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Author Topic: Paper tourny question.  (Read 11943 times)

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gnewski5

Paper tourny question.
« on: January 31, 2006, 10:22:20 AM »

How do you run a paper tourny?

I can't even see how this would work unless everyone had calibrated scales in each boat.

We had an event with 18 boats, 9 were within .30 pounds of each
other. How could you have that tight of a race if you don't actually bring the fish to a common scale?

Just qurious, don't plan on having one any time soon,  Greg
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MBell

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2006, 10:47:37 AM »

When it's for money they do it by length and then put it in a formula.  I've done the digital scale and liked it a lot, but I was fishing against guys I knew.  The length to formula thing won't be that accurate on the weight and it's anyones guess who wins in a close tournament.  Another thing to watch for is guys using the same fish especially when there on beds, the same fish will count in three guys bags and that will make the lake look better than it is.  Don't care for this format when fishing for money, but we have no choice fishing in Michigan.
-Matt
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dhuff

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2006, 11:12:50 AM »

I have seen the boards where you it gives you a weight for the length of the fish.  So if measure a 15in fish look to the other side of the board and it will tell you how much it weighed and so on.  Is it accurate......NOOOOOOOO!  So I stay far away from those tournaments for money.  And, as Mbell said guys will catch the same fish over and over again off of a bed and count it.  So another reason to stay away from them for me.
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McCarter

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 11:44:52 AM »

WE have paper Ts in the ABA.  WE use a board that calculates weight accrding to the length of the fish.  Is it accurate?  No, not even close.  But everyone has the same board so there are no advantages or disadvantages.

As far as catching the same fish off a bed and measuring and counting it more than once, thats just wrong.  I guess it would be up to the guy in the back of the boat to say something.  Since we are a draw trail, the dude or lady in the back of the boat is fishing against the person in the front.  If this were to happen, it would be foolish of the non boater to not say anything. 

Paper tournaments are not for everyone.  I enjoy them.  I have not seen any problems yet with the tournaments we have had over the past few years.  We always get a big turn out for them too.

PoorBoy himself :-\'
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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 12:11:56 PM »

i had fun at the Cass ABA last year although i could have caught the same 4 ponder all day..  there was another fish by a rock right next to her and she never moved all day... 
ABA uses the Golden Rule shick has the weights on the back..   i used it all summer and had 2 fish that measured on it and were short on another bump board at weighin.  one cost me a win,  the other i got a courtsy bump and found out it was short..   
the reason so many people fish ABA is to hang out with POORBOY...  right....

half the ice is gone off Kent..

think spring

ss
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djkimmel

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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 12:21:53 PM »

It always comes down to personal ethics and trusting in the good of your fellow man (or woman). The best you can do it hold yourself to high standards and don't allow anyone else you see to game the system. Peer pressure works very well - it just needs to be applied by more decent determined people.

Here are some formulas to use for estimating bass weight. I think it is easier just to require everyone have the same measure board that has the estimated weights on it, but two of these formulas will get closer to the accurate weight for fatter fish than the measure board will.

Two of these would require anglers have a cloth measure tape for the girth (and also require more and longer handling of the bass, which also should be considered in a catch-and-immediate-release event).
--
Only need length - not as accurate for fat bass:
Length x Length x Length / 1600 = est. weight
--
To adjust for fat bass (need clothe measure tape):
Length x Length x Girth / 1200 = est. Weight
--
This one is for us almost-OCD/computer nerd-types: If you really want to zero in and get fancy (although the main formula is specifically for Florida bass which tend to be longer), there's a spreadsheet online you could get on a laptop at the following web site. Someone could have this on a laptop and anglers could bring in their length and girth measurement (need clothe tape). Enter the values into the spreadsheet and come up with a more accurate weight.

http://myfwc.com/Fishing/faqs/bass-size.html

Length-Weight Formulas to Estimate Fish Weights
Enter the fish's total length and girth in inches (see here for how to measure properly), into the yellow boxes, using decimals for fractions. The formula will convert the figures to millimeters and generate estimated weights.  (If you have the measurements in millimeters, you can enter them in the pink boxes).

Calculations are automatically completed when you click outside the box.  The answer in the blue box is considered to be the most reliable for Florida bass, the answers in tan boxes are from commonly used alternative formulas.  The primary estimate is derived from a rather complex formula, which is what Commission biologists use.

The equation is:
Log (weight in grams)= -4.83 + 1.923 x Log (total length in millimeters) + 1.157 x Log (girth in millimeters).  A 22" long bass with a girth of 15" weighs about 6.0 pounds using this formula.
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Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 12:55:12 PM »

Awful hard to do that for money....  I was in one and one only, and we used total length in inches.  Guess you could od that and not even have a "limit" if you wanted to.  It was no problem for us, we were on Pontiac (boooooooo!) and "weighed" a total of three fish.  WOW! :o
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ronhuntfish

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2006, 08:57:39 PM »

Seem like you might as well just add up the inches, if your just using the length formula.  Unless, it's part of a series, and you need to add up the different events.

Dropshot

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2006, 03:12:59 PM »

I've fished many paper tournaments in the past. Some for money some not. Unless you know everyone you should make sure everyone has a partnered up. Tried the electric scales at one time but there were too many problems making sure they were all calibrated the same and stayed calibrated. Went to using golden rule and everthing worked out great. :)
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Joe

Anthony Adams

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2006, 08:17:16 PM »

I really enjoy the ABA paper tournament format. I think it is honest, organized and works very well. The only problem is it's alot more work for the officials.

In the ABA we draw to see who rides with whom... Your non boater would measure your fish and write them down and you would his.

As for the weighing of the same fish..  IN the ABA you can not knowingly catch the same fish twice and count it.. nor can your non-boater catch a fish you caught, nor can you tell a friend about a fish you caught during the event. If a written complaint is made and the official feels you violated the rule you will be DQed...

I think the format, rules and honest of the fishermen take all possible cheating out.

If guys want to cheat they will find a way but this format makes it nearly impossible..

Personaly I think it is much easier to cheat in a team trail then a draw trail.

Why do we convert inches to weight? .... there are several reasons for this..

1) Standings are computed in weight on our site and on our official paperwork.

2) Year end standings...

3) It's just cool to say I caught X amount of weight ..

If you've never done an ABA paper tourney I highly suggest you give it a try. I think you will enjoy it..

However after doing two to start each year I am so ready to see fish come to a scale...

Tight lines ......



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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2006, 09:42:05 AM »

In club tourneys or events where there is no money involved, having digital scales on everyone's boat works well and can be a lot of fun.  But when there's money involved, there seems to be less controversy using the Golden Rule.  However, in a club I was in several years ago there was a member who had a different ruler.  It turned out that his ruler only measured down to the 1/4 inch, so he was always rounding up his weight while the rest of us were measuring to the 1/8th.  So make sure everyone has the exact same ruler, no exceptions.  As long as everyone involved understands that it's a paper tourney decided by total inches (converted to weight or not), you generally won't have too many problems. 

Someone mentioned a while ago having a spring GLB tourney.  A paper tourney sounds like fun.
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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2006, 12:05:24 PM »

ABA uses the Golden Rule.  they usually have some available to buy..  i have one but had 2 fish last year that bumped on the rule but measured short on a rule.  the golden has a rounded surface where it is formed.  other rules have a 90 degree bend.  i have one of them for this year.  tried blaming the dog for measuring wrong but it didn't work. 
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MBell

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2006, 02:15:47 PM »

A metal board left out in the sun can grow about an 1/8-1/4 of an inch pretty easily.  I've seen this happen where the official bump board is frying in the sun.  Pour some water on it to cool it down.  I have a golden rule and have had fish that wouldn't measure go easily after I dipped it in the water.   
-Matt
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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2006, 02:53:35 PM »

I have never heard of that.  But that might explain why all the pros never seem to leave the bump board out on their decks when they're fishing.  I wonder if that's why you always seeing them putting them back in a compartment every time they finish measuring a fish?  Makes a lot of sense.  Very interesting.
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gnewski5

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2006, 07:22:25 AM »

Thanks for all the responce guys.

Revtro,
 to tell you the truth, my partner and I put the golden rule back in the compartment for heat, but to protect the fish. Plus dip it in the water also. But mainly, its to keep us from either falling overboard or to keep us from breaking our necks tripping on it!
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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2006, 08:00:38 AM »

i've got a bump board holder under one of my compartment covers i usually keep it in there out of the way...i fish in my barefeet almost all the time when its nice, boy you learn fast how stuff like that can really hurt a toe!!  barefeet fishing isn't really the best practice (hooks  :o) but i can't help it....

i think Triton boats hit a home run with their vertical bump board stow compartment, right where you need it but neatly tucked away until you do.  that was probably the one major thing that stuck out to me about the Bassmaster Classic boats, I really like that feature.  I guess other boat companies might be using that now as well, but I'm really not sure.

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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2006, 08:35:14 AM »

I have mine snapped down to the deck where I don't step on it.  But it is out in the sun a lot.  However, I've never noticed it seeming that hot when I grab it.  I wonder if it has something to do with being one of the newer ones with the gold reflective surface?  Either way, I'll get into the habit of getting it wet before I use it to cool it down and make sure I'm getting an accurate reading.  Better dunk it in the livewell though...being such a clutz, I can just see myself dropping it in the lake!  DOH!
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yukonjack2

Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2006, 05:10:38 PM »

I keep mine in a slide holder on the under side of my rod locker compartments - it doesn't get hot that way. 

the pro's put it away after each use from reading the Rick Clunn zen thing about positive thinking you won't need it again the rest of the day - leave ti out, and you catch small fish - i need a refresher, never works for me.

Something I noticed - in a tourney with a courtesy bumb - if you have a real squeaker fish, and fishing is tough, rather than throw em back right away - put em in the livewell with the rejuvenate - within 10 min or so, they get 1/8-1/4 longer . I've been told that when you stick em and crank em in, the muscle tissue tenses up, so they are a little shorter when you measure them.  the salt int he rejuvenate(bass medic,... no advertising here) relaxes them and the measure a second time a little longer.

I am not advocating or have kept undersize fish(for whatever legal authorities are lurking), but that later legal extral 1.5 lbs could sure help on tough days.
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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2006, 10:41:40 PM »

Ray Scott used to always say he just rubs the bass' belly and they get longer. I won't repeat the rest of his story because this is a pg board (occ. slips into pg-13).
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Re: Paper tourny question.
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2006, 08:11:53 AM »

I haven't fished tourneys, nor for money like you guys do.

I do practice catch and release. 

I have a metal yard stick from the hardware store that I drilled three holes into, and screwed it down on the top of my rod locker lid. 

I only want to know approximately how long fish are anyways. 

But now you got me thinking with the sitting in the sun and heating up concept.
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