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Author Topic: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest  (Read 7412 times)

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yukonjack2

Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« on: February 08, 2011, 05:05:43 PM »

it appears that an attorney from Detroit has filed suit against the
US forrest Service with the intent to ban hunting and snowmobiling from over 70,000 acres of PUBLIC land.

The MUCC website does a great job of laying out the details including the 75 page court order.  In a nutshell, there is currently a public comment period on this issue at meeting around the state (one in Lansing and one in Southfield this week).  All comments must be in writing and submitted at a meeting or faxed or emailed.

Don't ignore this as it is serious and needs a response from every outdoorsman that utilizes state land.  This will prevent a poor political decision that is the precedent for additional land closures.  (Remember the potential Lake Eerie sport fishing closures under the Federal acts of marine sanctuaries) ?

Act now and submit comments to support hunting and snowmobiling on these public lands.  Your voice does matter.
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2011, 08:31:01 PM »

They just want to take it away in chunks at a time. We can't let them.

Public meeting tomorrow in Lansing!

2/10/11 - Lansing 4-8 p.m. Causeway Bay Hotel, 6820 South Cedar
« Last Edit: February 10, 2011, 01:38:41 PM by djkimmel »
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2011, 08:56:48 PM »

Check out this link and get in your written comments. I will check out the last public meeting tomorrow.

http://www.mucc.org/index.php/hot-button/comments/action_alert_take_action_to_prevent_70000_acre_hunting_ban_in_the_huron-man

Submit written comments
    * U.S. Mail - Send written comments to Lee Evison, Forest Planner, Huron-Manistee National Forests, 1755 S. Mitchell Street, Cadillac, MI  49601
    * Fax - 231-775-5551
    * Electronic - comments-eastern-huron-manistee@fs.fed.us (Comments sent via email should contain the subject line "Forest Plan SEIS"
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2011, 12:30:13 AM »

Found a great blog to learn the reasons and step the Plaintiff took and why. It stands to say he is making the state comply with their own laws to review all recreational activities and ascertain the need(s) to accomodate those recreations. The end game is the plaintiff wants to have 7% of the National Forest (remember its not Michigan land so the US taxpayer has as much say in its use as does the Michigan citizen) set aside to remove snowmobiling and hunting.

http://creativeconflictwisdom.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/kurt-meister-versus-us-department-of-agriculture/#comment-654

Of course ... I take exception to the plaintiffs position and wrote the following:


February 10, 2011 at 12:14 am
The Law: There is no constitutional law stating a US citizen has a Right to Quiet observance of the outdoors, no more than there is no constitutional law stating the right to hunt.

Therin lies the rule of precedence. The Federal Land Policy and Management Act allows the Forest Service to designate areas of public land where no hunting may be permitted for reasons of public safety, administration or in compliance with other provisions of law. Allowance for quiet areas would indeed set quite a precedence for other individualist “rights”.

Under the Pittman-Robertson Wildlife Restoration Act all hunters pay excise taxes on their hunting equipment, which gets dispersed to state wildlife agencies for conservation efforts. Unlike most recreational users in the Huron-Manistee National Forest, hunters are directly responsible for the roughly $25 million Michigan receives each year in wildlife conservation funding. Hunters actually fund and protect the very birds and sanctuary Kurt want to observe in his silence …..

Sarcasticly: the trials and pathways that allow anyone to traverse this large area are the ones most traveled. Nature tends to gravitate away from these areas. Now a truly sanctified and rudy character like Kurt should develop his mountaineering skills (and drop some weight ) and perhaps go off the trails 1 -3 miles. He becomes closer to nature, cannot hear snowmobiles, gets some exercise, and once he has to sit for 8 – 10 hours without hearing a shot, he will have enjoyed the EXACT SAME quality of reacreation that me, the hunter enjoys. … and that is – exercise, true sun rises, squirrels playing, fresh air, crunching feet of does, running water, chick-a-dees on my shoulder, a nap, a solitary lunch, blue jays raising cane, fog rolling across a field, fresh rain on my face, birds of prey overhead, peace, the crackling of the plants contracting at the end of the evening (twilight). This is why I hunt …. And this is the calm I gain by hunting …..

Genetics: Unless a hunter is stalk hunting …. The “hunt”is only a trigger pull and 3 hours of hard labor preparing your kill (in the same way humans have existed carnivorously over the last 100,000 years).

Heritage: My son is 11 and will hunt with me next year. I plan to take him to every corner of public Michigan hunting grounds over the next few years. He will learn many towns, walk them, and breathe Michigan in all 6 corners. And never will we ask another person to stop doing what they love….. so that we may do what we love.

Kurt – third person self rightous – you are indeed – selfish. But I do invite you to go with me, 3 miles off any trial, and show you the outdoors.

What do you think ?

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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2011, 01:42:59 PM »

To me this is no different than have a fairly good sized lake be electric motor only making it more 'exclusive' to fewer citizens. In other words, excluding persons who choose to have a larger boat that is difficult to manage only with the electric motor, when gas motor, no-wake regulations allow so many more persons to enjoy the resource while still offering a fairly relaxed, natural outdoors experience.

It took a number of people many years to get the regulations switched on a number of lakes in Michigan to gas, no-wake. It didn't wreck any lakes or anyone's enjoyment of the water. And it meant a lot less people getting stuck at the end of the lake in unsafe conditions when their electric motor could not outdo a strong wind.

We have to learn to share fairly and make compromises that are the most fair to the most numbers of people. I don't understand why that is so hard for some people to figure out.
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2011, 01:50:04 PM »

Here's a purported quote from Kurt Meister - the attorney who appears to have made this his personal quest:

“There ought to be some place in the forest where you can go cross-country skiing or snow-shoeing or kayaking or hiking or ride your horse without having to listen to the noise of other people and the guns and machines they use.”

I have a suggestion for Kurt. Buy some forest land and do whatever you want with your own land. That's the American way.
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 02:05:48 PM »

He was also quoted as saying this in an MLive.com article:

"Life requires compromise," he said. "In almost 1 million acres of forest, there should be a place where everyone should be able to do what they want to do."

I believe this already exists realistically just fine - the compromise being regulations on safety, seasons and safety zones, and the limitation that snowmobilers can only be out there when there's enough snow (for how much of the year?). He apparently believes that there should places like this to himself though maybe? Without all those 'other people' maybe?

His idea of compromise is exclusion, while my idea is sharing fairly, period!

This case could allow so many more ridiculous lawsuits to be filed by anti-hunting groups to exclude hunting from so much more PUBLIC land! And please don't forget, most if not all,  of these same groups are also anti-fishing.

I can see what would be next is to revert back first to more no gas motor waters. And then no fishing because seeing someone 'harm' a fish would ruin their enjoyment of the outdoors.

This is how the anti game is changing people. Twist the laws and regulations, waste money and everyone's time, wearing down our privilege to hunt and fish in chunks at a time.
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Dan

Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 02:17:55 PM »

I went to the public meeting in Grand Rapids. Having this as a possible case others use as precedence to close more areas is a travesty. The issue of quiet areas is just not defendable. If you travel those areas you'd be hard pressed during much of the year to hear a gun go off.
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 02:21:35 PM »

Yeah. I imagine that part is just BS to push forward an agenda. I've been doing some research trying to find out anything I can about what is really behind this. I'm sure we already know, but knowledge IS power.
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2011, 05:38:34 PM »

Here's a very simple thing you can do right now to make a difference in this issue. Email comments TODAY (2/10/2011) or tomorrow (2/11/2011) at the latest to the following email address stating you want all Huron-Manistee National Forest land presently designated as Semi-Primitive Non-Motorized to be changed to Semi-Primitive Motorized. Times have changed and this will remove most of the so-called complaint this ONE PERSON has with how this process was decided.

Email: comments-eastern-huron-manistee@fs.fed.us
(Comments sent via email should contain the subject line "Forest Plan SEIS")
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 06:14:52 AM »

Sent today......


With respect,

I would encourage that all Huron-Manistee National Forest land presently designated as Semi-Primitive Non-Motorized to be changed to Semi-Primitive Motorized.

Sincerely

David E. Wagensomer
US Taxpayer
Michigan Resident
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2011, 04:10:31 PM »

Sent today......


With respect,

I would encourage that all Huron-Manistee National Forest land presently designated as Semi-Primitive Non-Motorized to be changed to Semi-Primitive Motorized.

Sincerely

David E. Wagensomer
US Taxpayer
Michigan Resident


Wags, I wanted you to know that I stole your email and sent is as my own...I didn't think you would mind.   ;)
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2011, 06:24:01 PM »

Thanks fellows. It's amazing, but this is all happening because ONE guy can't accept that he was the only want who wanted a certain alternative and he was dissatisfied that the US Forest Service did not take the time to work up a complete environmental impact statement alternative just for him... just amazing.

Ego? Selfishness? Too much time on his hand? An agenda? I don't know. But just amazing the expense and time this is ending up taking for this one guy.
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motocross269

Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2011, 08:24:13 AM »

I try not to bad mouth and group a career field into one based on bad experiences but In my lifetime everytime a "lawyer" is involved in something that I care about things turn bad really quickly...

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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2011, 09:01:13 AM »

I learned that a lawyer can only be two things.
Either your best friend or your worst enemy. :-\'
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What's with the news these days on the TV and the radio. Can't find the truth amongst the lies. Some talking head that claims to live their life in a better way, says I have to compromise. But now there's something on the rise. Truth has opened up my eyes. There's no running from your dirty lies. You can't avoid the truth. I'll no longer close my eyes.

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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2011, 04:43:07 PM »

The US Forest Service will not look at all comments and prepare a supplemental environmental impact statement (SEIS) to show to the courts. Once things are officially started again, there will be another 90 day review period for the public to look at the SEIS. I'll notify everyone when I get notice that opportunity is available.
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2011, 06:07:46 PM »

Go to this website, and you will get a real time resonse from the guy himself - Kurt :

http://creativeconflictwisdom.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/kurt-meister-versus-us-department-of-agriculture/#comment-654

Though it says its a creative conflict resolution place blah, blah, blah .... the moderator who is responds to you is infact Kurt. I am writing as Michael.... Be intelligent and stay on course fellas.
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2011, 09:08:11 PM »

I will be intelligent by not wasting more time with the selfish guy than I already have wasted. I just intend to get to some common sense resolving the issue with as little additional wasted time (thanks to this one selfish guy who can't accept that in this society it's the majority that rules over public land that belongs to all of us equally not the one guy with his one opinion) as possible.
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2011, 08:24:27 PM »

I will be intelligent by not wasting more time with the selfish guy than I already have wasted. I just intend to get to some common sense resolving the issue with as little additional wasted time (thanks to this one selfish guy who can't accept that in this society it's the majority that rules over public land that belongs to all of us equally not the one guy with his one opinion) as possible.

I tend to say if we have his direct ear .... and ... you can provide common sense arguement, he may fill up and just go away ? Make him rethink his position per say/...........
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Re: Hunting/Snowmobile banin the Huron Manistee National forrest
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2011, 09:09:58 PM »

I doubt it. He's on a mission and considering the length of time he has fought this, knowing he was the only person who wanted this option originally out of all the commentors, and guessing at the personality of such a person (think 'I have to have my way dangit because I'm more important / valid'), I will not waste my time. Debate is only valuable if all parties have at least a little open mind. His mind is closed because he has to have his way. Like a two year old maybe...
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of The Bass Federation of Michigan.
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