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Author Topic: Marina's  (Read 6060 times)

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LUMBERLEO

Marina's
« on: May 19, 2007, 10:25:03 AM »

    I've got a question.  Can a marina with access to public water post the water as no trespassing or fishing.   I recently pulled into a marina and was asked to leave by a gentleman.  I reluctantly decide to leave seing how I wasn't fishing a tournament and try not to argue which the fisherman always seem to loose anyway.  But come next week I would really like to fish in the marina.  I relize there are some reall idiot out there who do not respect other people's property.  I am always very respectfull and never break off close to docks and try not to bouce lures of boats.  I guess the question is can they legally run me out of the marina?????

Scott
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TCook

Re: Marina's
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2007, 10:51:53 AM »

No they cannot legally run you off the water it is open to anyone.
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djkimmel

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Re: Marina's
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2007, 11:02:30 AM »

In most cases, they have no legal grounds behind them in Michigan waters. Up to you whether or not you want to deal with people who might make things unpleasant.

There are some marinas on Lake St. Clair down the southern end of the West shore where enough money and clout got certain localities to pass local ordinances that the local police probably would not hesitate to try to enforce. Whether or not you could win a court fight in the end probabl does not appeal to many anglers and is usually the only way to find out in the end if 'laws' that usurp public water and resources can be upheld.

If it is on an inland lake, it is probably not backed by any law or regulation, but do not assume unless you want to find out how sympathetic local law might be, and that there might be some ridiculous local ordinance attempt.

If the sign does not say anything about a specific local ordinance by number, than it is probably just an attempt for all the reasons they do it, to keep others out of the marina.

If you do fish, expect to be confronted at times. Make sure you do NOT IMPEDE any boat traffic in and out of the marina, and stay away from gas pumps as much for courtesy as anything. If you are asked to leave by law enforcement, maybe just because they are wanting the hassle factor reduced, leave unless you want to test various possibilities.

Occassionally, local law has come and educated the marina people on the hunt/fish harrassment law, and the legality of you fishing public water. Probably won't win you any popularity contests with a few people there...

If you are confronted, don't waste your time arguing much with anyone who might confront you. You can remind them that it is still public water and that there are laws about harrassing legal anglers, and then keep fishing or leave depending on your comfort level. I do my best to ignore anyone being verbally abusive at that point, especially if I figure they are just a jerk and I know already that I will not have to worry about any actual law issues where I'm fishing.

I usually make it known that I'm down 'discussing' the matter with not-nice people by either saying, as friendly as possible, "have a nice day" and returning to fish, or if they seem particularly nuts, just turning a little away (I keep at least the corner of my eye on real nuts) and continuing to fish without ever acknowledging them again.

DON'T argue back once you've stated the basics about public water and the harrassment law. DON'T yell or become abusive back. DON'T threaten the person(s) or act like you will come ashore to do something physical. You don't want to escalate or fan the flames. You want to be the obvious victim, not the victimizer.

If they throw something at you or your boat, note as many details as possible, person's description, date, time, location and what they did, and decide if you want to call the law or not. I don't even say, "I'm calling the cops if you don't stop" after I have already told them there is an angler harrassment law. I prefer to not address them at all after the initial discussion. I either call the law in front of them, or leave.

Most of the time, if I expect there will be some kind of violence, I just leave. It is better than looking like an enabler, and there is always that remote chance that the really stupid on some human nature could cause something very unfortunate to happen.

I've been fortunate to not have any real direct attack on me or my boat other than being occassionally called every name in the book. There have been a few incidences of angler's boats being run into that I know of. The anglers that I know of have been successful in legal proceedings in those cases. These were in northern US waters. The law can be different in some places. In Ontario, for example, it can be legal to privatize certain canals and things apparently.

If you fish in that particular marina next week, make sure anyone who approaches you for the hassle factor, does not appear to be willing to do any physical harm, and be the good guy. Try to ignore them. Sometimes they get tired and go away. Be a gentleman and don't argue with anyone who sees you and make sure you are extra careful around docks and boats. You don't want to give any ammunition to any false claims. I remember one situation in Lake Charlevoix where we just went about our fishing quietly while a guy on shore just kept cussing us out. We were a little nervous because the guy had come out earlier in a ritzy area, and fired a shotgun over geese or seagulls on the lawn. Several other people living in the same 'club' told him they'd call the cops if he shot the gun again, and that he should shut up and leave the nice (quiet) anglers alone. He grumbled and mumbled some, but he went back in his condo and left us alone. The others there just made a few comments that none of them like the guy either.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of The Bass Federation of Michigan.

JCOOPER

Re: Marina's
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2007, 12:19:53 PM »

i had this situation a couple years ago when the nbaa classic was on Houghton.  I think this might actually be the lake you are now talking about.  Heres how it goes down.  There is a marina on houghton lake.  It is also the same marina the sherrif keeps his boat in.  the week before the tourney we were prefishing and were stopped by this officer.  We talked a little and asked for tips on fishing.  He gave his definition of why the fishing was slow.  His definition included alot of profanity and racial slurs.  I chuckled at his comments (with law enforcement I try to appear on their side) and were on our way.  During the tourney, it was day 2 and i really just needed 2 more for a check.  I pull into the marina, catch one on the first cast and continue down 2 more docks.  The sherrif boards his boat and says "you cant fish in here"  I reply "the marina is located on public waters and cannot be considered private property, therefore my right to fish cannot be refused"  (sounded pretty good to me) his reply was this "I know your fishing the tourney and you have 2 options, leave or we can go to shore and talk about this for the rest of your tourney hours"  I tried to remind him of the conversation we had the previous week and he informed me he was getting angry.  My hands were pretty tied.  I felt me only real option was to leave. 

long story short.  if your talking about houghton lake.  I would find fish elsewhere.
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BigSmallie

Re: Marina's
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2007, 01:12:32 PM »

Or.......prior to the tournament........go speek to the Sheriff himself.    Not a deputy...but the Sheriff, and push the law in their face before the tournament.   

If you don't get anywhere with the Sheriff.......seek out the State Police and get something in writing or express your concerns over the professionalism of the Sheriff.     I have yet to see a professionally run Sheriff department in  Michigan.........most of the deputies have additudes like JCOOPER mentioned.

And if that don't work................go straight to the Prosecutor!!!  LOL!!

How bad do you want those fish!!! LOL!!

BS  ;)
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bshaner

Re: Marina's
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2007, 09:06:30 PM »

Wouldn't it be more prudent to go to the DNR if the Sheriff doesnt listen to reason?  I could be wrong but I would think the DNR would be the foremost authority on the matter.  I could also be wrong but arent the DNR part of the State Police? 

I'm not going to name names but I did hear a DNR officer mention if you are being harrassed and Law Enforcement refuses to help you or even becomes part of the problem to call him and he will have a long talk on a short walk with the officer.

Just something to think about.

I speak from 10 years of experience as a Deputy Sheriff in Ohio (many years ago) that any time I was called to any marine or wildlife calls the first thing I did was have dispatch send the DNR, even before I arrived.  They have their own section of laws in the state code that I neither had the time nor the inclination to read up on, nor did I ever step in and get in the DNR's way.  I made that mistake once and boy did I take a lickin' for it - didnt do it again.

Oh by the way, you guys think we have it rough in MI.  In Ohio we had one DNR office for 3 counties.  Poor guys are over worked, under paid and dont get enough respect from us.

B
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motocross269

Re: Marina's
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2007, 02:41:14 PM »

This problem has been going on for as long as I can remember.  It is another case of the few bad apples ruining it for everyone else.
I remember I was fishing a Tourney on Muskegon lake and the guy I drew slammed a jig into the side of this guys beutiful sailboat.  The guy came flying out of the boat and gave us a serious butt chewing.  Sometimes it is best to let some targets go, and use common sense.  I guess If I had to clean fishing line out of my lower unit all the time I would get tired of it too.
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djkimmel

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Re: Marina's
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2007, 12:50:38 PM »

We do have to have courtesy and respect for other people's property. And the skill to make it easy to have that courtesy and respect. Otherwise, stay out of risky situations.

I have seen a small number of tournament anglers who appear to think marina boats are for ricocheting lures off of into tight spots, and/or acted like they were just fishing in a public swamp around some public 'trees' or something. That is part of our problem.

I also don't like to see generalized statements about law officers. It is an incredibly tough job that probably most do to the best of their ability. Just as there are some twerps in tournament fishing that some people want to paint us all broadly with, there are some twerps in law enforcement. Why? A certain percentage of people are just twerps, and you can expect a percentage of those twerps to be just about everywhere.

I won't through out the entire law enforcement fraternity, or a specific 'type' of law officer anymore than I want people to through out all of a specific type of angler... say bass tournament anglers.

I think I've only briefly debated law officers twice in my life. In the end, they will usually win the first round. But no one is immune to consequences, so get the full name, date and time. Write a summary of the incident and why you are upset. Then decide if it is worth it to go further.

Maybe something is done. Maybe not. Maybe the person stays on the job and just waits for you to show up again (just the kind of thing twerps are good at). Maybe the person is enough of a twerp that this is the final straw? I always think carefully when it involves someone with a gun. Life is too short to get too involved with the twerps scattered around.

I did send in a written complaint once about a law officer. It was an interesting process. I sent  it to the head of the department the officer belonged to. Some things occurred, most of which I would normally never have been told or heard about. That's the way it goes, but it did bring about some changes and within a year, the officer was no longer an officer. Don't know if it had anything to do with complaints or not.

I would think that in a case such as the one described here, if it is a sheriff's deputy, send a written complaint to the sheriff first. Be polite and professional without anymore emotion than you need to make your point. See if you get a satisfactory response - most often never what you might hope for completely, but maybe an acceptable compromise.

If the problem is still an issue, for public water, I would think you could complain to the Law Enforcement Division of the MDNR. Try the regional office first. See what happens.

Sheriff departments are responsible for enforcing general marine issues in Michigan counties I believe.

The MDNR Conservation Officers also enforce marine issues, but concentrate on MDNR property, environmental and wildlife issues. Both forces do some crossover in the marine safety area and once in a while, a sheriff deputy will become involved in the environmental and wildlife issues.

MDNR COs are not part of the Michigan State Police, but they are deputized to enforce any and all laws (changed a number of years ago), so they occasionally will get involved in backup on non-outdoor crimes in remote areas and even enforcing what you would consider non-outdoor issues on their own once in a while.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of The Bass Federation of Michigan.

SethV

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Re: Marina's
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2007, 01:58:38 AM »

I just totally ignore them if they come out to tell me I can't fish in the marina.  I don't even acknoledge that they are talking to me.  If they are angry, a civil discussion won't change anything, so I just flat out ignore them.  They usually threaten to call the cops (never do) and get tired of yelling at someone who won't respond.

My buddy in NY has an even better response.  He answers them in Russian.  The marina dudes don't even know how to respond!  It is hysterical!!  Some dude babbeling at them in Russian just is too funny.  They go through great pains with big gestures to explain that "we can't fish", but he just smiles, pretends he doesn't understand and continues babbling at them.  Too funny.
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thomas

Re: Marina's
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2007, 03:38:00 AM »

To funny ;D ;D ;D

thomas
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djkimmel

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Re: Marina's
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2007, 11:05:17 PM »

Maybe I should have an English to Russian marina preparation page? I like the just ignore them the most. If I know I'm in a marina that doesn't have any local ordinances on it (99%+ of them), I try to ignore the ones who look like they'll give up fairly quick and probably not get violent.

For the really ninny ones though, all bluster and mostly just twerps, I do like the Russian angle. Maybe I could combine the tiny bit of German, French, Spanish and Latin I remember into 3 or 4 sentences that would also work well enough?

"Et tu, Brute, Oiu? Quo vadis da druben eine fenster sinistra?" "Machen sie den mund su! Ich habe eine hundchen." "Vivo in la casa roja." "Parlez voux igpay atinlay?" "Ouryay osenay ookslay ikelay a oughballday."

Anyone know Klingon? You know what would be real fun? Have a younger kid with you who is one of those annoying rats who repeats everything you say no matter how mad you get?!? Ah, if life could only be that simple and fun... but we are supposed to set a good example.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of The Bass Federation of Michigan.

Bender

Re: Marina's
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2007, 04:48:19 PM »

Some people don't give up their spots easily: http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13372717/detail.html
That is what I would be worried about if somebody got really angry and you ignored them. I don't want to get shot.
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Ryan

Re: Marina's
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2007, 11:16:19 AM »

Wow, that's pretty intense.  I guess the moral of this story is if ever fishing in Georgia beware of old men fishing along the bank in overalls. :-\'

-Ryan
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Eric

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Re: Marina's
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2007, 02:19:16 PM »

I shoot back. :o

djkimmel

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Re: Marina's
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2007, 10:59:58 PM »

Well, I did preface my original post by saying "in Michigan" or something to that affect. Things are different in some other places... (real different sometimes "you ain't from around here, are ya boy?")
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of The Bass Federation of Michigan.
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