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Author Topic: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time  (Read 12079 times)

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Savage

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FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« on: February 02, 2006, 05:45:56 AM »

As the February 5th meeting looms closer, many clubs will be deciding soon which way they are going to go forward.? With this is mind, I have some nagging questions that I would like answers to.

This may seem woefully ignorant, but what exactly is the "TBF"?? I know it stands for "THE Bass FEDERATION, INC" but what exactly is that?? I am a member of B.A.S.S., and the Michigan BASS Federation, does that mean I belong to "TBF"?

I have printed and read everything I can find on the subject.? It seems that the "TBF" is leaning towards partnership with FLW.? Is this true?

BassFan has entered the issue, and made some offers.? When I read the BassFan proposal, they say they are nuetral, and would like to help the "Federation" members with a website and other incentives.? They also say they would like to help, no matter who out partner is.? What do they really mean there?? They will give free membership to BassFan Army to anyone who is in the "Federation", but are they only talking about "TBF" when they say "Federation"?? ?

Doug has a great chart on the www.michiganbass.net website that breaks down the two choices.? His chart is a little vague on the new Federation Nation plan for the six teams of six people.? Each state can send 6 teams of 6 people (36 total), but each team is made up of members from the same club.? I have done some research on that subject as well, and it seems that not only will there be the "bass club team" format, but will also send a 12 man state team to the regionals, just as we always have, and that will be the road to getting to the Classic.? The "club team" championship is geared more towards finding the best club team, and they win 6 fully rigged Tritons.? Is all that accurate??

I know this has been long-winded, but we need to get some answers to these questions, and get it all on the table so we can make some informed decisions!? The plans seem fairly even to me, I don't like FLW's desire to lock us in for 5 years, and their insistance on having exclusive sponsorships.? Plus, unless %80 of us move to the FLW plan, the FLW benefits package reduces substantially.? This means that some states, clubs, etc. could move to FLW, only to find that they don't get the package of benefits they were promised.? Sounds like bait and switch.? If I seem to be leaning towards B.A.S.S., I probably am, but I am keeping an open mind for now.

Thanks to all

-Brandon ???
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2006, 08:43:32 AM »

I have the exact same question about the "TBF".  Are they referring to the federation (such as our MI B.A.S.S. Federation)?  Or is the TBF some other organization I've never heard of?  Nothing I've read makes it clear to me.  What am I missing.  Brandon, you're not alone in this one. 
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joshimoto son

Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2006, 09:16:59 AM »

Savage, Revtro

I had to ask those same questions 3-4 weeks ago... in regards to the TBF.

Do you remember the story last fall about the guys that got banned from BASS?

Those were the TBF.

Reginal representatives that was voted into position by all the Federation chapter presidents.

I have read so much on this stuff, I'm starting to get burned out.

But I do not think that any state is required to be affiliated with the TBF.

I'm giving short answers on purpose, I tend to get off topic if I don't.

I know DK is very knowledgable too, are either one of you going to go to BPS on Sunday?

Josh
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2006, 10:11:55 AM »

Sorry for being hard-headed.  I still don't quite get it.  Did the guys who were banned from B.A.S.S. form the TBF?  Or was the TBF a part of the B.A.S.S. Federation?  I'm still unclear whether or not it's two separate organizations.  Thanks for your patience. 
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2006, 10:12:48 AM »

The official deal from BASS has not been presented.  An idea of what they(BASS) are thinking the Federation Nation would include and could provide to its members was presented and from what I have heard, they are revising that plan based on feedback.

Josh is correct regarding the TBF - They are the regional reps that were voted into office and then decided they would become incorporated.  I have a feeling their positions would no longer be voluntary(in other words, they would be hired officers receiving a compensation for their time) under the plan they are going for with the FLW.  This worries me that their desire to obtain a seat at Irwins table is a driving force for them trying to persuade the clubs to follow them to the FLW.  (this is only my thoughts - so please don't quote me)

I am leaning towards working a deal out with BASS, mainly because I do not like the idea of the nations clubs and eventually the whole fishing community falling under the Ranger Nation that FLW will be pushing.  I don't have a problem with Ranger boats, but I don't want the owner of Genmar to be thee same owner of the FLW and have direct control of the Federation.
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 10:21:51 AM »

As with SMBASSMAN...aside from everything else my biggest concern is a monopolization of competitive bass fishing...

I believe the fellas that got banned for life have now been reinstated??

I like having a chance at the classic, but 6 out of 40,000...pretty tough odds.  With FLW we could go to the BFL, then to the BFL Championship, which 1 boater and 1 non-boater would advance to the FLW Championship (or the Forest Woods Championship can't remember??) but that might not be a federation member.  Still though we could work our way up through the ranks of BFL, to Stren, to FLW.

I don't know, I weigh the options all the time...I am still very much on the fence, I hope we all can get a firm understanding of all of this prior to any voting, and I plead with everyone to keep an open mind and listen to both sides carefully.  We need to do the best for the members of the Michigan BASS Federation.

BOTTOMLINE!

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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2006, 10:30:33 AM »

Aha.  So the guys were basically banned because of their notion to become incorporated and trying to bring the clubs in the B.A.S.S. Federation along with them.  Is this correct?  Am I on the right track now?  If the guys who were banned were subsequently reinstated, are they still incorporated as the TBF?  If so, are the various state B.A.S.S. federations automatically affiliated with the TBF?  I assume then that the decisions the TBF makes will end up impacting the state feds?  I think I'm starting to make sense of it now, unless I'm totally off base.  Wouldn't surprise me.  DOH!   :P
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2006, 10:30:33 AM »

I will not be at BPS, I wish I could.  Bound to be interesting ;D

Anyway, if thos eguys are the TBF, what is this about a membership to the TBF?  Obviously some states are members and some are not (Michigan?)
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2006, 11:37:46 AM »

I think!!!!!!...... It is the states decision to allow the TBF to speek for them or in other words... represent them at the national level.
One example, I think it is Texas, that does not want anybody to represent their state except their own president, not a regional rep.
Somebody help me if I have it wrong.

Josh

As far as BASS or FLW, I really feel that I would like to stay with BASS.
There's nothing wrong with playing on the National League, but I prefer to stay with the American League. (That's my baseball analogy)
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2006, 01:40:50 PM »

You have most of it here and correct. TBF was started when BASS and the state federations (all independent companies) decided to try a new approach of 1 representative per region (north, northeast, south, central, west) so the state federation?s elected existing federation president?s ? 1 from each region and then 2 kind of ?at-large? guys to oversee TBF. These are the 7 guys everyone is talking about.

TBF incorporated so they could attempt to arrange industry deals for all the federations as a whole entity. Only the Texas federation decided to not be involved in the TBF. As you know, BASS kicked out and ?fired? these 7 TBF reps. They can?t really fire them because they are their own company and really serve the state federations who want to participate (including Michigan although we have not until recently been very involved with them directly). TBF does ?represent? the Michigan federation, but we are not bound at this time by their agreements unless we choose to be.

When BASS kicked out TBF, they pretty much forced them to look elsewhere for a national deal for the individual participating state federations. I think it was more to do national deals outside of BASS with major sponsors. But with all the uneasiness, FLW saw a chance to make an alternative offer to the state federations through our single ?representative? TBF. I can?t blame them since a fair number of state federations made it clear they were very unhappy with the way things were going. In a number of our most recent communications, BASS staffers have admitted themselves that things could have been handled better. Not just from their end they say, which is probably accurate.

I have not posted many communications I?ve received because things are changing every day to some degree and some have been said in ?the heat of the moment? only to be later regretted (not all) and I see no good in confusing the overall issue with communications that have basically been knee-jerk emotional responses, not addressing the packages and offers.

I also want everyone to make up their own mind based on the actual offers and issues, not because one side or another isn?t very good at writing productive messages. I also don?t want to appear to be forcing my personal opinions on anyone by possibly appearing to post more negative from one side verses the other. Like I?ve said, a lot of ?guests? are reading this board right now and I?m probably not hearing from all of them.

The TBF is leaning towards FLW because BASS will not work with them, only the individual state federations, even though BASS did re-instate these 7 members. BASS? position is to only deal with the elected representatives of the individual state federations. You can imagine relations directly between BASS and TBF would be strained at this time. TBF has chosen to present the FLW offer to us as their arranged offer to state federations that choose to participate. I don?t know that anyone has signed contracts yet.

The BassFan offer is a free media promotional offer in exchange for access to our federation members. I imagine many state federations could use good media help and access. For various reasons, the BassFan offer came through the TBF, but I think (not 100% sure) that we can work with BassFan if we choose regardless of which overall offer we take.

BASS has made it clear recently that individual clubs CAN choose to affiliate with other groups ? like some of our clubs have been MUCC affiliates in the past. So individual clubs could join BASS and FLW. What BASS now says they won?t accept is for the actual state-level elected boards to be affiliated with any other group. I?m not totally clear on this ? I expect it is their attempt to have our Michigan board not try to affiliate with FLW too. I have to wonder though what that means for say an MUCC affiliation, or the BassFan offer.

This is all changing so fast ? more accurately initial vague offers are being fleshed out ? that I have not asked that particular question yet. I will ask.

The new chart up on the Michigan federation web site came from BASS. Doug just added comments to the right without changing what BASS sent out to us. As I say, things are fleshing out daily so it is quite a challenge to keep you all up on everything fast enough. I know Doug intends to have everything we know as of Sunday at the meeting for discussion. The plan is to have copies of everything for each club from what I?ve been told.

The BASS divisional were taken away, but now have been added back in. BASS had proposed the new club championship instead of the divisionals. Even though they put the old divisionals back, it appears they intend to keep the club championship too anyway as a separate and new benefit to chapter members.

Understand that both sides want commitment from the individual state federations. The new BASS Federation Nation also has levels and areas that require we only show their sponsors. There are contractual issues to consider with this for our existing contracts with our own state-level sponsors including several the contradict BASS? national sponsors ? i.e. Ranger, Yamaha and others.

FLW has indicated they may prorate some benefits if they don?t get 80% of members and federations. I?m not sure what will happen there yet. I have received notice that Maryland has voted to stay with BASS. Texas has said all along they don?t participate with TBF so I?m assuming that means they are with BASS. Supposedly, a new group of anglers has signed a BASS Federation Nation agreement in Ohio, replacing the existing Ohio federation. I do not know yet if that is 100% accurate, but I?ve received several notices from both ?sides? indicating that has occurred. That is all I know so far.

This is the real important part ? Regardless of which offer we choose to follow, bylaw changes will be required before we can sign with a new contract with EITHER TBF or the BASS Federation Nation. Bylaw changes cannot be voted on at the same meeting they are proposed. They have to be submitted in writing and voted on at the next meeting and/or (30 days later ? it?s either 30 or 60).

Talk about long-winded :) But this is an important issue for our future.
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2006, 02:18:08 PM »

Dan-

THANK YOU! :)

I think I finally understand the issue at hand.  I'll actually probably print your last post and take it to our club meeting Sunday.  It's too bad that all this emotion and politics is stirred up.  I'm still leaning towards B.A.S.S., because it is what I'm used to and like.  The Classic can't be replaced, no matter what else you call it.  Hopefully we stay with BASS, enjoy the new Federation Nation benefits, and add the BassFan package into the mix.  That all sounds pretty good to me. ;D

That's just my opinion, not trying to sway anyone here, and I'll keep an open mind.
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 03:12:52 PM »

Hope this all shakes out well.  The appealing things of the federation to me have always been the state championship and the chance to qualify for the classic, I hope this will still be around in the future.  Niether side is ideal, I now view them as similar organizations.  Bass has changed in the last few years. 
-Matt
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 03:16:50 PM »

The appeal of the state championship and a chance at the classic is nice.  However,  BASS to me has went down hill in the last few years.  I hater there new schedule of having the Classic in the spring.  That just isn't right.  I always loved it in the dog days of summer when the best of the best got to show their true fish catching skills when the bite was at it's toughtest.  Now it is just going to be everyone bed fishing. 
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 03:26:02 PM »

Dan, your reply totally clears things up for me.  Thanks for taking the time to be so thorough. 

Personally this is going to be a tough decision for me.  I have some of the same frustrations with BASS as dhuff mentioned.  But in fairness, it's going to be important to see all the cards on the table before forming an opinion one way or the other.

Our club has talked a little about affiliation and we were seriously thinking about being a BASS Federation club this year.  But with all the changes to the way BASS does things, we will be discussing all options.  So I imagine this will take some time to decide on the club level no matter what the TBF or state federations decide to do. 
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2006, 06:56:02 PM »

This seem clearer, but it is still confusing.  Say my club,and others, wants to stay with BASS, but the Michigan Federation goes with FLW.  Will another Michigan Federation need to be formed so that we have 2 state federations?
Maybe I will say no to both and just go fishing.  ???

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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2006, 08:57:14 PM »

That's an interesting point.  I can forsee two "federations", one for BASS and one for FLW, so that clubs can choose which they'd like to be affiliated with.  I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that develop.  However, I wonder if there's any chance of the Federation being affiliated with both in the long run???
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2006, 10:06:38 PM »

Ronhuntfish.....I would say yes to that question.  I would guess that the Michigan BASS Federation would have to change its name if they go to FLW.  However, I believe that just staying what we are we are automatically going to be BASS until Constitutional Bylaws are changed in order to change organizations.  As I read the Federation Nation explanation on the web.....it seems that it is automatic because that is what the "Mother Organization" is going to do.  But it seems to me that Constitutional Bylaws must be changed and then voted on by the membership.  I vote to stay with BASS.  They are the original and in my mind the ELITE of this sport.   Just my opinion.

BD       ;D
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2006, 01:12:02 AM »

Two federations has already happened in at least two states - Ohio and Pennsylvania. Maybe others. BASS says clubs can affiliate with whomever they want and how ever many, but BASS still wants a state organization to deal with, and they are saying the state level officers can only affiliate with them if they want to be a BASS Federation Nation affiliate. I'm awaiting some type of response on how this affects our ability to affiliate with say MUCC or BassFan.

BASS has made it clear they will help clubs and/or members start up new federations if their existing 'board' goes to FLW. Six clubs in Pennsylvania did that. And now, supposedly, a group of anglers has become a BASS Federation Nation affliate in Ohio (although I was not aware the existing Ohio federation had officially notified BASS they had gone with FLW - not sure what exactly happened there).

We need bylaw changes in Michigan even if we decide to 'stay' with the new BASS Federation Nation. We also need to figure out what we will do with existing Michigan federation contracts that might conflict with BASS Federation Nation requirements. We definitely have to decide one way or the other or we won't be with anyone at the state level.

If the Michigan federation were to leave BASS, we could not use BASS (maybe) or B.A.S.S. and their logos. I believe we could be (instead of the Michigan B.A.S.S. Chapter Federation) the Michigan Bass Federation just like TBF is The Bass Federation. That is something that would require a bylaw change too I believe.
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2006, 10:36:04 PM »

Thanks Dan,
I too appreciate the time you put into this. Things are about as clear as they can be and we will just have to wait and see how all the offers shake out and make an informed decision. Nowadays it's tough in any endeavor to get away from the politics. It becomes a necessary evil and one you have to evaluate with a level head. It is very easy to get swept up in a wave of negativism. Lifes too short. So I'll trust the Federation board to make the correct move and then we will all go fishing.
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Re: FLW vs. B.A.S.S. - Decision time
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2006, 11:15:31 PM »

Here are links to two Adobe pdf documents graphically showing the new divisional format and club championship format from BASS.

Road to Classic - Divisional - similar to the old format with one new division.

New Bass Club World Championship chart.
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