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Author Topic: Why care about prop 1?  (Read 665 times)

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Hollada

Why care about prop 1?
« on: October 28, 2014, 08:20:33 PM »

Purely from a fishing point of view, why care about prop 1?
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Re: Why care about prop 1?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 11:41:17 PM »

The simple answer is because we stand TOGETHER, or we LOSE!

The longer answer:
Because it is the original reason that allowed H$U$ to get their rotten feet back in our Michigan door to go after the whole scientific wildlife and fish management idea. They are both intertwined, especially thanks to H$U$ misleading marketing and the sympathetic or under-educated news outlets who have helped perpetuate the myth that this is all about wolves.

It's always about the same things with H$U$ and that's about H$U$ raising money from suckers off of misleading information - they are NOT a humane society, they are not going to help or save wolves or any other creature. They want to raise more money than they spend, and they would be happy if they could end all pet ownership, hunting and fishing along the way too.

As a package if we hadn't beaten them with the Scientific Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act, these two proposals could have made it scarily and remarkably easy for H$U$ to referendum Michigan hunting and fishing out of existence step by step while helping them raise even more money to raise more money (61% of their budget goes towards raising more money, 1% of their budget goes towards any local animal shelters or real local humane societies that they actually have NO affiliation with).

H$U$ has already lost but they are pumping every single international donor dollar out of this issue at least until the vote by continuing the illusion that they are still going to accomplish anything. If the money keeps rolling in they will stick around crowing and whacking their chests long after too because if it raises money they're in. And apparently there are lots of people who still can't figure out that much of what they claim they have done or will do doesn't actually happen...

We want to send a clear message that enough hunters and anglers, and Legislators AND voters know what they're really up to by winning these otherwise meaningless votes. It would be nice if people eventually figured out they are NOT donating to a real humane society or animal shelter when they give to H$U$ but for now we can settle for kicking their lying, money-grubbing, anti-hunting, anti-fishing butts back to Washington DC...

There's no middle ground and no gray area with these people, there's no just give them an inch - this is a protracted campaign of attrition and anyone who doesn't understand that does not understand these groups and the people that support them at all. They're like the Terminator - mindless, shortsighted, never going to stop until they've wiped it all out with no idea or care if what they're doing makes any sense or makes the world a better place - H$U$, peta and all their allies will say now until Sunday how they aren't truly anti-this or anti-that but just this one little thing they have a little problem with... and if they're lucky enough (or we wimp out - think Michigan dove hunting...) to win they always find just one more thing they have a little problem with... and then one more... and then one more... and they won't stop. It's what they do. It's all they do (except H$U$ definitely favors the money first, and then actual results).

H$U$ tried in the 90s with bear hunting - they aren't completely stupid. They know one way or another hunters and anglers are susceptible to allowing themselves to spend more time infighting than fighting the obvious real enemy (them). Sadly, it still works a far too often and too much (though I have no doubt some of the 'infighting' is actually a setup). In Michigan, H$U$ was able to pit one type of bear hunter against another type. It's a lot easier to end a type of hunting or fishing if you can publicly demonstrate to the majority non-hunting, non-fishing public that hey, EVEN THE HUNTERS THEMSELVES DON'T AGREE THIS IS RIGHT/GOOD/ETC.

We came extremely close in 1996 to losing bear hunting in Michigan because there was just enough infighting apparent and more than enough money being poured in by H$U$. Frankly, if we hadn't brought in Ernie Harwell and he brought Kirk Gibson on to just talk about hunting and hunters in an every day just folks and what Michiganders do and are about we would have probably lost. They always have more money than us and they can get lots of crappy but effective enough publicity. We flipped the polls late and won the Proposal G vote. But H$U$ came back later, pulled the same script and beat us on dove hunting. We may never get that season now because they've set it up so well (and enough claimed hunters spoke out against while few anglers bothered helping at all...). We don't dare touch doves right now unless we want to guarantee losing.

Now H$U$ is back running the same script again and this time they had the wolves to hang it on... If H$U$ had won this issue they would have just as easily been able to go after fishing as they could hunting. H$U$ always goes after the things they can mislead the most people over to raise the most money first but their ultimate goals still include ending all human interaction with all animals (because animals, insects and plants even?? have the same rights as humans).

Reality is the sooner ALL anglers AND ALL hunters get the message that we have to stand together against these attacks first all the time, the less likely these ongoing attacks will be successful. This was a very hard, very expensive campaign that took a ton of work by hunters AND anglers to win. We are polling at the moment like we will lose the votes on the two proposals. I could never overstate how bad that would have been for hunting, trapping AND fishing in Michigan if we hadn't beat them with the SFWCA Citizen's Initiative.

That is one reason they poured more than $2 million probably into trying to stop us. They are still using it to raise money and as an aside, to try to get some of the Legislators who did only what we outdoors people asked out of office by smearing them with the inaccurate label that we somehow took away their (the citizens') vote. It's all bull-puckey of course. Because they will say and do ANYTHING to keep the money rolling in first.

Just ask bear hunters in Maine who are battling to keep that alive, except the bear hunters (they claim to be bear hunters anyway) who are dumb enough to publicly 'debate' how they don't like the one method of bear hunting either. Like it really is possible to give these radical animal rights nuts an inch and they won't come back for the mile. How ANY hunter or angler could be that ignorant about what these people are like is beyond me.

First rule in any war is KNOW YOUR ENEMY. We are at war. We will probably continue to be at war but we have won a major victory with the SFWCA, and now other states have a blueprint to follow if possible in their state to start slowing down the attack of these radicals. There's always going to be people who are willing to give money to someone who claims I'm going to help the helpless animals so we will always have to be on top of this and the more of us who get that and agree to work together where we are more alike the more likely we are to keep winning. We can definitely lose, and they know that. We have already lost before.

Hope this answers your question and any others anyone has. If you missed it before I have already had one of these nuts send me a private message on Facebook telling me he hopes we all catch some type of cancer and die a horrible death, and the only hunting season he would ever support is one that kills hunters. That's what we're up against, and most of them don't feel any different about fishing. Please remember that. And think about what 'type' of fishing would be the easiest target for them to go after. I know the answer because they have already gone after it once.
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Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

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Re: Why care about prop 1?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2014, 12:04:04 AM »

Adding to this, I generally vote for someone or not based on quite a few different reasons. I put thought and time into it.

Regardless of all the important reasons to vote for someone or not it is going to be be real hard for me to vote for someone who helped H$U$ in ANY way because in doing so they helped support a major effort to attack our whole outdoors heritage (because I know my enemy).

I told that to a number of state legislators I met with before the Senate and House Scientific Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act (SFWCA) votes. I consider the Legislators who stuck their necks out for us and voted yes as understanding the real major issues at stake, and choosing to support Michigan hunting and fishing.

I consider the legislators who votes no against the SFWCA as supporters of anti-hunting, anti-fishing agendas. That's going to have a major impact this year on my personal votes.

Claim you're not anti-hunting all you want but if you voted no on the SFWCA you voted to support the H$U$ agenda. A number of our House Reps basically acted as spokespersons for the H$U$ campaign and that pretty much guarantees they won't get my vote. As I have said, there is no middle ground or gray area on this topic. The reasons most of the Reps I talked to who did give me reasons for why they were voting no came straight from the H$U$ propaganda. If you're elected to a state office in Michigan and you don't understand H$U$ enough to know why supporting them in any way is bad for Michigan I don't see how I can trust you with my vote. Any reason anyone could give about why they philosophically decided to vote against the SFWCA doesn't change that they voted to help H$U$ destroy my favorite quality of life pastime. Especially if the 'philosophical' reason they gave came directly from an H$U$ 'fact' sheet...  ::)

This was probably the biggest hunting and fishing victory in Michigan history and yet some elected officials opposed it for reasons fed to them BY H$U$. I don't know about you but that is 3 strikes for me all at once - friends with H$U$ equals 'you're outta there!'

I will share a list this week of the Senators and Reps who supported us, and of the senators and reps who supported H$U$. There's no other list and no other way to interpret it (there were a few who missed the votes, and a couple who abstained - I'm leaving them alone). I hope you consider it as one of your decision factors when you cast your votes on November 4.

In the end, your vote and my vote are still private but I have always felt sharing important information of all types about fishing and hunting, and related-issues is an important part of why I built this website in the first place. How you use it or not is always your call. I just thank you for being a member, for visiting, reading and considering things on GreatLakesBass.com.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

TimH

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Re: Why care about prop 1?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2014, 12:10:13 PM »

Dan hit the nail on the head.  And I love the H$U$...if you don't mind I will use that as well anytime I refer to them.  It gives a good image as to what they are really all about.
I am very concerned about the outcome of prop 1 and 2.  Anytime a candidate or a group is able to use animals or children as a base line for a ballot measure, I get nervous.  Most people don't take the time to understand the true issue and only see "buzzwords" like animals, children, improved education, etc.  From there they vote for the issue, not because they understand in depth, but they fall victim to just what these groups hope to accomplish.
Lets be real, 99.9% of all politicians support animals and children, so the campaign adds are just BS.  What people need to understand is, do these politicians and or ballot initiatives truly protect animals based off of sound scientific research and facts, or do they take away the rights of sportsman under the guise of "protecting animals."  I would imagine that all hunters and fisherman prefer these decisions made by educated individuals who make the nest decision based off of fact and research, and that is why its imperative prop 1 and 2 pass. 






















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Re: Why care about prop 1?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 09:59:42 AM »

Remember too read the whole ballot. Just don't assume the reasons for voting for  or against prop 1 and 2
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djkimmel

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Re: Why care about prop 1?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2014, 08:47:09 PM »

You're need to tell your friends, family and neighbors. Too many people believe the additional bs that we (or mostly the politicians) are taking away the ability to vote. Just a devious idea that H$U$ knows will resonate with more people.

The actual ballots don't even really explain what H$U$ is up to unless you hunt and fish, and you KNOW what H$U$ is about - $$ - that's what H$U$ is about. If they can take away all pets, hunting and fishing along the way so much the better for these nuts.

Check out www.humanewatch.org to get to know the real H$U$. Let your friends read it. Some of the information comes directly from H$U$ information so only the most stubborn, true anti could read this information and not see through the H$U$ game.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

Dan

Re: Why care about prop 1?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2014, 10:47:21 AM »

I keep reposting the info about Prop 1 and 2 as it gets closer to election day. I use my wife's Facebook page to proselytise.
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UAWBigDog

Re: Why care about prop 1?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2014, 01:38:08 PM »

Let's cut to the chase.  VOTE YES ON PROPOSALS 1 AND 2!!!  This is all about scientific management of wildlife and not emotional management of wildlife.  Also, the H$U$ wants to challenge these Props as they are already law.  They would like to say, "See, the people didn't really want this."  Don't give that to them.  We wanted it.  It's better for the resource.  PERIOD!!!!



BD                               ;D
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Re: Why care about prop 1?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2014, 07:10:30 PM »

Yes. I was thinking I'm not sure I've ever seen H$U$ tell the truth about anything. Disturbing how many people fall for their stuff. If we could educate more people about how their donation is actually used we might put a dent in their gravy train.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.
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