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Author Topic: TBF and FLW membership renewals  (Read 8717 times)

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dashaver63

TBF and FLW membership renewals
« on: October 16, 2009, 04:49:20 PM »

I just got email from the Ohio TBF that effective January 1st FLW dues will be paid through the club along with TBF and any state dues. This plus now the clubs will be responsible to handle this with the online TBF system before Dec.30 since the one year memberships expire December 31st. Also, the TBF "discounted" FLW membership renewal will end effective January 1st, and that means we now pay the regular $35.00 annual membership cost. I'm thinking instead of going through all that, just to rejoin BASS, plus BASS is only $17.50 compared to $35.00.
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dashaver63

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 06:52:37 AM »

Dan, could you look into this. From what I understand, FLW is doing this to ensure all TBF members are also FLW members. BASS doesn't do this in their federation. It doesn't make sense to me is all.
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djkimmel

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2009, 06:25:48 PM »

BASS had the same requirements with the BASS federation nations. When I was on the board, we would hear about it when they were upset about getting club rosters from us that had more members than they had. They expected all federation members to be BASS federation AND BASS members which would compare to TBF Inc and FLW Outdoors membership.

In the past, we used to get lists from the BASS national federation department telling us about members they knew about who were not BASS members. They have been fairly aggressive to not very aggressive with this over the years during the time I was on the Michigan board.

BASS always controlled all of their dues 'for us' in the past using it for the insurance and the divisionals basically. BASS also controlled all of the sponsor money/support they collected in the name of the federation program.

TBF Inc (national office) is the body trying to assure 100% FLW Outdoors membership because it is part of their partnership contract with FLW. TBF Inc is trying to be more aggressive because they control themselves, their own funding and their own sponsorship deals. A large part of the FLW dues that FLW collects up until December 31 is rebated to TBF Inc for major operating expense.

More FLW members that join because of TBF means more money for TBF programs that can be shared with the states and used to advance outdoors programs. FLW dues for TBF members collected after 12/31 are not rebated to TBF. If TBF continues to fail to get near 100% FLW membership, they could lose their nice contract with FLW Outdoors. In these trying times, you don't want to make things harder.

This would mean TBF would have to raise their own national dues of only $15 if they don't do a good job of collecting all dues in a timely manner. TBF Inc's great partnership with FLW Outdoors has allowed many enhancements to their programs and getting sponsorship deals through FLW recommendations. That is one of the key differences in the two federations - FLW puts TBF together with potential partners and says, "work out your own deals" whereas ESPN/BASS works out deals 'for' their federation nations and does not share full details with the federations. They just say, "here's your share" (sometimes). That is a fundamental difference between the two. TBF controls their own destiny. BASS federation nations are reliant on what ESPN/BASS doles out. Either way can work, but I have always preferred to control my own destiny when I can.

Here's what I'm aware of as far as dues between the two at this time as far as Michigan:

BASS fed nation membershipTBF membership
Michigan fed nation dues  $25TBF of Michigan dues  $15 (before 12/31)
BASS Federation Nation dues  $20TBF Inc dues  $15
BASS dues  $17.50 (new members $15)FLW Outdoors dues  $35
Total  $62.50Total  $65

I received some confusing information recently from the TBF of Michigan president Jeff Cox that states TBF of Michigan dues are $40 now (state plus national), but that has so far been the full price if paid AFTER January 1, with it being $30 before 12/31. I am not aware of any board or membership action that has changed that so I'm holding off with my club until it can be clarified since I've talked to several board members who are also unaware of some of the changes he's recently announced.

Included is some confusion about the TBF FLW discount. My information says you can still get the $25 membership until January 1, 2010 which would make TBF total dues cheaper than BASS for even a new member, but other information makes it sound like you will be charged the full $35 by the online system. So I have to get that clarified.

I don't know for sure what BASS membership renewal dues are right now. I'm a life member of both and they don't advertise that until you sign up. I've seen from $15 for new all the way up to $25 for a renewal. It appears renewals are $17.50 right now according to dashaver63. I've adjusted the costs above.

Guess it all comes down to joining the federation (TBF) that owns itself and controls its own destiny or the BASS federation nation that is somewhat controlled by BASS/ESPN. And of course, I'm aware of all the other various reasons members state they lean one way or the other having been a long time member involved at local, state and national levels of both organizations. I expect things will appear bumpy for a while yet as all that sorts out. More so in Michigan than other states.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 05:14:15 PM by djkimmel »
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

dashaver63

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2009, 07:32:16 PM »

Thanks Dan, the information I got from the Ohio TBF was very incomplete and hard to understand. Now about the TBF wanting each club to handle their own renewals on their on-line system. Is that correct?
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dashaver63

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 03:33:30 PM »

I'm thinking instead of going through all that, just to rejoin BASS, plus BASS is only $17.50 compared to $35.00.

The Bass Federation and the BASS Federation Nation are both "bass federations", but are separate and distinct. I don't see how joining one would be an alternative to the other. Each serves its own members for its own purposes. They are quite similar in their missions to promote bass angling, youth fishing, and resource conservation. I belong to both federations and benefit more than I could by choosing only one.

I received some confusing information recently from the TBF of Michigan president Jeff Cox that states TBF of Michigan dues are $40...I am not aware of any board or membership action that has changed that so I'm holding off with my club until it can be clarified since I've talked to several board members who are also unaware of some of the changes he's recently announced.

As a TBF of MI chapter president, I have not received any official announcement by email or other method or seen any official notice at the TBF of MI website regarding dues amounts for 2010.

The by-laws require that "The amount of the dues will be determined by the Board of Directors at the first board meeting of the year."

In which meeting were the dues determined? For which year were they determined? Where are the minutes from recent meetings that might verify this process?

A by-laws amendment has been proposed for the upcoming November general meeting to change that portion of that by-laws to read "The amount of the dues will be determined by the Board of Directors." That change would allow the board to make ongoing adjustments as warranted by current circumstances.

Included is some confusion about the TBF FLW discount. My information says you can still get the $25 membership until January 1, 2010 which would make TBF total dues cheaper than BASS for even a new member, but other information makes it sound like you will be charged the full $35 by the online system.

I contacted FLW Outdoors today regarding renewing my membership. The lady I spoke with explained that, as a TBF member, I must renew my 2010 FLW membership in conjunction with my 2010 TBF membership. She also clarified the purpose of the $10 promotional discount in 2009, which was to help coordinate the calendar-year basis of dual memberships. She confirmed that the promo is not valid for 2010.

I hope this helps explain things to some degree. I am waiting for official announcements and looking forward to the upcoming meeting.

Eric Bond
TBF Mastermind

I was thinking of just not rejoining TBF, and I won't be joining Federation Nation. Ohio's federations are not what they used to be. We have gone from 100+ boats at the regional level to 25 or so the past couple years. Add to that the fact we already pay 40.00 membership dues to the state, 50.00 entry fee's for all 3 state events with no payback and then the state teams get no help from the state federation for travel. I don't know how much money the the states get from TBF, but thats a lot of operating money for a non-profit organization. I'm sure each state is different, and from what I've seen and read Michigan's is ran a whole lot better than Ohio's is.
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djkimmel

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2009, 04:42:10 PM »

I received something like 6 copies of an email blast from Jeff Cox stating a $40 membership he wanted by December 15th for members to fish the state championship in July for free. I was not aware that not every club got that message since I received multiple copies. Guess you should ask why you did not recieve this same information?

I'm not posting any official notice or contacting my club members until I find out what is going on at the November 1 meeting since I was not aware that the $30 dues before December 31, 2009 had changed and at least some of the board members were also not aware.

Bylaws can only be changed at the one mandatory meeting in April by vote of the members. We can't change the bylaws in November and I'm not aware of such a proposal. It would have to be sent to the TBF secretary by the February board meeting who would send it to the clubs prior to the April meeting for vote in April.

dashaver63, I have heard BASS may be raising their memberships for 2010 also, but do not have any specifics on that. I would post it if I had specifics or clarify if I find out this is not true. If money is no object, I would belong to all organizations that help out bass fishing and the outdoors. I realize that is tough for many now, but hope everyone does what they realistically can when they are able.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 04:48:23 PM by djkimmel »
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

djkimmel

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2009, 04:48:31 PM »

Eric, I did not know you had such a sense of humor. Calling yourself TBF Mastermind is funny considering almost every single proposal you put out has been overwhelmingly voted down. If you are serious, then I apologize.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

dashaver63

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2009, 04:59:20 PM »

I checked with BASS over the week end to see how much it would cost me to re-new and it was 17.50. My reasoning was that I currently do not have a TBF club to join since mine folded up last year, and have no interest in trying to find another one. As I said, there are so many issues with the Ohio Federation. Thats one reason clubs are either just folding or joining BASS again. I really enjoyed my time with the TBF untill the past 3 years, State events were fun because there was so much competition, now it's like any other club tournamnet we fish. Not to mention all the bickering between the directors and fishermen nowadays over money, it really isn't fun anymore.
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djkimmel

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2009, 05:11:28 PM »

I'm sorry to hear that. It takes good leaders willing to sacrifice their valuable time to make things work real well. It helps if members are involved and knowledgeable quite a bit also.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

dashaver63

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2009, 05:38:55 PM »

It all boiled down to leadership, directors and members not being able to find some middle ground where everyone was happy. Not much give in Ohio from the top people, nor much explanation on the direction the State decided to take on different issues. All I ever wanted to do was to go fishing! Now that I'm addicted to tournaments, I'll have to find my fix elsewhere I guess. Joining you guy's is still an option this year yet. Where's your state championship at?
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djkimmel

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2009, 06:28:15 PM »

My understanding is that is is July 11 on Muskegon Lake. I expect to have more complete details after the November 1 member meeting.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

Team houston

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2009, 06:51:35 AM »

Dan what time is that meeting?
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djkimmel

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 01:59:10 PM »

The November 1 TBF members meeting is 1 PM at Bass Pro Shops Auburn Hills upstairs in archery room.

I know what the dues have been up until April 2009. The confusion appears to be that Jeff Cox was not able to be at that meeting due to a family emergency. He was elected president at the end of the meeting by phone. He has not seen a complete set of minutes for the meeting and there may be some confusion about what occurred or didn't occur. I guess some are getting older and forgetful. I have detailed notes of all meetings I refer to when needed. I talked to Jeff about my notes and his plans.

At this point, I would suggest a good turnout at the November meeting where we can all get back on the same page, discuss proposed plans and vote our preferences. That's what I plan to do.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

motocross269

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 09:26:59 PM »

OK...What is the bottom line for us FLW/TBF members as far as when and how to pay our dues....40 bucks I got that no problem..We have Registration coming up for both Stren and the BFLs and TBF members get pref. so it is important that this is ironed out pretty soon..

Last year I paid my dues through EBA...I will pay to whatever club needs the number to keep their status....
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djkimmel

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2009, 10:08:40 PM »

It looks like most members will need to pay $75 to a club if the board gets what they appear to be asking for (despite bylaw contradictions) added to the new requirement for TBF clubs to collect FLW membership now.

I will not be updating my The Bass Boys page and collecting membership until right after the November 1 meeting because I'm not sure what will happen. Nothing? Or a backlash? Whimper? Or a shout? I don't want to collect the wrong amount as some clubs have and have to refund money or ask for more.

The TBF board wants
$25 state dues
$15 national dues
$35 FLW dues
$75 total payable by 12/15/09

moto, if you were a TBF member in 2009 you should still be okay because your membership in everything should be good until 12/31/09 already. The upcoming membership is for 2010, good beginning January 1, 2010. Would have nothing to do with TBF incentives that occur before that date.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

motocross269

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2009, 12:31:59 AM »

Dan, I thought I would be good last year also..(As far as the National FLW)...I went to register for the LSC tournament as soon as they opened the BFLs in early December and I had to renew my membership in order to sign up....(online).  So if we have to pay for everything in one package it could cause issues....
Not a real big thing for me because I am not sure what I am going to commit to for next year but it could be for some of the serious sticks out there....

Update...I went online to try to renew, It said that I had to renew through my club..My expiration date is 12/31/09(FLW)..I would assume it was probably the same month/date as last year...Last year I had problems registering for tournaments in 09 with an 08 expiration during the BFL December Registration. I distinctly remember having to jump out of the registration screen to renew my membership..HMMMMMM!!!  
« Last Edit: October 21, 2009, 03:36:12 AM by motocross269 »
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djkimmel

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2009, 01:41:48 PM »

Maybe they've thought of that ahead of time this year. I will ask if you want me to. I've already got them talking. What's one more question? I would hope they've discussed this since the timing will never synch up on the two unless we all have to have out next year's membership in by the end of September in the future. That doesn't seem to me to be a great solution. Of course, there's always some bumps when ever something is changed or new it seems everywhere.
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Help stop invasive spcies. Don't move fish between unconnected bodies of water. Clean, drain and dry your boat before launching on another water body.
Unless clearly stated as such, opinions expressed by Dan Kimmel on this forum are not the opinions or policies of Michigan BASS Nation or TBF of Michigan.

cameraguy

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Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2009, 07:53:58 PM »

For those that did not receive it, I received this bulk e-mail from TBF of MI, sent by Jeff Cox.

I would like to thank all of you for the time that you take out to read this info about the TBF.  I have had some questions and concerns with some of the changes that are happening in the TBF of Michigan and National.  Alot of these question revolve around increases of dues both state and nationaly with the FLW. 

     First I will talk about the easy one.  FLW is raising there dues 10.00 across the board for all members, there are a few exceptions.  Lifetime members are exempt,  Multi year members will not see an increase until there time is up.  And those that have FLW memberships that expire between now and Dec 30 can re up for 25.00 plus 3.00 per month through Dec 31. so if your card reads Nov.14 then you can re up for 31.00 and that will be good through DEC31 2010 anyone whos card expire DEC 31 2009 will pay the increase and this is like 90% of FLW members.     
     Second the more confusing one.  I am trying not to get to indepth but I might have to.  I sat down with presidents of other TBFs and was discussing membership these states have between 400 and 2700 members I was trying to figure out why as a state with so many fisherman Michigan could only average around 130 members over the past 3 or so years.  While talking to the Presidnts it came out that we charge 100.00 for our state fish off,  most of these states charge between 0.00 and 40.00 they could not see why too many people would want to pay 160.00 to fish one tournament with the payback being able to go fish another tournamnet even tough the prizes there are great.  I brought that idea home and talked to people about supporting the TBF to see if we could make mebership grow.  We figured if the fish off was free we would be able to grow easily.  When I did the numbers I used dues @25.00 that is what I always paid my fault! this is where questions are coming up I screwed up and I am sorry to all of you.  The group of people have committed to me that our state team will be funded if we fall short of where we need to be.  If we can get membership up enough we can keep it free for years to come.  For the plans to go on correctly I will need to raise the dues to 25.00 across the board.  I will not do this without a vote from the board and without hearing from those for and against it.  I can say though for the state fish off to be free next year this will need to happen.  I know that not all TBF members fish the fish off Im not here to argue that but most do, or would if it didnt cost 100.00.
     Again I do not know if this is the right answer all I know is that we have not grown in 3 years.  People complain about the economy jobs money the cost and everything else I always tell my wife Fishing and hunting are like drugs.  Those who fish fish those who hunt hunt if they are low on money they find a way to do it cheaper.  I am just making the TBF cheaper it is simple math last year it cost 160.00 to fish the fish off this year it will be less than 80.00
     Finally if anyone has concerns about this or has any questions please email me

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motocross269

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2009, 09:47:46 PM »

State fish off.....

Just as a measuring stick...BASS also charges 100 dollars for their federation state fish off...Most of the clubs pay their members way by being active on fund raisers...Sponsors, opens etc....

I think it would be detrimental to the overall mission of TBF to ask every member to fund the State fish off...If that is the case then lets call it what it is..."An organization to provide a state fish off"...No more...TBF from my experience is already a "Paper Club" organization and I think that is the root of their struggles.....I think people want to get involved but a sense of a direction seems to be lacking...If we continue to make it all about the state fish off we will continue to have a membership the size of a large tournament here in Michigan...About 150 anglers..

How many Tournament fisherman are there in Michigan...Maybe 250..??? The TBF in Michigan is missing the much larger demographic of weekend fisherman..Those weekend fisherman want to be involved in Conservation and improvement efforts and hanging out with other people with similar interests...The current organization only provides that at a minimal level....(The jr program being one of the shining stars)

Look who sits on the board...pretty much all accomplished tournament anglers so their focus is on Tournaments..Is that the right focus to grow TBF in Michigan...??  I don't know..

This is not a hit on the individuals involved at all and I appreciate your volunteer efforts...It is just an observation from someone that straddles the fence of both a recreational and tournament angler....

Brian Bennett
« Last Edit: October 22, 2009, 03:22:07 AM by motocross269 »
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BrianB

Re: TBF and FLW membership renewals
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2009, 05:44:26 PM »

The TBF of michigan also does alot with the youth of this sport. As the youth director for the TBF. Our youths are growing. Three years ago we had 11 youths this year we are sitting at 75 youths. I am thinking by next year we will be at 100 to 150 kids. The funds that are paid in are just not for The State Championship. Part of that money also goes to the youth and conservation. Not nit picking or tring to start and argument but the TBF is more not just about Tournament fishing the Youth are a big deal to us as well. Wait until our 2010 Junior State Championship.

Brian Belevender
TBF of Michigan
Youth Director
"It's All About the Kids"
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