Great Lakes Bass Fishing Forum

Just looking to get some feedback on what would have to be done to get 1 BIG SUPER HUGE Open tournament going?  Being the state with the 4th highest tournament participation in the country we should have plenty of oppurtunities for over $10000 paydays but the problem is there is to many guys doing the own things - we should all get together and have 1 BIG BAD BODACIOUS Open!!!

It shouldn't be hard to get together with all the anglers we have; so how can we make this happen?  There should be no reason we can't find a date that we can ALL mark on our calendars - 200 boats at a $100 - $150 a piece - $20,000 - $30,000 to work with plus sponsor carrots would sure be fun. 

Anybody down?  St. Clair, Erie, Sanford, Wixom, Muskegon, Grand - lots of lakes here so what's the best bet to make this happen?  

I would be in. I think to get that many boats it would have to be a singles tourney, but who knows.

I'd be in and to get the most people I'd say it should be on either st. clair or Erie.

I'd say the only way to pull off a tournament(s) like that would be for someone to take the ball and run with it. 100% pre-registration would insure that the prize money could be guaranteed. And starting to take registrations the 1st of the year would give everyone plenty of time to sign upI'd like to see Wixom or the Grand rather than the same people winning on St. Clair or Erie!
So who's up for the challenge of running something like this?

I think those days of 200 boats is over for the forseeable future.  To many tx's!!  Guys dont have to drive far to fish every weekend.  But if you get 199 boats registered on the west side of the state...I will take boat 200.

August 1rst, 2010.  12th Annual Wonderland Marine West open tournament, Lake Erie Metro Park.  More info / flyers to come first of the year.

I'd say run it out of Muskegon.  If the day is right many will run to White, Pentwater, etc...  If the day is a bit rough some will STILL run.  Fishermans Landing can easily handle that many boats, and you can get a tournament day price break on the launch fee... making it only $5 to launch.

It just seems that MANY fishermen/women in Michigan think all the big tournies have to be on the east side.  I think many of those people have never fished on the west side.  Another point is on the East Side you pretty much have to have a Canadien license to open up a lot of the good water.  Asking all the east side guys to buy a Canadien license for just one tournament is a bit skewed (my opinion of course...).  I think the idea is to keep the total expenditure as close to the tournament entry fee cost as possible(not including gas as it would be a wash no matter where the tournament was held... we all HAVE to have gas). 

But as you know ROI... I'm probably in no matter what!!  :D

Quote from: Durand Dan on December 08, 2009, 09:05:11 AM
I'd say the only way to pull off a tournament(s) like that would be for someone to take the ball and run with it. 100% pre-registration would insure that the prize money could be guaranteed. And starting to take registrations the 1st of the year would give everyone plenty of time to sign upI'd like to see Wixom or the Grand rather than the same people winning on St. Clair or Erie!
So who's up for the challenge of running something like this?

I like Wixom because it is somewhat centrally located and it from what I hear fishes great all season; St. Clair & Erie are to weather effected and the Grand gets absolutely hammered all summer long so Wixom is my vote. 

Does anybody know the Top Bass guys because they could surely be of assistance if Wixom is the site?

Advertising is simple with the internet and word of mouth, sponsorship should be easy to lock down if a good amount of guys get involved so you've got 100% payback with additional carrots - this will only work if a good number of anglers get on board so let's start with a potential date that doesn't conflict with any other major date (this will be the hardest part!).  I think we can all agree that this isn't rocket science so lets do it! 

I'm down, Durand Dan is in, Waterfowl is down, markgoetsch is in, billy8878 is ready, Ranger5Smallie is #200, and FOB can get Wonderland involved if he's willing - that's a great start so let's get a date and a lake dialed in so we can get the state of MI back into the BCS of the national tournament scene!

It can be done, but you can pretty much forget about holding a tournament that big on an inland lake. For one, most won't have a launch ramp to accomodate a 200 boat tournament. And two, even the biggest of the inland lakes (Houghton Lake) will become rather crowded with 200 boats. I fished there for two of the NBAA championships, and it was starting to get pretty crowded with 100 boats. Even then, we had to use two ramps. I fished a 50 boat tournament on Wixom, and it got pretty crowded, plus there isn't ramp space there for much more than 50 boats.

For as many boats as you want to draw, you will pretty much be limited to the big water, Erie, St. Clair, Saginaw Bay, Muskegon (with Lk. Michigan open), Grand River (with Lk. MI open). Maybe even one of the northern lakes like Traverse Bay or Charlevoix (with Lk. Michigan open), or Elk and Torch or Burt and Mullet (with the connecting waters).

Where ever you select, you can't be worried about the local favorites. Every body of water will have them. I have never let that stop me from fishng them. While I mostly fish the east side these days, I used to fish the Grand in the days of the 200+ boats in the Charity Classic, and and 150 boat full fields for Tri State. I've also fished in full fields for Tri State and the original Federation on Muskegon. I seems that there were a couple of individuals and teams that always took my money. From what I'm hearing, some of those dudes are still taking the money over there. The kind of money that we're talking, here, will certainly bring them out.

Which ever lake is selected, to draw the kind of field that you are talking, you need to select a body of water where everybody has a chance to catch a lot of fish. That narrows the choices down. I may be mistaken, but, I'm betting that has a lot to do with why Wonderland can draw 200 boats. "FOB" can correct me if I'm wrong.

Having fished both sides of the state, that is why I choose to fish the east side. Guess what? I'm still handing my money over, but I'm having fun catching a lot of fish when I do.

I should add that where ever you decide to have it, I would probably fish it.  ;D

After giving this some more thought, I think that your biggest obstacle will be scheduling. If you look at the tournament calendar (Roy Randolph's calendar is about the most complete there is), you will see that it looks like there are multiple tournaments held every weekend. The challenge would be fitting another tournament into the mix that will not conflict with the existing ones. That may be the single biggest reason that hardly any circuits are drawing big numbers anymore.

Another reason may be that the tournaments, now, are not just "opens". Many are part of a championship or classic series. What that means is that anglers are reluctant to miss one because that would mean losing valuable pionts towards making a championship or classic.

Again, I will use the Wonderland Open as an example. I believe that part of the reason they are able to draw the anglers that they do (besides fishing on what is one of the best bass lakes in North America and a $10,000.00 guaranteed payout) is scheduling. This tournament typically falls on a day when anglers don't have to choose between this one, and their circuit tournament. The anglers know it's going to happen, and when it's going to happen, and I fully believe that they schedule "around" it. 

Sanford lake has a brand new ramp and Parking lot that can hold alot of boats...I don't have a clue where you would launch a large open out of Wixom...Things would be tight on the water through that hole chain if you get more than 100 boats no matter where you go....

Is there any place Around St Joe and Lake Michigan...There is good fishing in the river and out in the Lake there and you could draw some boats out of Illinois and Indiana....

The Marble chain in Coldwater has alot of water but the fishing is tough....

St. Joe is probably not a viable option... the river gets pretty hairy not far from town for a guy running an outboard... especially in summer when the water is on the low side.

The only real options on the east side are:  Holland (run anywhere on L. Michigan), the Grand (ditto), and Muskegon (ditto again).  These are the only places where you could park that many rigs.

Or... there's always Grand Traverse Bay... but it is notoriously rough.

I've been out of most ramps on St. Clair.  Metro or Harley could handle this event.

man vinceR...i was almost getting excited :o- till u reminded me about reality :( :'( your exactly right to the "T".....and it saddens me :'( i barely caught 1 year of full field tri state tournaments and never dreamed that growing bass tournaments, would turn into hundreds of small "derby's"....back then if u wanted to fish for money 90% of the competitors at a tournament came from over a 100 mile drive,not because they wanted to but because that was the only tourney going on.....they also payed nice and top heavy...
 
i think the things that vinceR points out about the wonderland tournament are really the solutions to throwing a 100-200 boat tourney.....no conflicting date with any major trail,i definitely agree that a pre sign-up would be the only way to ensure payouts, i like the single's idea(personally i think these tourney's are the future for hardcore tourney anglers in michigan) i would  liked to see the tourney on sanford/wixom even though i have never been there but if the ramps and water can't hold a 100 boats then my vote would be..........drum roll please........charlevoix.....only because i think it's sort of an untouched (for the most part) destination and it has all the right answers(plenty of water/big ramps/lots of big fish/not very much fishing pressure.........

All that being said.........i'm in anywere anytime.......... ;D

As far as the 100 percent payback......I think guys like to have a number figure thrown out there....If you think that you can raise X amount of money through sponsors then publish it..

Alot of clubs do that for their Charity opens....2000+ dollars guaranteed first place..No matter how many boats...Thats what we do and we cover the 2 grand as much as we can with sponsor money, then pay down from there based on boats plus donate as much as we can to the charity......That is the cool thing about the Wonderland open...10 grand guaranteed(I know quite a bit of that is backed by sponsors)....You know that money is going to be there....No matter what or who shows up...That would motivate anglers...

We paid 2 grand last year on a very small turnout so it can be done...(Thanks to some good sponsor work by some of our members)

Obviously this won't be a charity open so you won't have to worry about paying on that....

I guess the bottom line is...If you tell me that I am fishing for 5-10 grand guaranteed I am going to sit up and take notice....If you tell me it is based on the number of boats and 100 percent payback then that could mean alot of different things as far as the end of the day checks...(Depending on pay formula and how many show up)

I am not being critical but it I believe it is something worth thinking about......

Scheduling would be the big one for me. I work weekends, and have to take time off for any tourneys I fish. Cant interfer with my clubs tourneys either. Big order, I know. Luke, we've talked several times. I like your spirit and dedication to fishing. I will make every attempt to be at anything you put on.I'd even help where I can.

Quote from: Return On Investment Outdoors on December 08, 2009, 10:24:48 PM

Quote from: Durand Dan on December 08, 2009, 09:05:11 AM
I'd say the only way to pull off a tournament(s) like that would be for someone to take the ball and run with it. 100% pre-registration would insure that the prize money could be guaranteed. And starting to take registrations the 1st of the year would give everyone plenty of time to sign upI'd like to see Wixom or the Grand rather than the same people winning on St. Clair or Erie!
So who's up for the challenge of running something like this?

I like Wixom because it is somewhat centrally located and it from what I hear fishes great all season; St. Clair & Erie are to weather effected and the Grand gets absolutely hammered all summer long so Wixom is my vote. 

Does anybody know the Top Bass guys because they could surely be of assistance if Wixom is the site?

Advertising is simple with the internet and word of mouth, sponsorship should be easy to lock down if a good amount of guys get involved so you've got 100% payback with additional carrots - this will only work if a good number of anglers get on board so let's start with a potential date that doesn't conflict with any other major date (this will be the hardest part!).  I think we can all agree that this isn't rocket science so lets do it! 

I'm down, Durand Dan is in, Waterfowl is down, markgoetsch is in, billy8878 is ready, Ranger5Smallie is #200, and FOB can get Wonderland involved if he's willing - that's a great start so let's get a date and a lake dialed in so we can get the state of MI back into the BCS of the national tournament scene!

Here is the Top Bass web site. Steve and Elmer however prefer to run show up and fish tournaments and do a great job. I can remember the last tournament they had on Lobdell had over 65 boats if you can imagine that! There partisapation has wained a bit in the last few years, but they still have strong showings with top anglers.

http://www.freewebs.com/topbass/

  As much as I would like to see a tournament of that size and payback here in my home town on the St Joe river it would never work. The river would fish small and be very tough any time other than the spring and fall. Also unlike running a tournament out of the Grand or Muskegon there is only a few places within a long running distance from the St joe river so the field would not be spread out. There is one launch with alot of parking but if I would have to guess it could handle around 100 rigs maybe more.
  Maybe the best way to get an idea of what would draw the most anglers is start a poll with the lakes that could handle 200 boats and the dates that work around the bigger tournaments and trails in MI. I would be interested if this event was held on Muskegon, St Clair, or even a spring event up north on one of the inland lakes or the big water like they do at Sturgeon Bay. It will be a tough tournament to put together but myself along with many anglers in the area would like to see less of the small trails and more of the bigger events like this.

Another thing that should be seriously considered is lodging. A tournament of this size will mean that a considerable number of anglers will get there by as much as a week ahead of time to pre-fish and familiarize themselves with the water. Even those who don't need a week's worth of pre-fishing will still like to get there the day before. Particularlly those that might have to drive a long distance to get there.

Quote from: VinceR on December 09, 2009, 12:17:16 PM
Another thing that should be seriously considered is lodging. A tournament of this size will mean that a considerable number of anglers will get there by as much as a week ahead of time to pre-fish and familiarize themselves with the water. Even those who don't need a week's worth of pre-fishing will still like to get there the day before. Particularlly those that might have to drive a long distance to get there.

Yes it is 2:24am and I am still thinking about the 2010 tournament season - it's become a little more than an obsession but that is why it is so much fun!!!!!!

Dr. H. Belanger Park 250 parking spots Detroit River

Fisherman's Landing 250+ parking spots  Muskegon Lake

Harley Ensign 349 parking spots St. Clair

Elizabeth Park Marina 215 parking spots Erie

North Channel 158 parking spots St. Clair

As far as lodging goes I know the GM of the Sleep Inn's of Michigan which is part of the Choice Hotel family; we could definitely be looking at some a major discounts on lodging.  I have a few non-fishing related sponsors that would probably be willing to help out so lets get a date and get the ball the ball rolling.  I personally like the Detroit River because it keeps us somewhat protected if there are strong winds, Muskegon Lake is one of the best tournament venues in the state but I think the majority of guys willing to fish something like this would be driving a long way so I leaning towards the River/St. Clair. 

150 boats at $150 a boat; say $25 dollars goes towards Big Bass paying 50/30/20 that would be $1875, $1125, and $750 respectively.

That would leave $18750 left over to pay out on total weight

1st $10000
2nd $3000
3rd $2000
4th $1000
and so on down the line............................

What launch/lake is the winner and what day can we get a majority of guys fishing this?  What about something in September or early October? 

Doesn't P. Sacks have a Shimano Live Release System just begging to be utilized in 150 plus boat event?

Terry where you at?  Lunch Money Open can move up a couple of weeks and become the "Grand Daddy of 2010".  If we build it they will come - sponsors, anglers, and fat stacks of cash will come in droves!

Pick a date and site and lets get the ball rolling and the money flowing.  I gotta go change my line and sharpen my hooks.

I would think some date in the fall that doesn't interfere with the BFL regionals would be a great idea.....That would really cut down on your scheduling conflicts....

Roy Randolph should have his calendar published soon...I haven't checked out his site in a while maybe it is already up....

If you launch out of Erie Metro that may help you pull up some of the southern state anglers....

It's too bad the Last BFL is a two day tournament...It would work great to fish it on Sunday after that.....

I like the detroit river as well that way anglers can fish erie or st. clair depending on the wind.  I also like early october.

I agree with the Detroit River launch to fish both lakes.

Don't forget about Erie MetroPark, with 198 parking spaces. All three of the Erie/Detroit River launches are in reasonable proximity to decent lodging.

I wouldn't mind seeing a tournament scheduled for late September, early October at the latest. You would need to consider the weather conditions for that time of year. Much later in the season, and weather may begin to affect the turnout. Once you get past Labor Day, the recreational boating crowd will begin to thin out.

With a 150+ boat field, you should look at paying down a considerable number of places, with the last 5 (or so) getting their entry fee back.

Well, if September next year is anything like it was this year... I'd vote for Muskegon.  Lake Michigan was like GLASS for 3 solid weeks and the lakeshore fishing was awsome!!

Put it in down town Grand Haven during coast guard Fest. That way you would be able to get sponsors that will gain something that no other tournament can do - (people) we all think sponsors want to help us out but no one looks at it from their side what is 150-200 guys going to do for me (NOT MUCH ) but get 1000 people in the area or more while your tournament is going on a there is alot more exposure for them. Grand Haven has bleachers and a Stage! and right there at the water. Offer that to sponsors -get good sponsors and then you will have your Grand Daddy tournament.

Now there's a thought Chad!!!

Quote from: sterk149 on December 10, 2009, 02:05:15 PM
Put it in down town Grand Haven during coast guard Fest. That way you would be able to get sponsors that will gain something that no other tournament can do - (people) we all think sponsors want to help us out but no one looks at it from their side what is 150-200 guys going to do for me (NOT MUCH ) but get 1000 people in the area or more while your tournament is going on a there is alot more exposure for them. Grand Haven has bleachers and a Stage! and right there at the water. Offer that to sponsors -get good sponsors and then you will have your Grand Daddy tournament.

Sterk - Thanks for volunteering to run this event for the guys ;D the Grand Haven Waterfront would be by far the coolest venue in the state hands down - we could even have the musical fountain going during the weigh-in, that is something I've never seen at any BASS televised event on ESPN! 

Coast Guard would be tough - we would have to compete with all the Beer Tents and bikini clad females.  I do think the Grand Haven Waterfront is the perfect site for a gigantic show but it would take a year to plan that one perfectly. 

Waterfront Stadium would be kick *%* so make some calls to the city of GH to see what we would need to do.

What is the Dr. H. Belanger Park Launch site on the Detroit River like?  I've never been there so just curious if it is even a viable option.

You had me at bikini clad. Count me in.

I have been to the Coast Guard Festival...If you guys have it that weekend you may lose some anglers half way through the day to the festivities..
Focus may be a problem...
;D

Detroit River is my vote; I think a lot of guys are missing the point with this whole deal - its not my or any certain group of guys tournament it is OUR tournament and that is the only way this will work.  No one person can do this themselves, it is going to take a collaborative effort from a multitude of guys - honestly it will take 15-20 somewhat dedicated guys to make this happen so lets get to it! 

I know we can get a few G's from sponsors to pay someone to run the weigh-in so lets start talking details. 

If we really want to see this work I think we should have a date and site decided on by Jan. 1st - I got the hook on posters so I'll have some printed up to hand out at the Novi Show starting the 9th. 

DATE AND LAUNCH SITE???????????????? 

What do you all say about taking the next 20 suggestions and tallying them up with a majority rule?  Get your votes in so I can go to bed!

Do you really think you need to pay a few Gs to run the weigh in???? 

Heck for that kind of money I know a group with a Weigh in trailer that would be willing to run your weigh in.....I may even be able to provide a TD and MC.... ;D..

My vote is for Elizebeth park in early october.  Its a very nice launch, close to many hotels, and protected from the eliments if its windy that day.

I know october is a month without a lot of tourney's but if u look back you'll notice it is really hard to have a good tourney in the beginning of oct.(because it's a transition month) and if you have it at the end of oct. u might have waited to long!!!
   For a grand daddy tourney like this,i would like to see it on the 4th of july.....and lets celebrate our freedom....... and my vote still stands for charlevoix,boat traffic is not an issue and the place is beautiful that time of the year,bring the wife and kids!!!!

Quote from: gr@ssmonkey on December 11, 2009, 03:03:14 PM
I know october is a month without a lot of tourney's but if u look back you'll notice it is really hard to have a good tourney in the beginning of oct.(because it's a transition month) and if you have it at the end of oct. u might have waited to long!!!
   For a grand daddy tourney like this,i would like to see it on the 4th of july.....and lets celebrate our freedom....... and my vote still stands for charlevoix,boat traffic is not an issue and the place is beautiful that time of the year,bring the wife and kids!!!!

And I have a free place to stay less than an hour away!!  I'd fish there for sure.

I like July never know what kind of weather in Oct..  could be on traverse bay / Lake Mich. and brought onto Elk skeg and torch if the weather was to bad

Dick

As much as I love fishing Charlevoix, the problem there, will be a launch site. The largest site is the one near the city of Charlevoix, and it only has 92 parking spaces. The Boyne City launch has 52 spaces, and Ironton has 44.

The best locations to accomodate large tournaments are still Harley Ensign and Metropolitan Beach on St. Clair; Elizabeth Park, Erie Metro Park, and Sterling State Park on Erie; Fisherman's Landing on Muskegon (a tournament fisherman must have designed this place), and I believe that there are a couple of good launches on Saginaw Bay, and a big one at Au Gres. All have over 150 parking spaces, good spots for setting up the weigh-ins, and good access to the water for live release.

Quote from: motocross269 on December 11, 2009, 03:42:53 AM
Do you really think you need to pay a few Gs to run the weigh in???? 

Heck for that kind of money I know a group with a Weigh in trailer that would be willing to run your weigh in.....I may even be able to provide a TD and MC.... ;D..

You're right that is a probably a little much but I bet we could get Fish Fishburne or that "let's get ready to rumble" guy to MC for $1000 a piece. 

Tournament Trailer would be ideal so see what they'd be willing to do it for.

For $1000, I'd see about getting Mariko Izumi to MC.

Potential Dates & Sites that aren't conflicting with major events (that I know of at least)

Saturday July 3rd - Muskegon Lake Fisherman's Landing - this would be a good date for the guys coming over from the East Side to do some pre-fishing for the TBF State Fish-Off which is the following weekend.  It is busy out there during the Holiday Weekend but I think Lake Michigan is big enough to support all the traffic.  Fisherman's Landing can easily support the additional holiday anglers, pleasure boaters don't even really use this launch site so the only additional traffic will be big lake fisherman who usually launch well before safe light.

Sat./Sun. October 9th/10th or 16th/17th Elizabeth Park Detroit River - average high in Oct. is 62 degrees and if you look at the data the wind doesn't become a major factor until late Oct. or early Nov.  I didn't look into as to what else is going on these days over there so if anyone knows of anything major please post what it is and when.   Fish the river, fish St. Clair, Fish Erie this site is pretty much at the center of it all.  If the weather is even decent these dates would see some super sacks.

WHAT SAY YOU????????????

July 3 on Muskegon...I like it!!!  Not sure we can get 200 boats out on a holiday weekend though. 

With those dates I think you would get the most particapation on Oct 9. I don't think many wouls show on the July 4th weekend and mid October you would lose some to bowhunting season. My opinion.

Quote from: billy8878 on December 12, 2009, 03:38:19 PM
With those dates I think you would get the most particapation on Oct 9. I don't think many wouls show on the July 4th weekend and mid October you would lose some to bowhunting season. My opinion.

I agree with this.  Most guys aren't going to drag their familes to a bass tournament on a holiday weekend.

What about Sept. 25 or 26, or Oct. 2 or 3?

oct.9 gets my vote!

Quote from: VinceR on December 12, 2009, 05:02:03 PM
What about Sept. 25 or 26, or Oct. 2 or 3?

Lake Drive Classic/Championship

Oct 9th for me.

Oct. 9th Elizabeth Park $150 entry
Pre-Registration begins Jan. 15th with a deadline of July 1st sound good?????

I'm in!

I'm there Luke. You'll have my entry on the 16th.

Sorry guys, I was really looking for a tournament I had a chance in. It would have been great to have an inland tourny. Good luck to the usual contenders.

Everyone has a chance that time of year.  There are plenty of fish in the river and river mouth and usually very aggressive. 

Team or Singles?

If what we want is bigger tournaments I have a great idea on how to pull it off with out starting a NEW tournament....... Lets all get behind 1 tournament trail and support it even 2 trails one on the west side and one on the east. If We did not have so many fly by night tournaments, and tournaments that put on 100's of events a year you would see a couple of bigger trails just like back in the Tri-State days they had a 150 boat tournament with more on a waiting list. I know in my area with 3 major lake to have tournaments on you can fish a tournament every weekend and everyday of the week. To many tournaments for guys to chose from and in the end no one wins. the pay backs are lower, tournament directors can't get good sponsors because they can't draw enough guys to make it worth the money to a company.

Take the BBT on Muskegon Russ paid $1800.00 for 1st and $6000.00 total payback on 74 boats, if he had 150 boats he would have paid $3600.00 for 1st and $12,000.00 total.

The first BFL had 94 boats and paid $3671.00 for 1st if they had double that on 188 boats they would pay $7342.00.

That is good money to be made I think insted of putting more tournaments on we should look at the ones that have been around for a while, and have a proven track record and get behind them.

If we support just a couple tournaments everyone wins better payouts, better sponsors, better fishing and the only ones that will lose out are the directors that do not have the best intrest of the fisherman that have made them what they are.

Just my 2 cents

The idea here (one of the ideas anyway) is to payback 100% or higher.  Do any of the "major" clubs in Michigan payback anywhere near 100%??  I know NBAA paybacks are (in my opinion) a joke.  BBT, Shoreline, and most of the others I know about do not either.  But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.  In fact, I'd rather be wrong on this.

Quote from: senkoluvr on December 16, 2009, 04:34:30 PM
If what we want is bigger tournaments I have a great idea on how to pull it off with out starting a NEW tournament....... Lets all get behind 1 tournament trail and support it even 2 trails one on the west side and one on the east. If We did not have so many fly by night tournaments, and tournaments that put on 100's of events a year you would see a couple of bigger trails just like back in the Tri-State days they had a 150 boat tournament with more on a waiting list. I know in my area with 3 major lake to have tournaments on you can fish a tournament every weekend and everyday of the week. To many tournaments for guys to chose from and in the end no one wins. the pay backs are lower, tournament directors can't get good sponsors because they can't draw enough guys to make it worth the money to a company.

Take the BBT on Muskegon Russ paid $1800.00 for 1st and $6000.00 total payback on 74 boats, if he had 150 boats he would have paid $3600.00 for 1st and $12,000.00 total.

The first BFL had 94 boats and paid $3671.00 for 1st if they had double that on 188 boats they would pay $7342.00.

That is good money to be made I think insted of putting more tournaments on we should look at the ones that have been around for a while, and have a proven track record and get behind them.

If we support just a couple tournaments everyone wins better payouts, better sponsors, better fishing and the only ones that will lose out are the directors that do not have the best intrest of the fisherman that have made them what they are.

Just my 2 cents

This is the whole idea, it is 1 tournament so why doesn't BBT and everyone else get behind this 1 tournament every year?  The fore-mentioned tournaments have been around for years and they are great tournament TRAILS - this is not a tournament trail it is a ONE TOURNAMENT.  We all want bigger tournaments and I think the only way to make this happen is to put aside preconcieved notions and be open to some change; I don't care who starts this trend it just needs to start somewhere.

if you had the turnouts, you wouldnt even have to pay back 100% or higher.  keep it above 80% and there is plenty of money to go around.  the bigger the trail the more work for the director(s).  you gotta make a couple bucks if your running a big trail.  plus, that big of a tournament will require a lot of addtional equipment.  tanks, trailers, aerators, etc, etc, etc....  That money has to come from somewhere.

paying back 100% is fine for small tournaments but it will get old for the directors after dealing with that many people.

My two cents anyway,

McCarter himself :-\'

Quote from: senkoluvr on December 16, 2009, 04:34:30 PM
If what we want is bigger tournaments I have a great idea on how to pull it off with out starting a NEW tournament....... Lets all get behind 1 tournament trail and support it even 2 trails one on the west side and one on the east. If We did not have so many fly by night tournaments, and tournaments that put on 100's of events a year you would see a couple of bigger trails just like back in the Tri-State days they had a 150 boat tournament with more on a waiting list. I know in my area with 3 major lake to have tournaments on you can fish a tournament every weekend and everyday of the week. To many tournaments for guys to chose from and in the end no one wins. the pay backs are lower, tournament directors can't get good sponsors because they can't draw enough guys to make it worth the money to a company.

Take the BBT on Muskegon Russ paid $1800.00 for 1st and $6000.00 total payback on 74 boats, if he had 150 boats he would have paid $3600.00 for 1st and $12,000.00 total.

The first BFL had 94 boats and paid $3671.00 for 1st if they had double that on 188 boats they would pay $7342.00.

That is good money to be made I think insted of putting more tournaments on we should look at the ones that have been around for a while, and have a proven track record and get behind them.

If we support just a couple tournaments everyone wins better payouts, better sponsors, better fishing and the only ones that will lose out are the directors that do not have the best intrest of the fisherman that have made them what they are.

Just my 2 cents

The Super Bass Tournament on Muskegon is ment to just that, I do not know what BBT and NBAA take off the top but they have not been able to get more that 50 boats after the first year, If they had a 100 boat field it would be hands down the best pay out in Michigan, But there are only a handfull of teams that are willing to fish for that kind of money around this area.....  I don't Know everyone on this post but I don't think I have ever seen any of the guys that are posting Ideas at the Super Bass tournament, If you don't support the tournaments that are offering the higher paybacks it dose not matter who puts the tournament together it will not fly.

You seen it for yourself Luke you had 96% payback and could from what I could tell only draw 8 or 9 boats at your tournaments. Why do you think that is? guys don't trust NEW tournament directors for one there have been a few that have mad it hard for the guys that are honest to get a new tournament off the ground. They don't do what they say they are going to do, They don't update web sites, They mess up paybacks, and just don't have a clue on what guys want in a tournament. They have all the talking points down pat pat but they are like most politicians "JUST A BUNCH OF SMACK TALK"

One HUGE thing that kills tournament #'s is those people who say "if there were more boats I'd go."  Well, hook up to your trailer and fish the tournament and there will be more boats.  I'd bet that if everyone who said this last year about ROI would have come and fished with us there would have been twice as many boats per event.

As for some of the bigger tournies (like the Fox 101 Radio tourney here in west Michigan) I don't like the Grand enough to spend that kind of money to fish it.  Plain and simple... don't really care for the venue.

McCarter... I'm not saying the director(s) can't be paid... but with corporate sponsorhip you can still pay back MUCH closer to 100% (or even higher).  To me it just seems to me that some of the directors are trying to MAKE money.  I know this tourney didn't pay out nearly as much as promised this year.

This is one of the things I feel needs to change in Michigan... pay out more and take less.  Seems many directors aren't willing to do this.  My partner and I just applied to be directors of a fairly large club here in west Michigan.  The former director was paid by the # of boats that fished.  I know he made money every event whether he finished in the money or not.  We've proposed that we simply don't pay to fish.  Plain and simple.  This will raise the payout by around 7-8%.

Someone said before (in another thread perhaps) that the Muskegon Fishermans Landing venue seems to have been designed by a tournament angler.  In fact it was.  And this man died recently.  It's one of the reasons I proposed it as a venue for an event like this.  We could make it a Memorial Tourney and do it every year.  And at this venue there's really no need for a trailer... the pavilion works awesome for weigh ins.

I wonder why guys choose to fish BBT? the payout is garbage! I did the math last year and if I remember right they are paying 60-65% back. Not to mention counting all the prizes they give out that most guys dont give two craps about as part of that payout. What I would like to see happen is Lakedrive keeping two divisions and expanding the field maybe even raise the entry fee, it sounds like alot of guys want to fish this series as it is now anyways. So why not make Lakedrive that big trail that everyone is seeking?

Quote from: TCook on December 16, 2009, 08:50:33 PM
I wonder why guys choose to fish BBT? the payout is garbage! I did the math last year and if I remember right they are paying 60-65% back. Not to mention counting all the prizes they give out that most guys dont give two craps about as part of that payout. What I would like to see happen is Lakedrive keeping two divisions and expanding the field maybe even raise the entry fee, it sounds like alot of guys want to fish this series as it is now anyways. So why not make Lakedrive that big trail that everyone is seeking?

I'm with u tcook,lake drive Will pay over 3000 to win there tourney's


it's lake drive and ROI for me

Quote from: TCook on December 16, 2009, 08:50:33 PM
I wonder why guys choose to fish BBT? the payout is garbage! I did the math last year and if I remember right they are paying 60-65% back. Not to mention counting all the prizes they give out that most guys dont give two craps about as part of that payout. What I would like to see happen is Lakedrive keeping two divisions and expanding the field maybe even raise the entry fee, it sounds like alot of guys want to fish this series as it is now anyways. So why not make Lakedrive that big trail that everyone is seeking?

Exactly.  Lake Drive and ROI is where it's at for better payouts. 

I love the idea ROI has making it as close to 100% payback as possible.  If this idea catches on and anglers realize that this should be the norm and not the exception it will force other tournament trails to change their ways or fall off the map.

BBT pays 90%, Russ takes $10.00 per boat, $20.00 goes to the classic, and $70.00 gets paid back at the ramp. It is like the math that politicians use you can call it 90% payback because 90% goes back to the fisherman or You can say it is 70% because that is what is paid back at the ramp. I don't blame any director for making money, if you don't take a little you will not do it for long. Ya I know some of you guys run 10 boat tournaments for free and that is great but if you had to deal with 60 boats 120 guys 8 times a year you would not do it for free for long.

Waterfoul: You seem to be all over the ROI band wagon how many did you fish last year? Why didn't you fish Super Bass?
Let me guess you had to work.
You don't like Muskegon Lake.
The big lake was open to run.

Super Bass could be the biggest payout tournament in the state but like you said if you don't hook your boat up and show up it will be just another tournament!

BBT payback at White lake 2009:

78 boats at $100 = $7800
$ payed back at the ramp = $4930
$7800/$4930 = 63%

So Russ is keeping 17% if 20% is payed at the classic.
17% of $7800 =$1326
$1326 x 5 tournaments = $6630 he keeps a year

You have to take into account that Russ has 5 staff boats that fish for free. I am not saying that it is right but that is what he dose.

Quote from: senkoluvr on December 16, 2009, 09:37:39 PM
BBT pays 90%, Russ takes $10.00 per boat, $20.00 goes to the classic, and $70.00 gets paid back at the ramp. It is like the math that politicians use you can call it 90% payback because 90% goes back to the fisherman or You can say it is 70% because that is what is paid back at the ramp. I don't blame any director for making money, if you don't take a little you will not do it for long. Ya I know some of you guys run 10 boat tournaments for free and that is great but if you had to deal with 60 boats 120 guys 8 times a year you would not do it for free for long.

Waterfoul: You seem to be all over the ROI band wagon how many did you fish last year? Why didn't you fish Super Bass?
Let me guess you had to work.
You don't like Muskegon Lake.
The big lake was open to run.

Super Bass could be the biggest payout tournament in the state but like you said if you don't hook your boat up and show up it will be just another tournament!

Not that I feel the need to ever explain myself to you, but with the job I have I just CAN'T fish every weekend.  I love my job and will not jeapordize it in any way just to fish.  I did however make it to every ROI event I said I would.

Why don't I fish Superbass?  Because BBT and NBAA are too involved for my taste.  Simple as that.   And I do LIKE Muskegon.  I also ran to White for one of the 3 ROI events I did manage to squeeze in to my schedule.  



Anyway... back to the topic.  St. Clair is a great venue for this event.  Big water, big fish.  IF I can fit it in and not lose my job I'll be in for sure.  But I won't know if I can take the time off until just about the cut off date.  I may be able to trade some time with a store manager over there to make it easier... we'll see.

Quote from: senkoluvr on December 16, 2009, 09:54:58 PM
You have to take into account that Russ has 5 staff boats that fish for free. I am not saying that it is right but that is what he dose.

Why are we talking about tournament trails?  If you read the topic of this post it is about 1 Tournament involving the entire state, no West Side no East Side, and most definitely not about any tournament circuits.  1 Tournament with no affiliation just Sponsors and guys showing up to fish - the only way to accomplish this is to start discussing real solutions and stop pushing circuits into the discussion because they have nothing to do with this topic. 

If you would have mentioned Wonderland Marine West Open that would have been a bandwagon worth trying to jump on because they already draw around 100 boats and pay out a lot more than just money.  You say Super Bass could be the biggest tournament in the state - please enlighten us as to how a 74% payback tournament could ever be the biggest in the state, $180 entry fee at 46 boats is $8280 but only $6165 was paid out.  Is a 74% payback tournament your idea of an event that has the anglers best interest in mind?  Are these the ones with the proven track record we should all be rallying behind?

Senkoluvr your views are exactly the root cause of the problem here in Michigan, I respect you and your opinions no matter how off base they may be.  If you tournament fish we have something in common, like it or not we do so why not start contributing real solutions to something that would benefit the sport.

There are 2 things to do: 1. continue to be negative towards those who want to improve things and have ONLY the anglers best interests in mind or 2. stop and smell the coffee scented plastics and realize the whole premise of what we all have been talking about is improving the competitive angling landscape.  One exercise that might help is to wake up everyday and say to yourself "its not about me" - do that for a couple weeks and then you might understand why some of us do what we do.

That being said I hope the discussion can continue to better reflect the topic so many of us have had a great time discussing.

I just think We have to many Tournaments in Michigan right now. If we had less tournaments we would all benifit from it. I don't care who runs them I think i am like most tournament fisherman we just want a clean run, well paying, honest tournament. And i don't expect anyone to do it for free.

I am not Bashing ROI. I am just against the idea of to many tournaments around.

Waterfoul why are you bashing BBT and NBAA?

I agree with one part of this. I wouldnt expect anyone to run ANY tourney for free, but keep it in line. Looks to me, like there are some who have gotten greedy. I look at the payouts too, from years past, if I can find the records. Paying out only 60-70% is just greedy. Someone is putting the rest of that money in their pocket. I've never run a tourney before, I hope to this year. I'm sure there is quite a bit of work involved, but I dont think someone should make a living off of my fishing. Just my thoughts, not even worth 2 cents.

Quote from: senkoluvr on December 17, 2009, 05:14:54 PM
against the idea of to many tournaments around.

Waterfoul why are you bashing BBT and NBAA?

Simple.  Payouts  And I'm not "bashing."  I'm simply saying that I don't understand how so many guys keep fishing these low payout tournaments when there are several that fish similar water with MUCH better payouts.  The "if there were more boats" argument is really a terrible excuse.  Everyone should at least try some of the new trails and see what it's like to get a Return On your Investement while traveling down the Lake Drive to visit your Grand Daddy.  ;D

Quote from: mikesmiph on December 17, 2009, 05:43:46 PM
I agree with one part of this. I wouldn't expect anyone to run ANY tourney for free, but keep it in line. Looks to me, like there are some who have gotten greedy. I look at the payouts too, from years past, if I can find the records. Paying out only 60-70% is just greedy. Someone is putting the rest of that money in their pocket. I've never run a tourney before, I hope to this year. I'm sure there is quite a bit of work involved, but I don't think someone should make a living off of my fishing. Just my thoughts, not even worth 2 cents.

Why should a guy not make a living at running a tournament if he is doing a good job, and you get what you want out of a tournament what does it matter what he makes, Most guys that run a tournament of more that 50 boats a year work on it all year round. Look at it this way if you paid a guy $20.00 an hour and he ran 8 tournaments a year plus a classic lets say 12 hours a day they have to be the 1st one on site and are the last to leave that's about that's about $2200.00 for 9 tournaments now add what time is spent on the phone looking for sponsors, taking calls from guy that are complaining or asking questions about the tournaments, working sport shows and open houses, paper work after the tournament, mailings, and don't forget the tax man. I would not do it for the Kind of money that Russ from BBT makes, or even Ed from Shoreline he makes less than Russ and does the same amount of work.

Now look at a Group like NBAA I bet it's a full time job during the season just taking phone calls from members, some one has to get paid to put all of that together. They have 2 guys from what I know putting all of that together now that is a ton of work what ever they make it is not enough...... We don't need to bash on the tournaments that are working for us we need to support them, the more boats the better the payback will be.

I would rather fish a 150 boat tournament that pays 4000.00 and have the director take 10 or 20 percent, than fish a 20 or 30 boat tournament that pays $500.00 and the director is free.
In the end it cost me the same in gas, entry, and launch fee.

I would just like to thank the directors that put all the work into what they do for us Russ, Jim, Jack, and Ed.

You cant be serious. If you are, then I guess I wont see you at any tourneys this year. My loss

hey senkoluvr.......u must be new to the tournament seen.......take a VERY good LOOK at the lake drive tournament this year and u will see what other tournament trails COULD be doing for the fisherman.....if u fish those trails u mentioned,your settling for the crumbs that drop off those guy's table(like a little mouse),those trails are not passing on the GOOD sponsor gifts they get(because we show up) and if they do they take the money out of your entry fee to pay for what they got for free,because u showed up.....this scenario goes on and on.....again when lakedrive come's this year do the math after the first tournament and i want somebody to explain to me how his payout is over 100% in cash.....I know how he does it and the other tournament circuits could do the same or similiar BUT THEY DON'T!!!! I don't think lakedrive had to spend to much of his time to get AL&BOBS to pay 3 big bass prize's of $1000 each and that doesn't even come out of your entry? why would jeff at lake drive do that,he must be crazy right??? no he's a tournament fisherman himself...thats why.......think if those other trails got someone to give them a $1000 for big bass,think that u would see the $1000.....i can almost tell 1000% NO, u would see $500 and not know any wiser if even that!!!!!!

to everyone thats reading this post.....you spent the money to buy a boat,you spent the money to buy a truck to haul it,you spent tons of money on tackle and rods&reels(which funds are dnr and wildlife projects) you buy tons of gas and oil,electronics,tire's,jackplates,trolling motors........the list goes on and on....YOU should not settle for the crumbs off the table when YOU built the table.....pull up a chair senkoluvr and feast with us on the LOINS SHARE of the meal......WE WELCOME U AT ROI.....

Quote from: gr@ssmonkey on December 17, 2009, 08:16:39 PM
hey senkoluvr.......u must be new to the tournament seen.......take a VERY good LOOK at the lake drive tournament this year and u will see what other tournament trails COULD be doing for the fisherman.....if u fish those trails u mentioned,your settling for the crumbs that drop off those guy's table(like a little mouse),those trails are not passing on the GOOD sponsor gifts they get(because we show up) and if they do they take the money out of your entry fee to pay for what they got for free,because u showed up.....this scenario goes on and on.....again when lakedrive come's this year do the math after the first tournament and i want somebody to explain to me how his payout is over 100% in cash.....I know how he does it and the other tournament circuits could do the same or similiar BUT THEY DON'T!!!! I don't think lakedrive had to spend to much of his time to get AL&BOBS to pay 3 big bass prize's of $1000 each and that doesn't even come out of your entry? why would jeff at lake drive do that,he must be crazy right??? no he's a tournament fisherman himself...thats why.......think if those other trails got someone to give them a $1000 for big bass,think that u would see the $1000.....i can almost tell 1000% NO, u would see $500 and not know any wiser if even that!!!!!!

to everyone thats reading this post.....you spent the money to buy a boat,you spent the money to buy a truck to haul it,you spent tons of money on tackle and rods&reels(which funds are dnr and wildlife projects) you buy tons of gas and oil,electronics,tire's,jackplates,trolling motors........the list goes on and on....YOU should not settle for the crumbs off the table when YOU built the table.....pull up a chair senkoluvr and feast with us on the LOINS SHARE of the meal......WE WELCOME U AT ROI.....

I think you do have to pay The Big Bass Pot at Lake Drive, you pay at the ramp if I remeber right. And do you realy think Jeff is doing it for free? C'mon you have to be smarter than that! Even if he does not take a dime from the tournament if he sells 1 boat out of the deal he makes more than Russ and Ed will in a year. As for ROI Why? entry $100.00, Gas $50.00, Membership $35.00 per man, ramp fee $10.00 = $230.00. What was 1st place last year at the biggest tournament? $400.00 It seems that I can win 3x that at a BBT, or Lake Drive, If ROI is so great why won't he have 75 boats? From what is being said about Lake Drive they will fill in 1 day and it the first year for the north division..........

I think the brain trust at ROI needs to look at what Lake Drive is doing......... They have a 1 year head start on Lake Drive in this area, and the will be a DNF at the end of the race.

exactly senkoluvr,sell one boat,thats not out of my entry,i don't care if tournaments make a little money but you can't be eating prime rib for running the tournament when i win it and i have to eat hamburg >:(  i don't care if jeff is making money because he's suppling what the fisherman want.......just tring to talk some cents into u senkoluvr....i'm going to fish lakedrive and roi and have a smile on my face....i've been waiting a long time for this.....please all u keep fishing NBAA and the rest of the CHARITY tournaments...i'll be collecting the loins share at the platinum tournaments ;D ;D

l

Quote from: senkoluvr on December 17, 2009, 06:37:59 PM

Quote from: mikesmiph on December 17, 2009, 05:43:46 PM
I agree with one part of this. I wouldn't expect anyone to run ANY tourney for free, but keep it in line. Looks to me, like there are some who have gotten greedy. I look at the payouts too, from years past, if I can find the records. Paying out only 60-70% is just greedy. Someone is putting the rest of that money in their pocket. I've never run a tourney before, I hope to this year. I'm sure there is quite a bit of work involved, but I don't think someone should make a living off of my fishing. Just my thoughts, not even worth 2 cents.

Why should a guy not make a living at running a tournament if he is doing a good job, and you get what you want out of a tournament what does it matter what he makes, Most guys that run a tournament of more that 50 boats a year work on it all year round. Look at it this way if you paid a guy $20.00 an hour and he ran 8 tournaments a year plus a classic lets say 12 hours a day they have to be the 1st one on site and are the last to leave that's about that's about $2200.00 for 9 tournaments now add what time is spent on the phone looking for sponsors, taking calls from guy that are complaining or asking questions about the tournaments, working sport shows and open houses, paper work after the tournament, mailings, and don't forget the tax man. I would not do it for the Kind of money that Russ from BBT makes, or even Ed from Shoreline he makes less than Russ and does the same amount of work.

Now look at a Group like NBAA I bet it's a full time job during the season just taking phone calls from members, some one has to get paid to put all of that together. They have 2 guys from what I know putting all of that together now that is a ton of work what ever they make it is not enough...... We don't need to bash on the tournaments that are working for us we need to support them, the more boats the better the payback will be.

I would rather fish a 150 boat tournament that pays 4000.00 and have the director take 10 or 20 percent, than fish a 20 or 30 boat tournament that pays $500.00 and the director is free.
In the end it cost me the same in gas, entry, and launch fee.

I would just like to thank the directors that put all the work into what they do for us Russ, Jim, Jack, and Ed.

I like this guy, looks like he has done his homework.

One of the things that I think most everyone overlooks when these discussions pop up every year is that each tournament circuit is designed differently.

NBAA is designed for the angler that wants to fish a classic. Yes they only payout 70% at the ramp but if you take into account they give three boats away at the classic then you would get about 300% payout.If you fish a 5 tournament circuit and fish one classic and win a boat that is like 1000% payback. Yes Im sure that they get these boats through sposors but that is exactly what they are suppose to do(they are working for the anglers)anyone who thinks that their payouts are a joke are totally out of their minds. There is no denying that NBAA has great paybacks and are one of the best trails out there. This type of tournament will have more anglers fishing for the longrun to try to get into the classic. The only problem with NBAA is there are to many tournaments and that keeps the numbers down on the otherhand there are more choices for the anglers.

BBT is also a tournament circuit designed for the classic. Although there is no boat you can win $2000 for first at the classic. There payout is somewhat less than NBAAs but is approx. 90% throughout the classic. Also will hold the boats due to the fact it has a classic and has alot of prizes to giveaway to the less fortunate anglers like myself that dont get into the money very often.

ROI is designed for the right here right now angler, no classic but just about 100% payout at the ramp. This is good for the top 5 or 8 anglers in that area or lake. The rest just wont fish due to the fact that they dont have a chance to win anything or a chance to go to a classic. This will always keep the numbers down.

BFL is designed for the championship also. 70% at the ramp but big dividends at the championship. Only problem with them is that they only have tourneys on the east side of the state and small mouth, Which will limit numbers.

LakeDrive is for both, I cant say enough about them. Payback is like 90% at the ramp and at the classic it pays $12000 for first,yes thats right $12000 with only 3 tourneys to fish to make the classic. There again thats about 1000% payback total. They have the numbers, the payback, and they know how to put on the best tournaments in Michigan.

I think putting on a big tournament with 100% payback is in the best interest of the anglers but I dont think it will happen. It will be hard pressed to get 50 boats let alone 150. As someone said earlier, to many tournaments with to many options and most everyone is done fishing by late Sept. Good Luck With That.

Quote from: gr@ssmonkey on December 17, 2009, 08:16:39 PM
! I don't think lakedrive had to spend to much of his time to get AL&BOBS to pay 3 big bass prize's of $1000 each and that doesn't even come out of your entry? why would jeff at lake drive do that,he must be crazy right??? no he's a tournament fisherman himself...thats why.......think if those other trails got someone to give them a $1000 for big bass,think that u would see the $1000.....i can almost tell 1000% NO, u would see $500 and not know any wiser if even that!!!!!!

Just a clarification, Big bass is only 500$ per tournament paid by the sponsor and everyone can purchase a ticket when they sign up for $5 and that goes toward big bass. The ticket was for a thompson center muzzle loader in the past to be drawn out at the end of the day. The total big bass pots are over $1000 when its all said and done. So to be correct you do donate $5 toward big bass.

some people just have a way with words :)nicely said johnboy

Grassmonkey I see on the ROI "website" You did well in the tournaments! How much did you make? How much did you spend? What Do you think one of the top guys in the BBT maid How much did they spend? Who came out on top?

My whole point is no one will run a good tournament for free! Not for long anyway. If we all get behind 1 or 2 or 3 tournaments they will grow. I don't care if it is ROI, BBT, NBAA, SHoreline, Or the RNFL (Red neck Fishing League) I just want to see more than Lake Drive pay out big! # tournaments a year that pay good is not enough for me.

The problem with a "NEW" tournament is everyone is in the wait and see mod and from the 1st year performance of ROI it looks like it will be a wait and see year for them again..... I see all kind of we have this and we will have that but it is all just talk when will we see some guarantees on paper? It seems that every post you go to The ROI crew has a "NEW" plan and it is differant than the last post that they have put up....

Why don't you think there is a tournament out there that is doing the 100% payback deal it is not a new concept, Even the Big Boys in B.A.S.S female dog about the pay back But they know that some one has to put it all together, it won't happen on its own it takes alot of work. Work that is not free. I know I don't work for free and I am sure none of you guys do. What if your boss came to you and said I am cutting your pay so I can give our customers a better price, You all would say BS!

Please keep it impersonal and about the topic, not the people.

Some people want to fish smaller tournament and some people want to fish bigger tournaments. Some people want to fish close to home and some people like to fish farther away.

Some people like team. Some people like draw or pro-am. Some people even like individual.

Some people like one or two lakes. Some people like a lot of variety of locations. Some people like established circuits. Some people like something new.

Times change and what people want changes too. No one is going to force other people to fish what they don't want to. Some of them will just get together and start something new to meet a real or perceived need. I don't think any of us can change that and don't see much value in debating what is inevitable. I say inevitable because it has come to pass.

There will be new circuits that come and go always. Some will get big for a while and some won't. It's actually been that way for over 20 years. US Bass. Western Bass. TNT. TMTS. Anglers Choice. That old scholarship series. Military Bass. ABC. So many others. If you want to run a successful circuit, find out what enough people want and then give that to them. Don't worry that you won't meet everyones' needs. That just isn't possible.

You guys should try MX racing if you want to see crappy payouts......Look how much pros make for an outdoor national...


With that being said...Payouts are nice, but take a look at how much Mark Modrok, Joe Balog, or any of the other top guns made last year fishing...Joe won a BFL on LSC and I bet he barely broke even for the year..Mark struggled some last year in tournaments..My point is if it is all about money and payouts then you are in the wrong business...I eventually want to beat the best tourney fisheman in Michigan(When time and money permits)...The best tourney fisherman Fish the BFLs, NBAA and the Federation State Fish offs...Why??? Because of the opportunity to advance to a bigger field and try to beat the best in the country....One thing that I have noticed is the best fisherman that I have fished with in this state don't say much about the payout..I have sat and listened to the Balogs and Modraks at the ramp...They want to beat their buddies...The cash seems to me to be secondary...

I can make more money working a side job or whatever on a weekend.....I want to "Win" tournaments...Everything else is a bonus....

Big money tournaments are a blast and you guys have some great opportunities to build something on the west side..I would go for it... just as Dan said though, not everyone fishes tournaments for a big payday that day....

Quote from: senkoluvr on December 17, 2009, 09:47:59 PM
Grassmonkey I see on the ROI "website" You did well in the tournaments! How much did you make? How much did you spend? What Do you think one of the top guys in the BBT maid How much did they spend? Who came out on top?  :-\' if there was 25 boats at ROI that would be a fare comparison,I can't help how many come participate,only that if they do the pay will be there....i can say that out of the 75 boats that fished the muskegon bbt,I made more money than 71 of them in an 8 boat tournament ??? ::)

My whole point is no one will run a good tournament for free! Not for long anyway. If we all get behind 1 or 2 or 3 tournaments they will grow. I don't care if it is ROI, BBT, NBAA, SHoreline, Or the RNFL (Red neck Fishing League) I just want to see more than Lake Drive pay out big! # tournaments a year that pay good is not enough for me. ;)exactly my vote is for ROI and LAKE DRIVE and TOP BASS ;D

The problem with a "NEW" tournament is everyone is in the wait and see mod and from the 1st year performance of ROI it looks like it will be a wait and see year for them again..... I see all kind of we have this and we will have that but it is all just talk when will we see some guarantees on paper? It seems that every post you go to The ROI crew has a "NEW" plan and it is differant than the last post that they have put up.... :o luke might be hashing out the details on a few things but for the most part 96% was paid everytime,I myself collected the small (tak'in what there giv'in)angler of the year prize of $250 and second was $125 out of lukes own pocket :ocan't ask a guy for more dedication then that,luke gave out numerous GOOD hats and shirts last year(i seem to have a wardrobe full ;D) and his wife even fed us at one of the tournaments...(i noticed there was no leftovers ;D)....I'M JUST SAYING SENKOLUVR i'm willing to support someone like that :-*

Why don't you think there is a tournament out there that is doing the 100% payback deal it is not a new concept, Even the Big Boys in B.A.S.S female dog about the pay back But they know that some one has to put it all together, it won't happen on its own it takes alot of work. Work that is not free. I know I don't work for free and I am sure none of you guys do. What if your boss came to you and said I am cutting your pay so I can give our customers a better price, You all would say BS!

that is why the big boy's have the P.A.A and watch it grow this year!!!
AS far as the work comparison,I didn't hire anyone,at this level tournament directors become tournament directors so they can fish for free :o :o
in the end senkoluvr were about the same people if what u said about "u don't care who's running the tournaments" then i've already fished BBT and NBAA and SHORELINE and made my decision not to fish,u should try 1 ROI tournament before u make your decision not to fish???????

The BASS Opens are 100 percent payback on the pro side....I am surprised those opens don't fill up the first day..

Quote from: motocross269 on December 18, 2009, 03:47:55 AM
The BASS Opens are 100 percent payback on the pro side....I am surprised those opens don't fill up the first day..

for real,i did not know that and it surprise's me.......are u sure motocross

 ;D ;D now back to your originally programed show ;D ;D

my vote is for any june date at CHARLAVOIX with all entries in by april 30

I would rather fish a 150 boat tournament that pays 4000.00 and have the director take 10 or 20 percent, than fish a 20 or 30 boat tournament that pays $500.00 and the director is free.
In the end it cost me the same in gas, entry, and launch fee.


lets not kid ourselves..u would pay gas and launch fees at any given fishing trip only the entry matters to me thats what i wouldn't have paid if i wasn't in a tournament.......

and i wouldn't mind fishing a 150 boat tournament for $4000 but i wouldn't mind fishing a 20-30 boat tournament that would pay $2000(which if u would just show up and fish ROI would pay)

Quote from: gr@ssmonkey on December 18, 2009, 12:59:23 PM
;D ;D now back to your originally programed show ;D ;D

my vote is for any june date at CHARLAVOIX with all entries in by april 30

So we've got 4 or 5 votes for the Detroit River on Oct. 9th and 1 vote for Charleviox in June. 

What kind of tournaments have 150 boat fields that pay back $4000 for 1st?  Is there some $50 entry tournament pulling 150 boats somewhere?  $100 entry @ 150 boats should at minimum go $6000 for 1st. 

Maybe it should be called The Angler's Chosen ONE - Grand Daddy just automatically makes me think about the Tournament of Roses Parade and boring Big Ten offenses.

Quote from: gr@ssmonkey on December 18, 2009, 12:41:41 PM

Quote from: motocross269 on December 18, 2009, 03:47:55 AM
The BASS Opens are 100 percent payback on the pro side....I am surprised those opens don't fill up the first day..

for real,i did not know that and it surprise's me.......are u sure motocross

yep...check the payouts..With a field of 175 anglers they pay 175 thousand bucks...Pretty cool..I am beginning to warm up to these BASS opens...Co angler for a year or two then off I go...

I like the Detroit river...Charlevoix is awesome too...I will vote for the Detroit river in October....October 8th is my birthday so maybe I can use that as an excuse to hit one last tourney for the year....

yep...check the payouts..With a field of 175 anglers they pay 175 thousand bucks...Pretty cool..I am beginning to warm up to these BASS opens...Co angler for a year or two then off I go...

I like the Detroit river...Charlevoix is awesome too...I will vote for the Detroit river in October....October 8th is my birthday so maybe I can use that as an excuse to hit one last tourney for the year....
[/quote]

That's 6 solid votes for Oct. 9th on the Detroit River, Charleviox still sits at 1 vote.

darn dude... do you ever sleep?

Put me down for Muskegon in late September some time....

What about this concept guys - take the top 5 boats from every tournament circuit in Michigan and hold a tournament ( The title would be the REAL Michigan state Champion) see who really is the best fisherman in the state! NO one has ever put something like that together before - TBF and BF they do a state championship but that just isn't the same - their clubs are mostly just paper tournament and most of the guys fishing didn't earn they Way there  ( not saying all of them, just most ).

I have a few thoughts on this.  I fish NBAA and a few local tournaments.  The reason I fish these is because I know about them.  This forum and topic actually gives me more info on where I can fish tournaments than the many hours of searching the web I have done.  We need a place to find all this info.  Someone mentioned roy randolph and that by far has more info than i have ever found.  ROI sounds interesting though i can not seem to find it, nor can i find lakes and dates.  NBAA has there calender about full for 2010 so for now i am going to schedule my summer around that and my partner.
if you want to start a new tournament, try searching for it on the net and if you cant find it neither can others.  type in bass tournament michigan on the net, only a few come up, including greatlakesbass.com wich is how i found this site.

Also,
for a 200 boat tourney has anyone ever tried to do multiple lakes at one time?  Example: 4 lakes with 50 boats each for 2 days.  get 50 pts for first and 1 for last on your lake.  next day new lake same set up.  most points wins.   Just an idea....

Quote from: fbenn12122000 on December 20, 2009, 05:16:53 PM
I have a few thoughts on this.  I fish NBAA and a few local tournaments.  The reason I fish these is because I know about them.  This forum and topic actually gives me more info on where I can fish tournaments than the many hours of searching the web I have done.  We need a place to find all this info.  Someone mentioned roy randolph and that by far has more info than i have ever found.  ROI sounds interesting though i can not seem to find it, nor can i find lakes and dates.  NBAA has there calender about full for 2010 so for now i am going to schedule my summer around that and my partner.
if you want to start a new tournament, try searching for it on the net and if you cant find it neither can others.  type in bass tournament michigan on the net, only a few come up, including greatlakesbass.com wich is how i found this site.

Also,
for a 200 boat tourney has anyone ever tried to do multiple lakes at one time?  Example: 4 lakes with 50 boats each for 2 days.  get 50 pts for first and 1 for last on your lake.  next day new lake same set up.  most points wins.   Just an idea....

ROI information is here (website will soon be updated)

http://www.roioutdoors.com/

Who is the head of ROI it seems like there are a lot of guys posting what will happen and what won't happen. Who can I talk to is it Waterfoul, Grassmonkey, Sterk, or ROI?

ROI (luke) is the spear head behind it.  The rest of us are simply being supportive and helpful because we believe in the ideas that the circuit is based on.  Sterk is director of the premier series on the Lakeshore, I myself will probably be directing at least one of the weeknight series and Grassmonkey is simply (at this point!) a good friend and great angler.

Quote from: senkoluvr on December 21, 2009, 05:31:56 PM
Who is the head of ROI it seems like there are a lot of guys posting what will happen and what won't happen. Who can I talk to is it Waterfoul, Grassmonkey, Sterk, or ROI?

PLEASE senkoluvr...enlighten me with a single what will happen and what won't happen at ROI in this post........I don't see it......... ???  u remind me off some one sinkoluvr...hhmmmmm.... :o :o lol

why so much discussion about how many boats.  If your tournament is on a day and time i can fish, i will fish it so count me in, so there is one more boat for sure.  If there is two boats, im gonna win, if there is 200 boats im gonna have a lot harder time, but i should still do good.  it dosn't matter all that much because i'd just go fishing for free if there wasn't a tournament at all.  we should all just show up and try to win.  we'll still have fun because we still love to fish.  A bad day on the water is still more fun than being at home casting hookles lures around my house for my cat.

August 1st Wonderland Open - lets all go to that and hit 150 boats for Ralph and the guys. 

Oct. 9th Elizabeth Park still sounds like a winner.  I've got the scale, weigh bags and aerator tubs so all we need is like 200 guys, 10 sponsors and we're there. 

I'd seriously like to at least have 8-10 guys say this sounds good and then I'll start printing flyers to hand out at the Novi Show or something.  Let's go!

#1. This sounds good Luke.

Well, that's a long ways off but at this time I don't know why I couldn't make it.

As mentioned, this is still a long way off, but I don't see why I couldn't make it either...

like i said, I'm in.

I should be good too.

I'm in!

I'd fish this.

I'd say its settled then - Oct. 9th Elizabeth Park

Also we need to support the Wonderland Open Aug. 1st because if we do there should easily be 150 boats for 2010.

Don't you have to run a strotos or something tofish the wonderland

Dick

 ;D

I'm in!

Quote from: oldjigger on December 23, 2009, 09:04:51 PM
Don't you have to run a strotos or something tofish the wonderland

Dick

That would be the "Customer Appreciation Tournament", which is usually held in September. You must be the owner of, and fishing from a boat that was purchased from Wonderland.

The tournament being referred to here, is the Wonderland Open, on August 1st. It is open to anyone wishing to fish. First Place is a  guaranteed $10,000.00.

Don't you have to run a strotos or something tofish the wonderland

Oldjigger, VinceR is correct.  You can fish out of any brand boat within the rules.  There has been " Bonus " money though from the boat brands we carry for the past tournaments.  Example was Ranger, Stratos, etc.  ( 2 years ago if the winner was fishing out of a Stratos that met requirements, they would have doubled their winnings to I believe $20,000 ). 

As for October 9th, just check other big tournaments going on in years past for that time frame, like Maumee Bait and Tackle, etc.  so we are not splitting up other large tournaments then.   

Wonderland Open August 1st lets go 200+; there is already a 100 boat field so 200 should be an easy task - put it on your calendar today!

Merry Christmas

Just curios as to how many Legend Boats people saw on St. Clair or the D. River last season?  I've been wanting to get one but there isn't a dealer in Michigan; hopefully someone decides to get them on board soon.  FOB you have room for one more brand don't you?

Quote from: Return On Investment Outdoors on December 28, 2009, 02:55:20 AM
Just curios as to how many Legend Boats people saw on St. Clair or the D. River last season?  I've been wanting to get one but there isn't a dealer in Michigan; hopefully someone decides to get them on board soon.  FOB you have room for one more brand don't you?

BASS CAT.... ;D

Actually some Dealer in Michigan was trolling around looking for interest in Legend boats..I never did see who it was though...
Nick Neves fished a Legend for awhile, Antony Bici has a Legend...I saw a few of them on Michigan waters this year...They look good...

Quote from: motocross269 on December 28, 2009, 07:36:00 AM

Quote from: Return On Investment Outdoors on December 28, 2009, 02:55:20 AM
Just curios as to how many Legend Boats people saw on St. Clair or the D. River last season?  I've been wanting to get one but there isn't a dealer in Michigan; hopefully someone decides to get them on board soon.  FOB you have room for one more brand don't you?

BASS CAT.... ;D

Actually some Dealer in Michigan was trolling around looking for interest in Legend boats..I never did see who it was though...
Nick Neves fished a Legend for awhile, Antony Bici has a Legend...I saw a few of them on Michigan waters this year...They look good...

BASS CAT????? 

Who cares if they have the best customer service in the industry and have taken JD Power & Associates 5 years in a row - that doesn't mean anything ;). 

Seriously though I'm torn between giving up my life to a Cat payment and becoming a slave to a Legend payment - either way I'll be broke but I guess if going to be broke I might as well stay dry.  It would be nice for Legend to have a place to call home here in Michigan, a little more competition between manufacturers would be beneficial for us consumers!

ROA TOURNAMENTS R GOOD?????????????????MANY USA DOLLARS RETURN TO THE POCKET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!MAYBE SPINNER BAIT WILL BE GOOD IN ROA TOURNEY???????????MAYBE NOT???????????????????

8) 8) 8) BASS TRACKER BOAT RULE  8) 8) 8)

 Hey either BASSFISHERMAN broke through Dans firewalls or hes broken out of the Ukraine ;D ;D ;D

Good to hear from you, maybe we will see you this summer throwing those spinnerbaits.

Quote from: Return On Investment Outdoors on December 28, 2009, 11:47:52 PM
BASS CAT????? 

Who cares if they have the best customer service in the industry and have taken JD Power & Associates 5 years in a row - that doesn't mean anything ;). 

Seriously though I'm torn between giving up my life to a Cat payment and becoming a slave to a Legend payment - either way I'll be broke but I guess if going to be broke I might as well stay dry.  It would be nice for Legend to have a place to call home here in Michigan, a little more competition between manufacturers would be beneficial for us consumers!

Man, you change your mind more than any woman I know (sorry ladies).

Triton, Legend, BassCat, wrapping the tin boat, etc, etc, etc....

;D

Quote from: Waterfoul on December 31, 2009, 02:35:48 PM

Quote from: Return On Investment Outdoors on December 28, 2009, 11:47:52 PM
BASS CAT????? 

Who cares if they have the best customer service in the industry and have taken JD Power & Associates 5 years in a row - that doesn't mean anything ;). 

Seriously though I'm torn between giving up my life to a Cat payment and becoming a slave to a Legend payment - either way I'll be broke but I guess if going to be broke I might as well stay dry.  It would be nice for Legend to have a place to call home here in Michigan, a little more competition between manufacturers would be beneficial for us consumers!

Man, you change your mind more than any woman I know (sorry ladies).

Triton, Legend, BassCat, wrapping the tin boat, etc, etc, etc....

;D

Are you going to end 2009 with that kind of post or are you going to start throwing down hot ones like Captain Hooks-A-Lot aka BASS FISHERMAN?  We just met up at the Swash Bucket and decided to take Euro's at the ROA events next year.  No decision was made on treasure chest to euro to dollar exchange rates but we did conclude Spinnerbaits have equal trade in as Bass Trackers - which due rule!!

What's a Euro?   ::)

So what's it going to be?  Triton?  BassCat?  Legend?  Wrapped tin boat?

Is it Memorial Day Weekend yet?

Who is fishing for over $10,000 on August 1st at the Wonderland West Open????????????

Who wants to see a 200 boat field in 2010??????????

Who wants to see mutiplet 200 boat fields a year???????????

Why am I using the word "Who" so much??????? 

Most importantly WHY is THE WHO performing at the Super Bowl this year???????

I want to go on BASS FISHERMAN's ship to conquest many lands with Spinner bait::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

HUFFY DIRT BIKES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Split the sides and run a championship in the middle. Another idea is running it like a non boater draw tourney like the Redman used to. It's been awhile since we seen that on the west side of the state.

Quote from: Flyin200 on January 03, 2010, 07:54:32 PM
Split the sides and run a championship in the middle. Another idea is running it like a non boater draw tourney like the Redman used to. It's been awhile since we seen that on the west side of the state.

Now there's an idea...

Quote from: mibassfisherman on January 05, 2010, 11:16:58 AM

Quote from: Flyin200 on January 03, 2010, 07:54:32 PM
Split the sides and run a championship in the middle. Another idea is running it like a non boater draw tourney like the Redman used to. It's been awhile since we seen that on the west side of the state.

Now there's an idea...

Not to get ahead of the game here but that is exactly what 2011 will look like except the sides won't be split it will be one tournament - 1 on Muskegon, 1 on St. Clair, 1 on the Grand, and 1 on the Detroit River and then go to Sanford or Wixom for the Championship.  It's similiar to the Michigan BFL schedule when they close to 200 boats an event back the mid-90's.  It covers the largest demographic of anglers on 2 lakes and 2 rivers and then fishes an excellent fishery to wrap up.  I like to hear some opinions on that one.

On a Grand Daddy note I think the biggest shot in 2010 for a 150 - 200 boat field is on August 1st @ the Wonderland West Open - it works out perfectly because a lot of guys will already be over there for the BFL the day before.

Need this topic to go over the 3 Grand mark - I guess I can just have a conversation with myself.  Where's BASSFISHERMAN when you need him?

I think he got deported again. :D :D

Hi there hunlee hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Hunlee ben lookin over this thraed an frum whut hunlee can see yous all are makein a looooong read out of this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Sometime hunlee gets confused but hunlee still try!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!All hunlee can say bout this hear is yous better have you fun now as the new carps are comeing into the big water frum Chiago !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Hunlee ben watchin the TV set an notice them carps are jumping and it sure wont be long befor you see thems jumping hear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Them asion carps runt all other fish as many allready no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hunlee

I do not think that there is anything that can be done for this year, as far as a 150-200 boat tournament goes. I would suggest to take a look at what other circuits are running tournaments this year, see what their schedules are. Most circuits will fish the same lakes around the same time of year. If you can find a weekend with no, or very little tournaments, plan on that weekend for next year and advertise, advertise, advertise between now and then. When the BASS weekend series fished here, nobody really knew about it (lack of advertising). Now, because they did not have the turnout they wanted, they are no longer here. I would definately be in if there is going to be 100 or more boats, especially anything that is on the west 2/3 of the state. There are already a fair number of bigger tournaments on the east side of the state (BFL, BASS Open, etc.) We need one on the west side.

Quote from: Return On Investment Outdoors on January 08, 2010, 01:01:31 AM

Quote from: mibassfisherman on January 05, 2010, 11:16:58 AM

Quote from: Flyin200 on January 03, 2010, 07:54:32 PM
Split the sides and run a championship in the middle. Another idea is running it like a non boater draw tourney like the Redman used to. It's been awhile since we seen that on the west side of the state.

Now there's an idea...

Not to get ahead of the game here but that is exactly what 2011 will look like except the sides won't be split it will be one tournament - 1 on Muskegon, 1 on St. Clair, 1 on the Grand, and 1 on the Detroit River and then go to Sanford or Wixom for the Championship.  It's similiar to the Michigan BFL schedule when they close to 200 boats an event back the mid-90's.  It covers the largest demographic of anglers on 2 lakes and 2 rivers and then fishes an excellent fishery to wrap up.  I like to hear some opinions on that one.

On a Grand Daddy note I think the biggest shot in 2010 for a 150 - 200 boat field is on August 1st @ the Wonderland West Open - it works out perfectly because a lot of guys will already be over there for the BFL the day before.

You're actually sounding like you are formulating a good thing here. My (one mans) oppy since you asked, is dont get tied on the symetry of lakes and rivers (since Lake St Clair is technically a river system). Instead take the Muskegon, Grand and St Clair in a simple format (pre spawn, pre summer, and mid summer) - and I propose a great fall classic - a crankbait fest testing the skills of all anglers - on Burt Mullet, and everyone knows there's a huge difference going there during spawn versus fall, and everyone knows, theres a load a feeding 5 lb fish there. I do think a good sponsor (BPS, Wonderland, an auto company who needs to get back in the good graces of the american ppl lol !) could be approached if you gather a petition with all us signed showing 300 or 400 ppl willing to compete in the format you are formulating, heck... it could work.

If you want the big draw you need to start the season on Clair.

depends - which body is best pre fishn ? When is the Grand the best ? Muskegon
great" certain times of the year ?