I think just that one spot would be paid, but I will confirm that.

[Waterfoul]

Dan Dan the answer man!!   

[cameraguy]

our club "ROI State of Michigan" will be joining TBF tommorow,we are mostly joining to fish the state fish-off and a chance to "live the dream"......I have been on 2 recent state teams(BASS) and had a blast!!! but i always thought things were a little backwards with the money,tournament fishing by far makes the federation go round(there's lots of tournaments with no youth and conservation but were's the youth and conservation clubs outside tournaments).
  don't get me wrong i'm all for the youth(i have 3 aewsome fishing girls) but i think alot more youth stuff goes on behind the scenes from club members thats not showcased,for me it doesn't have to be a youth fish-off(or what ever) to show that were doing some youth stuff,I just look around at fellow tournament anglers with there kids(some TBF members,some not) and know that they care and thats what i'm looking for in a federation,i'm also looking for my federation to take WELL care of the state team qualifiers and to go to bat for me when my fishing lifestyle is threatened at a state level.
I do not think there should be a seperate budget it should be the federation fund and the "elected officials" should vote what should be done with that fund.

Before I comment on some of the things posted since my last post, I would like to put this question out there...

Why do you (anybody who wishes to reply) think that FLW Outdoors is willing to be a partner of TBF, Inc? 

[ROI Outdoors]

Before I comment on some of the things posted since my last post, I would like to put this question out there...

Why do you (anybody who wishes to reply) think that FLW Outdoors is willing to be a partner of TBF, Inc? 


[/quote]

A quote from a recent article:

Growing fishing participation is a long-established goal of FLW Outdoors.

"FLW Outdoors' goal is to provide fishing opportunities for anglers from coast to coast," said FLW Outdoors President and CEO Charlie Evans. "We are working with our partners at TBF to do just that. We feel that fishing, particularly fishing with the TBF and FLW Outdoors, can change lives. Just ask TBF National Champion Brian Travis who will be 'Living the Dream' next season on the Walmart FLW Tour. Plus, everyone has a chance to change their life by playing Fantasy Fishing, just as Michael Thompson did last year by winning $1 million playing Fantasy Fishing."

Another good indication as to the answer of your question could be found by viewing the following article:

http://tbf.flwoutdoors.com/article.cfm?id=150499

I would have to say that the direct answer to your question would be because the TBF helps grow participation.  This partnership mutually benefits FISHING - and as the article said it isn't all about the bottom line, it's about fishing.  What is the right answer to your question?  Is it about something else? 

[WayneC]

Work 16 hours, sleep 14 hours, fix starter on car and some other things 5 hours, commute 5 hours, relax a little then find out the world of GLB has passed me by in that time.  Sorry to not have responded sooner Jon.

Love the bullet points in your Nov. 30th post!

1. Capital letters destroy polite posting
2. Does the rich guy have any extra?...trying to put together the mortgage payment right now.
3. Assumptions make for great drama

I hope you're feeling better now.  Let's face the challenge together.

Welcome to the world of volunteerism.  There are almost always a key group of folks who bring it all together so don't be so down about the numbers, enjoy the time you have with the people who are making a difference.  You'll find that some of those folks might not make it the next time but there will be some others who couldn't be there before who will fill in next time.  It's all good and things can improve as the TBF grows.

You might be surprised to know that there isn't much on this thread that has to do with the money.  In fact, to a fault there probably isn't anything on the thread either about individuals getting funds for themselves.  That's not insignificant.  I think you might have the first post that brings something like that into the conversation and that's fair enough, we're just talking here...  The entire focus seems to be on how funds are allocated and the methodology.  That seems fair enough too.  I can truly appreciate that you're just getting started becoming engaged in the Federation because I've been there.  It took some time to get the whole picture and find out how an organization like this operates and why.  And don't worry about the TBF being divided, rest assured the key group of people are working hard at building new relationships and fresh lines of communication.  There is a lot to be appreciated about the process we're in right now.

There must be some confusion about the general fund issue too and somehow it sounds like you believe that I think (the "& Co." thing was really cool by the way) there should be three funds.  For the most part, the board makes decisions on how funds are allocated but there are probably some significant issues concerning past practices and such.  If the board fully discloses (as far as I know this is happening and any member can attend, but not participate in, a board meeting) how that is being done then the president of each club can decide for themselves if they support that.  Part of that plays out in debate at the general meeting, part of it happens as board members enlist the support of members like Jeff has by setting up committees for certain issues, some of it gets adjusted when board member terms come up for a vote and possibly, in rare cases a board member can be removed for "just cause" by a 2/3 vote of the board itself.  This process has proven itself to be very stable over a long period of time and if the board wants to make three different accounts or have one general fund depends on the board seeing the value in either approach.  I can tell you that the traditional way of handling this has been to have a single general fund and disburse the monies via a published budget and that has worked well.  To have three separate accounts creates unnecessary expenses.  Sometimes a separate account is called for to comply with tax regulations having to do with our status as a non-profit.

Keep in mind that there has been a big shift in policy lately which can potentially solve some issues but inevitably brings up other issues.  I think what you are seeing as a problem might have more to do with "cause and effect" than anything else.  It really is incumbent on the people who are driving the policy to implement it.  That's the "cause" part of the equation.  A really, really, really, really good idea can quickly become a liability if it isn't handled properly.  Knowing how to do this well takes years of work through volunteering in the organization, serving on club boards, helping out at events (like you did), serving on the board in a non-executive capacity then serving in an executive capacity in a support function like secretary then ultimately winning the confidence of the membership to have the support in such a way that the board makes its top executive pick because that person is clearly the most qualified to facilitate the core philosophy of the Federation and serve the membership.  Anything short of this type of selection process is going to produce a situation where two steps will be taken forward then one backward and so on.  If you are familiar with stocks then you might compare it to a bear market.  At this very point in time there are so many issues reflecting this that it is impossible to keep score.  This too shall pass.

So all I can do is encourage you to go with the flow and enjoy the ride.  Treat each member with respect, value their thoughts and opinions, continue to do all those good things you do and realize the things that go bump in the night are known about and seen by the key people building the TBF for years to come.

BTW - Sorry MG but I didn't even know you were on the GLB forum until 117 mentioned it.  I'll feel real dumb if your screen name is something so simple that I should have guessed it.

[cameraguy]

Again, don't have a lot of time here, but...

ROI I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my question.  Your response is good, however, usually articles taken pretty much from press releases don't have a lot of substance.  One has to dig deeper than the happy face thrust into the public eye by such a release.  I do think that the link you posted has a little nugget in the form of a quote by Mr. Evans that might be a key to the whole thing. 

I would like to hear from others, as well, regarding the same question.

Why do you (anybody who wishes to reply) think that FLW Outdoors is willing to be a partner of TBF, Inc?  

   

[WayneC]

ROI - About your 11/30 post

Love that forward looking spirit you have because you help those around you to stay focused on the ultimate goals we share.

I think the part you mentioned about the "angling community" can apply across the board to society in general.  It is just showing up at our doorstep so for the future of our sport we'd better pull together and see the distraction for what it is.  If a new angler were to read the entire thread for the first time I think a common theme would emerge for them, and it would be a good one.  True "bickering" would take a different form I think.  It would be more personal and less issue oriented so sure, there were moments the line was walked but it takes two to tango and I'd like to believe it wasn't crossed.  If you've seen a less disciplined forum outside of GLB then you probably have a good frame of reference for what I'm talking about.

Hopefully what we have here is an advanced form of the optimization you spoke of.  In this case, the serious angler just might be the one who hangs in there and keeps contributing to the thread all the while learning and growing stronger for the effort.  All-in-all I view most of this as talking past each other and the operative word is talking.  It could be just me but I've seen what only can be described as a tipping point in this discussion and with the exception of a few more (perhaps a lot more) speed bumps, the groundwork is laid for robust growth if we have the character to sustain it.

[Waterfoul]

Ok... lets go fishing.  Is it time to go fishing yet?  I want to go fishing!!  I'd like to see how I handle fishing from the backseat of my own boat!  LOL

[gr@ssmonkey]

camaraguy...?

[Waterfoul]

camaraguy...?

Yeah, what gives?  I know... you're just one of those guys who doesn't believe ANYTHING he reads.  Dismisses it all as 3rd party rants, mis-quotes, and genera hearsay.  Well, that's too bad as Luke's answer was taken directly from the directors of TBF and FLW... I know... I was looking over his shoulder when he looked up the information.

I think if you really need to satisfy your pesimistic mind you need to talk to the directors YOURSELF.  Do your own research.  Make up your own mind.  And then quit being the naysayer and disbeliever you make yourself appear to be.

Now.... let's go fishing!!!  darn snow. 

Mike

[djkimmel]

Looks to me like he was just asking members why THEY think FLW Outdoors would want to partner with TBF. There could be many possible reasons why it would be attractive to FLW Outdoors. I don't see why asking that should be taken as a negative. I don't see where he said he doesn't believe the information posted. Looks to me like he is just asking about more substance. More specifics. Other peoples' opinions and thoughts. Nothing negative about that either.

There's nothing wrong with discussion about things like that. We might all learn something. Well anyone interested in those kinds of things might. Anyone not interested isn't being forced to read about it. As usual. That's why there are so many available topics on the forums.

[Waterfoul]

Again, don't have a lot of time here, but...

ROI I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my question.  Your response is good, however, usually articles taken pretty much from press releases don't have a lot of substance.  One has to dig deeper than the happy face thrust into the public eye by such a release.   I do think that the link you posted has a little nugget in the form of a quote by Mr. Evans that might be a key to the whole thing. 

I would like to hear from others, as well, regarding the same question.

Why do you (anybody who wishes to reply) think that FLW Outdoors is willing to be a partner of TBF, Inc?  

   

Sorry Dan, but this post seems pretty negative to me.  How could anyone not directly involved in the TBF or FLW even venture an educated answer to camera guys question?  99% of the people on this site are NOT directly involved with either organization.  That means those of us who fall into that 99% HAVE to go by what we are told by those who are involved.

ANYTHING else is a guess. ROI gave the ONLY educated answer anyone from outside the organizations could possibly give.  It was based on the facts as they are presented to the general angler population.

[mikesmiph]

If I had to GUESS, I would have to say that FLW probably makes money off of TBF. Seems to be the biggest reason anymore for these kinds of partnerships. Wish we could go back to the days when we were partners with someone because we liked them. Too much of this world revolves around money.

[josh617]

I thought they (FLW) did it just to tick BASS off.

[Skip Johnson]

If I had to GUESS, I would have to say that FLW probably makes money off of TBF. Seems to be the biggest reason anymore for these kinds of partnerships. Wish we could go back to the days when we were partners with someone because we liked them. Too much of this world revolves around money.

I would have to agree with you Mike but only to a point, FLW is a business for profit but there is more to it for FLW than just simple profit IMO.
Bringing new grass root anglers into organizations and combined groups not only helps FLW financialy, it helps bring a louder and more informed responsible voice to the table in the event that another organization like peta tries to take our rights away.

I also believe FLW backs TBF for conservation reasons that help improve and maintain our fishing resources so their is ecologically a fishing future.
lastley I believe FLW backs TBF to help bring in more youth anglers, in the long run its quite a smart plan, it helps strengthen our numbers and voice and sell more boats.

Does it come back to the all mighty $....well Im sure thats part of it but Im sure peaple like Forest Wood, Charlie Evans and their partners and sponsors care about the future for their own children and grand children just like we do.

When I pay my FLW and TBF fees I dont do it just to go fish a tournament, I do it to help keep an organization in tact to be a voice and help protect something I love, If someones getting paid and making a profit at the end of the line I dont care one little bit.

Ive been paying B.A.S.S. dues for over 30 years and have never fished a B.A.S.S. tournament, I pay my dues to help the sport.
Im sure some of my my money has gone to some rich representitive living in a fat house....but he has the financial backing, knowledge and connections to fly to washington or wherever and be heard if needed and that alone makes it worth my $.

[mikesmiph]

Wow. Excellent post Skip. I am going to join as many organizations as I can to help make fishing better for future generations. I will do all in my power to help. I have 5 grandkids, and I fish with all of them. Their fishing future means the world to me. Thanks for helping to clear this sometimes muddled mind.

[djkimmel]

Despite some doubt in cameraguy's motives or meaning - anyone who doubts they have something to add to this question sells themselves short - I think mikesmiph and particularly cast n blast are saying exactly the kind of things cameraguy was wondering about when he simply asked for your opinions. I take it that he wanted to know your opinions.

He wasn't asking someone to come forward necessarily and say, "I know exactly why they did it." We can all learn things from each other. I know I learned some things from recent posts. Thanks for participating.

As far as Josh... () well, I can't say if that plays anything in this but we all recognize the competition between the two tournament pillars, and I prefer to think, and hope, they both recognize that we are valuable commodities for many (good) reasons.

[motocross269]

Most lobbying organizations have to make money to stay in the forefront.....NRA, VFW, AARP, etc etc...Without good funding battles are tough to win.....

I have no problem with a tournament organization making a profit...Just like any other not so small business, if they don't profit what is the incentive to stay in business....JMHO....

I really believe that FLW is trying to parallel BASS with the Federation to a point....That is fine though, I am glad that I have 2 large tournament organizations to be a part of and have a ton of opportunities to fish in this state(That doesn't even take into account NBAA etc)...I have started puting everthing on a calendar and it is filling up pretty fast.....I wish I was rich with both time and money so I could take better advantage of some of the opportunities...