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Author Topic: Bump Rules  (Read 6804 times)

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Grandbass

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Bump Rules
« on: December 19, 2006, 10:48:10 AM »

So here I am at our annual club meeting this past friday enjoying a few refreshments.. We are going through our rules and the bump rule come up. After much disscussion the club voted to change the rule to include a protest bump. Has any one ever heard of such a rule?? So the tournament director cant get your fish to go and you get to protest the bump?? The protest bumper is the team who draws start boat. Is it just me or is this a stupid rule??
Joe
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smbassman

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2006, 11:15:24 AM »

So what if the start boat is also the protestee?  They just bring in a limit of 12inchers and call'em 14's?  Yep, dumb rule.  That's what the Tournament Director is for, directing the tournaments and enforcing rules.
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fishon1219

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Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2006, 02:40:20 PM »

In every tournament I have ever fished the TD has the ultimate say wether a fish makes it or it doesn't. It sounds like some members in your club don't like the way the TD bumps fish. If that's the case they shouldn't reelect him TD.
 It is a very dumb rule to have a protest bump and it also causes the fish more stress from more hands messing with it. In my club we offer a courtesy bump by the TD before your fish are weighed that way you already know if it will make it and the TD has also already made sure it reaches. If you don't ask for the courtesy bump, and a fish dosent make it than you lose your big fish.

A better rule would be to have a courtesy bump at the scale by the TD before you weigh your fish, or just make sure to catch bigger fish. Forget the protest bump.
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Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2006, 02:52:35 PM »

A courtesy bump system makes more sense.  Besides, it's already an accepted practice.  Why create more controversy.
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Skip Johnson

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2006, 02:57:05 PM »

thats a goofy rule if the td cant get it to go your penalised and that should be the end of the story, I have protested a rejected fish but got it after turning the fish over but if that dont work whats the point of someone else trying especialy another competiter.
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MBell

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2006, 03:04:52 PM »

It's a good rule to have, some tornament directors either don't know how to measure a fish that is close or have other motivations to make a fish go or not go.  I've seen it several times where an obvious borderline 14" is thrown back while half the field stands there watching it go on a courtesy bump.  The way you measure a close fish can take away 1/4", I've seen this done more than once.  One sign to watch for is the hand on the fishes head, if it is covering the fishes head something may be up.  This rule really doesn't mean much on most bodies of water where a 14 incher is nothing, but on the smaller waters I've seen stuff like this effect the tournament results drastically.
-Matt 
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MBell

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2006, 03:07:10 PM »

Just to add, if everyone is fair and honest their is no need for this rule.  It's sad that I feel this rule is necessary, it's the reason I am no longer fishing with some organizations.
-Matt
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dhuff

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 03:18:53 PM »

I also feel that this rule may be needed.  I have seen the same thing happen a few times this past summer.  It got to the point that guys were afraid to take a 14'' fish up to the scales.  I don't care what it is whenever money is on the line and you get a bunch of people competing for it, cheating is a high posibility.  It is sad but fact.  If every one was honest  then this would not be needed. However, we do not live in aperfect world.  So rules are thought of to keep the playing field as honest and fare for all competitors.
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Grandbass

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Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 03:46:04 PM »

Thanks for the responses. This rule was basically made because of a incident at our classic last year and they didnt want to put all the pressure on the TD. Especalliy when a team acts like babies and makes a sceen. I have mixed feelings about this rule. I see loop holes. Dont get me wrong I belong to a great club we have all been friends for years but in the end we are fishing for money. Everyone knows and is aware of the bump rules that our club has so if you bring in a sqeeker its your own fault if that fish doesnt measure not the TD. People need to be aware everyone bumps fish differently and everytime there is a probelm you dont need to mask it with another rule.
Joe
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djkimmel

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Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2006, 01:21:39 AM »

I guess the concern I would have it that anglers feel it is needed in the first case. Not a good sign. I quit fishing one evening circuit years ago because it became apparent that fish were measured differently for the TD's 'lackeys' verses the rest of us.

He counted a fish that became the only other keeper 'caught' in that particular tournament besides the 2 my partner and I had. Their bass wasn't even close.

My partner and I told him that it was obvious the bass was short and he told me he was the TD and the bass counted. That was all I said - one time, but I would not fish with them again. There were several other incidents that brought this to a head.

Tournaments and tournament directors in particular have to have the highest ethics if they want to have participants and keep enjoying our sport. It should be easy for everyone to understand.

I'm thinking if you have one bump measure protest - what if the angler still isn't happy? You have a bump protest court of appeals? And then, I guess you would need a supreme bump protest court...? And then possibly a rule about the president of the group pardoning the loss of weight if all protests are exhausted? Kind of seems like another slippery slope to me.
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Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

canvsbk

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2006, 12:09:25 PM »

 I think the TD has to have complete control of all that goes on. You guys have all seen it good and bad but the bad TD's you stay away from, even though most do a great job.
 Courtesy bump for sure - protest bump, no way.
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MBell

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2006, 06:11:08 PM »

I've seen what Dan mentioned, a td bumping his own fish.  Any organization I've fished where the director fished, someone else bumped the directors fish if needed.  The organization that I've seen the problems with, the director bumps his own fish.  I would just like to have an attempt to have someone like a co-director which most have be able to bump the fish in a dispute.  I also think that in some of these evening events some directors don't have good enough eyes to see a close fish in low light.  With so many circuits around, I just take my money elsewhere.  By the way what do most consider a courtsey bump?  Most courtesy bumps are just use of offical measuing board, but I've seen where you get 1 fish to run by the director before your fish are turned in.   
-Matt
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djkimmel

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Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2006, 11:04:00 PM »

Courtesy bump is not a tightly defined item. It might be a valuable thing to standardize what this means in a way that helps everyone and would be adopted by tournament directors.
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Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

fiker

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Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2006, 08:52:23 AM »

My only experience with TD's (other than Dan) was with a Tuesday night league this past summer.
We had a courtesy bump rule.  If I brought a fish to the scales that I thought was "on the line" so to speak, I could ask him to bump prior to my "official" weigh in.  He would render his opinion with no penalty should the fish be short.
I guess I was lucky as I never questioned the TD's integrity, nor his honesty.  I also thought that he ran a fair and impartial contest every Tuesday.
 I guess that there are cheaters wherever you go.  But, in my limited experience I've never run into one. If, and or when I do, I will not fish with that individual again.   The fishing community isn't that large that word doesn't get around.  Cheaters will soon be well known. 
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Dan

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2006, 09:48:31 AM »

My two cents on this subject after having been involved with a variety of tournament groups over the years is that you need to have an official word. We have a weighmaster and he is the only one allowed to touch the fish. He will do his best to get the fish to measure including flipping it from side to side and squeezing the tail. The weighmaster does not weigh his own fish or measure them. We have the TD or another official do that. We have had times where the fish is very close and then the weighmaster may call up the TD for a look. Their decision is final. There is no protesting. Tournament director and weighmaster have the final say period. We do offer a courtesy bump, but only one. If you are bringing up that many squeakers we can't hold up the weighing and stressing the fish any more than absolutely necessary. In my experience, if you are using the golden rule stick to measure and you do a good job of measuring yourself prior to bagging your fish you shouldn't be worried about a bump. You can't be afraid to DQ a fish and must allow the weighmaster to do the job. When the other anglers know you are going to do a good job on the bump it eliminates problems rather than causes them. I can't recall in 20 years of doing tournaments where there has been problem. Bumping fish that are real close takes time and it slows the weighin so it is also important not to let too many anglers bring up fish. Controlling the number of bags is very important.
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BigSmallie

Re: Bump Rules
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2006, 02:55:51 PM »

 ??? STUPID.....STUPID......RULE!!!

How to weigh-in fish at a tournament:

1) Courtesy Bump.

2) Once you turn your fish over to the TD....it is now his fish.

3) TD measures.

4)  Weigh-in is now DONE!

The only reason to have a rule like this is if.......wait.......there is no reason to have a rule like this!!  It's STUPID!

The anglers NEED TO CORRECTLY MEASURE THEIR FISH before they turn them over to the TD!!!!    Wow!!

If there is a problem with the TD they are trying to address........they need to address this by not voting the current TD back in office!
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