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Author Topic: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR  (Read 8412 times)

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Mojo

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Read this common sense article that changed  my mind on CIR and CDR vs a closed season:

http://fishing.about.com/od/bassfishing/a/catching_bedding_bass.htm

Specifically read how males will actually turn on their fry and begin to eat them.

"One of the most controversial things bass fishermen do, and it is happening right now, is catching bass off the beds. Tournament fishermen target big spawning females and some have perfected tactics to catch them. This is the time of year those big females are easiest to catch.

Catching Bedding Bass Bad?

Is catching bass off the bed a problem? At first glance it seems taking a big female off the bed before she can spawn or catching a male guarding bass fry soon after the spawn would cause problems. And it might mean the loss of that bed and those fry that year. But what are the long term effects of bed fishing?

First you must understand nature and reproduction of wild fish. To have a successful life and keep bass populations stable a female bass has to produce only two offspring her whole life.
She must produce a young bass to replace her and one to replace the male. Not each year, but only one time in her life.

Even without catching bass off the bed almost no eggs will survive and produce a bass that will live more than one year if the population is stable. Nature does not work that way. If many survived they would overpopulate and starve. So even if you take a female off the bed and she does not produce any young after being caught, she may have produced offspring in years past. And there are always many other bedding females that can take up the slack.

Since almost all bass caught in tournaments are released alive after weigh-in many of the females will complete the spawn even after being caught. It depends on where they are in their egg laying cycle when they are caught. And the male will eat his own offspring after guarding them. It seems at some point his parent feelings run out and he starts feeding on his own fry. So if you catch him just before he starts eating his young more of them survive.

Sight fishing for bedding bass is what is usually condemned, but the same people blasting sight fishermen will often happily drag a Carolina rigged lizard through spawning flats to catch bass. If you don't like bed fishing for bass, don't do it. But be aware it has not had any impact on our public waters in all the years we have been tracking bass populations in Georgia since 1978 data collecting measure began"

« Last Edit: May 26, 2012, 05:01:21 PM by Mojo »
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djkimmel

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Re: A great argument to have C&DR - common sense and facts
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2012, 03:06:44 PM »

Common sense and facts have had little to do ever with closed bass seasons in the North country. Little to do with lots of regulations actually.

I have seen the male bass eat their own fry. I'm not going to catch the male to make them stop doing it. I throw them all right back anyway.

I will catch some of them because I love fishing, catching bass, trying new things, new waters, being on the water and in the outdoors, and by being able to fish as much as I can, I keep a strong desire to see that we have a clean and healthy environment so bass can continue going on, doing what they've been doing successfully for a long, long, long time.
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Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

Mojo

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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 10:13:00 PM »

Anyone else beside Dan have an input on this. ?
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mikesmiph

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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 03:34:20 AM »

The facts have always been out there. Its like Dan says. Its getting the facts to make a difference in peoples minds that matters. Too many people make decisions with their heart or wallet, not their brain.
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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 07:35:14 AM »

None of this matters as long as politics makes the decisions.  I think the last time Michigan's resources were managed by science was the change to the 14 inch size limit on bass - I might even be wrong about that ... end result is that the resources SHOULD be managed by science!
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SethV

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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 09:04:58 AM »

Anyone else beside Dan have an input on this. ?


Confirms what I have been saying (along with most of the real bass fishing states) that the season is silly.  In general bass are not a "catch and keep" species like walleye or perch, there is just no need to put a season on them.  All it does is reduce fishing opportunity and reduce revenue for the state.  It gets harder and harder to justify the boat, truck, garage, tackle, ect for 4 months a year of use.
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Manxfishing

Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 07:49:53 PM »

Anyone else beside Dan have an input on this. ?


I do very well with the Gulp Fry worm right after the spawn
So, those guarding parent instincts do go out the window very fast.

My thought has allways been
The laws we have on the books were for the days when people didn't pratice C&R
Now days, Sure there's a few bobber fishermen taking bass home
But the hard core bass fishing guys don't take Bass home, Hell most don't even own a fillet knife.

Fry are bait. That's why they lay so many






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djkimmel

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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 09:50:07 PM »

Might be another avenue to make some progress into the light of modern times. I wish I had more time to work on this but it still needs a coalition of anglers to convince the right people to move forward even if budgets are real tight and staff is real short. Keeping on the path we have been on obviously isn't working. I hope more keep recognizing that.

On a good note, I got a call from a deputy commissioner from another state DNR the other day about how much he is looking forward to coming to fish our Lake St. Clair this August. Maybe I can talk to him a little to see if he knows any of our DNR personally in exchange for some fishing info? :)
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

bob o

Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2012, 08:42:46 AM »

Might be another avenue to make some progress into the light of modern times. I wish I had more time to work on this but it still needs a coalition of anglers to convince the right people to move forward even if budgets are real tight and staff is real short. Keeping on the path we have been on obviously isn't working. I hope more keep recognizing that.

On a good note, I got a call from a deputy commissioner from another state DNR the other day about how much he is looking forward to coming to fish our Lake St. Clair this August. Maybe I can talk to him a little to see if he knows any of our DNR personally in exchange for some fishing info? :)

Dan, is the Deputy Commissioner fishing with you or a group of people? I'm sure we could get a few boats together and take some other DNR people out at the same time, kinda make a st clair bass season lobbying get together catch and release/paper tourny.
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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2012, 12:54:43 AM »

You know... I was thinking I might offer to trade some specific Lake St. Clair fishing info for a little DNR powwow? He might have other friends here? Glad we think alike.

I think he is coming with a small group or a friend and just wants to catch some bigger smallies. But, you never know where meeting new people can lead? He was 'handed over' to me from an old BASS federation conservation director from Kentucky that I met through those channels way back. They were hanging out together. Buddies. Fishing buddies! Can you imagine if we were fishing buddies with people that high up in our MDNR? I can. Might take a little work yet... Us and them could use some more getting to know each other.

I think someone actually made a chink in the armor late this week but I will wait a while to see what happens before risking getting too many hopes up. (It might intersect with another 'chink' created by the goodwill of some proactive bass anglers taking someone bass fishing and doing some of that getting to know stuff I mentioned above.) I always see progress now. You sometimes have to really look hard to see it but it is there. Still really slow at times but not quite as slow as it used to be.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

Mojo

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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2012, 01:08:42 AM »

Look - Maybe Im naive and have high hopes, but my proposal needs economic $$$$s, a ppt presentation, and an audience with my local state rep. If we can find just 2 or 3 MDNR who are supportive, and have them meet with my rep, I believe we can get a bill put together by this fall targeting the change for the 2014 season.
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djkimmel

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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2012, 01:31:40 AM »

I don't think anyone has said that about you?

Anyone can call their state rep and request a meeting. I've done it in the past a number of times. Even met with my congressman once. There may be MDNR people who are supportive in private. I don't know if you can get them to meet with you and your rep but you or anyone else is more than welcome to try.

My advice to bass anglers, especially organized bass anglers and clubs, has always been to get to know your local MDNR fisheries person, even CO's, and make them your friend. Take them fishing. A few people and clubs have done that and I say thank you to them for everyone. People familiar with each other are a lot more likely to get something done than strangers.

If you can get your state rep to do a bill, that's great. That is one option. In general, many of them will still ask the MDNR fisheries and law division for their opinion on these types of things. Not all state reps all the time but in general. Usually, such a bill would be referred to the most appropriate House or Senate committee so it pays to know those people too if you take that route. They can sit on a bill or they can help it move. People who know those people often lobby them to stall or move a bill.

They may also still ask MUCC what they think too so it pays to get to know MUCC. Be a member. Have your club join. Attend the fisheries committee meetings. Maybe get elected to the MUCC Board of Directors.

These are all things that can be helpful or involved in these types of changes. Right now, I cannot personally pursue many of these options. I am pursuing some still but only what I can reasonably do at this time. I have done many of the above things in the past and have talked about them before on this forum, to clubs, to federations.

I always try to offer advice and speak from my own past experiences in this arena. I never tell you or anyone else you can't do this or that. My saying there are other options or other possibilities doesn't stop anyone from trying any variation. I think I have mentioned several times recently to people on here that if you know someone or have contacts, use them. If you want to call your local MDNR person and ask questions or tell them what you would like to see, then do that. Same goes for your elected officials.

If you or anyone else has a worthwhile avenue or an available option/idea to pursue, then by all means, pursue it. There are often many ways to get to the same end result. I still won't stop mentioning other things to consider or know about, and other possibilities. With knowledge comes power, I've been told. And Bob Newhart said, 'do something.' I really like that. If more people just 'do something' things are more likely to actually happen. I'm definitely not asking anyone to do anymore than I can do or saying you have to do ALL the things above. Like most of you, my first priority is figuring out how to take care of my family and pay my bills, but yeah, do something.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2012, 01:34:48 AM by djkimmel »
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

bob o

Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2012, 08:28:51 AM »

They may also still ask MUCC what they think too so it pays to get to know MUCC. Be a member. Have your club join. Attend the fisheries committee meetings. Maybe get elected to the MUCC Board of Directors.


i have a connection with a couple "big wigs" at MUCC that are teething at the bit to help out i just need a time and place for a meeting
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djkimmel

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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2012, 02:52:14 PM »

Ask them to get added on as guests for this Tuesday, June 12 10:00 AM MDNR Warmwater Resources Steering Committee meeting then. It is in Lansing at the MDNR Mason building in the Fisheries Division 8th Floor East Conference Room.

If they don't already know how to contact the Fisheries Division, then have them contact me tomorrow. If they can't make it, then they should still contact me so I can tell them what is on the agenda and see what they think about it.

MUCC used to be up on and aware of all these things. I wonder if their fisheries committee is maybe still somewhat inactive since the person who used to keep it going passed away? I haven't had time to check on its status in a while.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

bob o

Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2012, 08:15:52 PM »

i'll see what there schedule has planned for them
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reneekuna

Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2012, 04:45:55 PM »

interesting share!
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renee

fishes_everyday

Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 10:46:00 AM »

I dont think there should be a season on Bass but, the regs should still apply for length and things like that, or if a female still has eggs then she should be released. with that said, my son and I fish everyday here in Holland (almost everyday) and we catch and release everything. I do not have the desire or the time to keep the fish I catch and gut and clean them. we take pictures and post them. thats good enough for me. I have my 9 year old son believing that if you throw a fish back after catching it, he will thank you by biting on your hook again cause he knows you are not going to take him home ....lol. when I catch a fish and someone else says they want it, I usually give them a dumb look and toss it back in the water and say " catch it and you can have it" ( im kind of a doosh that way)... when someone is hunting deer I dont ask them if i can have it.....why would fish be any different?
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djkimmel

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Re: A great article on why there should be no season or to have C&DR
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 03:09:34 PM »

I rarely keep fish to eat. I used to give fish away years ago. Not bass. Never liked that taste of bass very much since I'm not a big fish eater anyway and I like to let them go. Mostly gave away salmon and lake trout when I did more of that kind of fishing. Salmon only live a few years and lake trout would often be dead or near dead when caught real deep. The big water anglers I would go with never threw any of those back. Always had lots of people waiting in line for those fish but I rarely fish for them now and usually only river fishing the few times I do.

I sometimes kept walleye or perch and then gave them away if we decided we didn't want to eat them once I got home. I would usually only keep enough for 1, or maybe 2, meals. Since we rarely eat fish now, I just throw whatever back unless I'm fishing with someone who really wants the walleye or perch, something like that. That's okay. They were nice enough to take me fishing or go fishing with me. They have to clean the fish!

If I catch a catfish and someone on shore or nearby asks for it, I will usually give them the fish if I can get to them without too much issue. If someone wants a non-gamefish (I consider catfish a gamefish), I don't mind giving those away either. Again, if I can get to the person without too much trouble.

Especially don't mind giving away carp. There's no shortage of carp anywhere. When I was a wee lad, we used to bury carp from the Flint River into the garden as fertilizer. Worked good. We even ate some from some lakes. Never a favorite of mine. Strong, earthy taste quite often. Even from clean, cold water, they just didn't taste real good to someone who is pretty picky about fish in the first place. We canned some but canned a lot more suckers. They were okay to eat but not high on my list either. I give away regular suckers if someone wants one. I don't catch them very often so not much opportunity to do that.

Don't usually get people asking about panfish and I rarely put them in the livewell unless the person I'm fishing with really wants them. Then, they are already taken.

I don't think it is a bad gesture to sometimes give someone a fish to eat. I just pick and choose what type of fish I'm willing to give away, and only give one on the rare occasions to another angler who seems friendly and maybe not having the greatest luck fishing. Usually, if there aren't a bunch of anglers around all wanting the fish. Hard to play favorites. Safer to let the fish go and tell them now, maybe than can catch it too. But I try to be friendly about it no matter what. We are all anglers after all.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.
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