Count to 5. Go ahead. It's the time you have left on earth when you step outside your next hotel and see someone in your boat. You walk over, start to huff and startle the thief, and the ................. Your a memory.
http://www.wlox.com/story/23681047/jackson-motel-shooting-leaves-one-man-dead
How close does it have to hit home before you protect yourself? Think of your kids ? I do.
Its time. So my wife and I signed up for a CCW class taught by none other than our very own Revtro. Classes are Oct 26th and then Dec 14th. You don't need defense metal - yet. During class you will have access to several of them to try, and once you are trained and comfortable you'll agree with same statement that every instructor says: It's better to have one and never have to use it than the one time when you need it and not have it.
It's time. Go see Revtro, his wife is giving birth soon he'll need the extra customers too ! The law entitles you with this right, it's not a privilege so what's stopping you from training yourself for what could be the most critical 5 seconds of your life ?
Something to think about! A concealed weapon permit, gives you the right to carry a concealed weapon. Dose not give you the right to shoot someone. If you pull out your weapon and point it a someone, you must be perpared to use it. Or suffer the consequences
Quote from: Got Fish?? on October 18, 2013, 11:50:52 PM
Something to think about! A concealed weapon permit, gives you the right to carry a concealed weapon. Dose not give you the right to shoot someone. If you pull out your weapon and point it a someone, you must be perpared to use it. Or suffer the consequences
I am with you. I have insurance. They can take what ever they want. This is a crazy world we live in.
On that note I will be in downtown Flint all day helping my wife promoter her book. Hoepfully I will be fishing on Kent tomorrow.
Approaching someone who is trying to steal your belongings can be an iffy situation. Just because you carry doesn't mean you have to pull it out and point it at someone. You can try to handle the situation in a calm manner by talking, but what happens when the criminal on your boat starts to loose it and you can tell he has a weapon? Having a CCW doesn't give you the right to point your gun or shoot someone, but it does give you the right and the chance to protect yourself when things go wrong.
I have several friends who got their permits this year. It's definitely not a bad thing to have. I've been wanting to take the class with my wife, just hasn't been a real high priority. I really want her to have a permit. She spends more time with the kids than I do, only because she is a stay at home mom. They are out and about quite often without me. There are some sick people out there these days. You just never know.
Quote from: gmetime24 on October 19, 2013, 09:01:23 AM
Approaching someone who is trying to steal your belongings can be an iffy situation. Just because you carry doesn't mean you have to pull it out and point it at someone. You can try to handle the situation in a calm manner by talking, but what happens when the criminal on your boat starts to loose it and you can tell he has a weapon? Having a CCW doesn't give you the right to point your gun or shoot someone, but it does give you the right and the chance to protect yourself when things go wrong.
BAM............ The bass master thought the same thing and prolly tried to scare him off with calm words........ You're dealing with an animal. They have been in jail, and calm words aren't going be the thing that makes him say - oh ok. You're right, I'll go back to jail now.
Nope.
But once you've been trained, and you carry, any potential threat situation puts you completely in a different mode. When you carry, you don't just pull and point your gun
anytime there's a situation. BUT.... In a similar situation, you would find cover, call 911, and put yourself in position so the thief can't see you. A CCW begins your training for those critical 5 seconds.
Quote from: Got Fish?? on October 18, 2013, 11:50:52 PM
"............. you must be prepared ......
I think this is all I was trying to say, plus send you guys to one of our own.....
Quote from: Mojo on October 19, 2013, 03:45:32 PM
Quote from: Got Fish?? on October 18, 2013, 11:50:52 PM
"............. you must be prepared ......
I think this is all I was trying to say, plus send you guys to one of our own.....
Definitely be prepared. Unfortunately the shooter was 17 he will probably get.life sad world.we.live.in
He's being charged with capital murder.....in Texas. If he's lucky, he will get to sit in jail for life. Texas has the death penalty. Eye for an eye.
Have had my CPL for 12 years. I have it on me most of the time except pistol free zones. I have even got into reloading couple years ago which helps get thru the long winters.
I walked into my rural home while it was being robbed years ago. Will not be unprepared again.
Just remember
There's a difference between getting some thing ripped off and having your life threatened.
For me
I have more guns then most folks
But have no plans of carrying.
But if that's what you plan on doing
It's your right, and god bless you
Getting a ccw does not train you to be a marine. Carrying a gun does not make you invincible. Having a gun does allow you to protect yourself if you are in danger. Guns don't solve problems. I think this was a bad situation and 1 life was lost while another is facing life issues. Unless the angler was approaching his boat like he was raiding a bunker, I don't think the outcome would have been any different with or without a gun.
The law allows you to carry a weapon - go for it. Others have stated - you must be prepared to use it and it does not make you invincible.
My .02.
Since Michigan has approved the concealed law I dont think there has been many reported issues with license holders abusing the law.
I got dinged for a $500 fine a few years ago because I failed to show the trooper my license immediately when he pulled me over for boat trailer light being out. Won't happen again.
This kind of stuff will keep happening unfortunately. Incredibly sad.
I don't speak of this often, but some of this talk scares me. I hear talk all the time from people saying, "If I had a gun, I would......", or "when I get my CCW I'm going to.....". I just want people to know, if it ever comes down to it, and you ever have to use a weapon in self defense, be prepared for years of therapy. Even when you are justified, it plays with your head for years. Most people can't live with themselves. There are questions you constantly ask yourself. It's not as easy as some of the tough talk. Also, it's not easy to keep your cool in a situation like that. It happened to me 30 years ago, I was completely justified, and I still have questions. Get your head straight before you carry. Please
Heck, I probably wouldn't make it thru the background check! All those Saturday nights, missing "Joy Road" street signs, and mysterious disappearing newspaper boxes in Ann Arbor in the 80's would probably catch up with me!
I'm not a gun owner but if it's what you want to do, then it's your right.
Didn't realize you were such a delinquent Mike !!!!!!! :D
When I read of these tragedies, and hear responses from the public and politicians, I am disturbed that everyone seems to miss the root cause for the complete lack of morality in our country. The problem obviously stems from the breakdown of the family and the reckless abandon of Christian principles.
Sorry, I broke my five minute rule. ( Anytime I read a post or email that makes me angry, I try to step away for 5 minutes before I respond; this time I did not.)
In our brotherhood, we all recognize how much our gear is worth, but it is only recent that someone outside our sport would know this. The average person still doesn't. The more people realize it, the more we will become targets........ I don't think this is a lone event, but the beginning.
Think about it, and practice YOUR plan, whatever that may be. Next time you find yourself alone at 5 am, when no one is around, do a walk through of what you would do if approached alone at the ramp, alone at a hotel. Sounds silly, but that is your first step.
I really like you guys, all of you, and I would be crushed if it were you.
Stay GLB baby !
Quote from: mikesmiph on October 22, 2013, 03:22:25 PM
I don't speak of this often... It happened to me 30 years ago, I was completely justified, and I still have questions. Get your head straight before you carry. Please
Thanks for sharing, Mike. I appreciate your candor. Though I have a CPL, I find myself of the mindset that if it's my kid or my family, I'll live with the therapy and second-guessing myself. If it's my stuff...well... stuff can be replaced more easily than *someone else's* kid - no matter how messed up or violent that kid might be.
Quote from: Mojo on October 18, 2013, 11:27:49 PM
Count to 5. Go ahead. It's the time you have left on earth when you step outside your next hotel and see someone in your boat. You walk over, start to huff and startle the thief, and the ................. Your a memory.
http://www.wlox.com/story/23681047/jackson-motel-shooting-leaves-one-man-dead
How close does it have to hit home before you protect yourself? Think of your kids ? I do.
Its time. So my wife and I signed up for a CCW class taught by none other than our very own Revtro.
It's time. Go see Revtro, his wife is giving birth soon he'll need the extra customers too ! The law entitles you with this right, it's not a privilege so what's stopping you from training yourself for what could be the most critical 5 seconds of your life ?
As true to my words, spent some very high quality time with my buddy and Revtro
http://concealedindetroit.com/cms/
Guys, Tom and his co-trainer are VERY good. I got to work with - ready - 7 different pieces, to determine which one,
if I get one, is right for me. Next class Feb 8 and also Feb
22. Good luck gentlemen.
Great communication from all from all of you.
Be safe out there
I owe over a dozen hand guns and I can shoot them
But have no plans to carry.
My thoughts are, If i need a gun I'm hunting or in the wrong place
If your going to carry
Please practice and do it some more.
Guns will kill people good or bad
I just took my class yesterday. I have to go to the County Clerk tomorrow and do the application, and then over to the Sheriff's office for fingerprints.
I bought 3 handguns in the last month. They are a new interest to me. They are also a ton of fun. We joined a local pistol club that has an indoor shooting range. My kids are even learning how to shoot.
I'm not going to carry every time I walk out the door. My guns are more for sport and home defense than anything. But I do believe that every gun owning American should practice their right to conceal a firearm if they choose, provided it is legal where they live. I am amazed at how this is taking off. More and more people are doing it now. Maybe the crime rate will slowly start to decline.
I would be interested in hearing reviews about indoor ranges for target shooting. I've purchased a Ruger SR22 for plinking and want to be able to pump some rounds through it.
What are the best options to go around SE Michigan?
SE Michigan has many options in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. There is a free phone app called find ranges that is helpful. Target Sports has two or three indoor ranges, one in Royal Oak and one out near Walled Lake I think. All of them rent eye and ear protection, ammo and firearms. Action Impact is either in Livonia or Redford on 8 mile and Beech. Two people can share a lane for $10.00,1/2 hour or $20.00 an hour. BPS has a range but I don't care for the rules. Westland has a range I think called Firing line on Ford Rd. Madison Heights has Double Action on Dequindre near 13 mile. Island Lake in Brighton has an Outdoor range. I just covered a few. Most want to inspect your ammo and will not let you use steel case ammo. They really want you to buy some ammo from them, Buy your own at wherever for a better price.
There's also
Shooters on 6 and middlebelt
I can understand them not allowing steel case ammo.
It's more or less armor piercing. And could be a problem exceeding the limits of there
back stop.
I went down to the County Clerk's office this afternoon. I filled out the application, paid the license fee, and went to the Sheriff's office to get fingerprinted. The Muskegon County gun board meets on the 18th of February, which means I should have my permit by the end of February.
Good for you mike..... I haven't decided on the gun, striker fire for sure, 9 mm, m&p with safety or an XDs , I heard there is a 4 in barrel out now.... The ruger SR9 is right there. I can't do the glock. no safety, and to have to rack one defeats the purpose of surprise and timing. I think I can practice and practice, and practice so I will be able to thumb that safety down when I draw. The grip safety on the XDs or XDm is near perfect
T bone, we have a lot of options to shoot indoors. Usually they like 2 to a range $20, plus ammo. They'll let you swap guns during rent $10 each swap, that'll let you try a few.
As far as different guns, i found the snubs, 3" subcompacts, (ruger lcp) were too small for my hands, hard to manipulate the slides etc... I really liked the M&p shield, the ruger LC9, but i moved up one more size- I think the 3.8-4" barrel single stack is perfect for Cpl.
Mike man that sure was fun to practice. We'll have to coordinate something around the spring when we get on one side or the other.
I'll have to check out the Target Sports in Walled Lake, that would be the closest one.
I'm taking a CPL class in early March and want to have fired this pistol a least few times before that.
Quote from: huston on January 27, 2014, 08:11:14 AM
SE Michigan has many options in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. There is a free phone app called find ranges that is helpful. Target Sports has two or three indoor ranges, one in Royal Oak and one out near Walled Lake I think. All of them rent eye and ear protection, ammo and firearms. Action Impact is either in Livonia or Redford on 8 mile and Beech. Two people can share a lane for $10.00,1/2 hour or $20.00 an hour. BPS has a range but I don't care for the rules. Westland has a range I think called Firing line on Ford Rd. Madison Heights has Double Action on Dequindre near 13 mile. Island Lake in Brighton has an Outdoor range. I just covered a few. Most want to inspect your ammo and will not let you use steel case ammo. They really want you to buy some ammo from them, Buy your own at wherever for a better price.
I have the M&P Shield 9mm, and the XDS .45. I prefer the XDs. Just for pure knock down power. The only draw back is that the biggest magazine I have seen for it is 7 rounds. It is the exact same size as the Shield, but holds less ammo. It also costs about $150 more than the Shield. Ammo is easier to get for the .45 as well. 9mm is fairly inexpensive, but gets bought up quick. I pay $47 for 100 rounds of .45, and about $27 for 100 rounds of 9mm. Just a few pro's and con's.
Wallyworld has the least expensive price for ammo. Cheaper than Dunhams, BPS, Gander Mountain. All caliber. If you don't want to drive, call the store. Remember bigger caliber cost more, weigh more too.
Oh, by far. The only bad part is that it is hit or miss, at least with our Walmart. That is the only place other than Cabelas that I have found 9mm.
Saw some yesterday at Wallyworld in Troy off Maple, Federal Brand, (FMJ) 115 gr, $15.00.
Not a bad price.
So here are my choices, i know whats too small for my hands, whats too big for me to carry. It's for conceal carry, and the grip safety is , to me, a great big feature. you guys can chime in:
* 9 XDs 3.3 " barrel. 7 r
* 9 XDs 4.0 barrel (in stores this May). 7 r
* 9 or 45 XDm compact 3.8 " barrel. 12 r
* 9 or 45 M&P compact 3.5" barrel thumb safety 12. r
Willing to trade off ammo capacity for conceal comfort / thinner handle. 9 or 45? 3 or 4" barrel for better accuracy? Will it make a difference at 10 - 15 ft? What will?
As I have said, I have the M&P Shield 9 and the XDs .45. I prefer the XDs. They are both about the same in size, but the 45 is a tad wider. You can also change the back strap on the handle of the xds, if it doesn't quite fit in your hand the way you'd like. The XDS comes with better sights right out of the box. I have a hard time shooting the Shield. I'm going to have aftermarket sights put on it.
Both of mine have the short barrels. At 10 to 15 feet, it doesn't seem to matter. I shoot 25 to 30 feet with mine. And do it pretty well. I also bought the extended magazine for the xds, but won't carry it that way.
As far as size for carrying, they are all relatively close, from what I have seen. As far as the 9 mm and 45, anyways. The exception is the Kimber Solo 9 mm carry gun. It is very small, very hard to get, and very pricey at $1200. My dad ordered one and is on a 9 month waiting list.
Doesn't seem that this topic has anything to do with fishing anymore. Maybe it should be taken to the free for all heading? Just a question, don't take it the wrong way. I'm not saying anyone is doing anything wrong.
It didn't seem to pertain to fishing from the get go. There was a link given to the story of the angler who was killed, but no talk of fishing anywhere. It was clearly about a cpl class and firearms.
Wherever it's placed in the forum, it's a subject that a few people want a little input on. Move it if it's a problem. The more we communicate with each other, the more we may understand each other for what it's worth.
Tonight didn't make it any easier... Shot a very clean 12 ft distance xds 9, m&p shield and the XDm. Oh boy !!!!
* The xds 9 was first, very accurate, trigger felt like a glock.....shot like a dream
* M&P Shield 9 was next. Thought is took a little more to find the target each shot, but the trigger was like butter....
* Then the XDm felt like it was meant for my hand. Dead accurate, but would be a touch bulky to carry when compared to the others.......
*
Then when I thought I was thoroughly conflicted, the guy next to me handed me a Kimber ultra carry 2. 45 acp........ Omg... single stack, slim, no kick, accurate, and a 45 bus stopper ???? Now then....
So you had the exact same problem with the M&P that I do. As for those Kimbers, they are a thing of beauty. My dad ordered the Solo something in a 9mm. It is all black, very small, and comes with a laser sight in the handle. But it comes with a sticker of just over $1200, and a 9 month wait. You are really doing your homework on these. I am not that disciplined. I just bought what I liked the look of. You should shoot an XDS 45. I love that gun. Granted it's no Kimber, but it's nice. It has a polymer frame, has a trigger safety as well as a palm safety on the back of the handle. It also has an indicator on the top that shows when a round is in the chamber. Plus it has a back strap that can be changed to Etter fit your hand if need be.
Quote from: Mojo on February 07, 2014, 09:35:06 PM
Tonight didn't make it any easier... Shot a very clean 12 ft distance xds 9, m&p shield and the XDm. Oh boy !!!!
* The xds 9 was first, very accurate, trigger felt like a glock.....shot like a dream
* M&P Shield 9 was next. Thought is took a little more to find the target each shot, but the trigger was like butter....
* Then the XDm felt like it was meant for my hand. Dead accurate, but would be a touch bulky to carry when compared to the others.......
*
Then when I thought I was thoroughly conflicted, the guy next to me handed me a Kimber ultra carry 2. 45 acp........ Omg... single stack, slim, no kick, accurate, and a 45 bus stopper ???? Now then....
Mojo, before you lock in completely on the Kimber, take a look at the Colt Defender in .45 ACP. It's also available in 9MM, if that's more to your liking. Shooting the Colt is like pointing your finger.
I haven't heard of the Colt Defender. Is it a smaller carry gun, or is it comparable to all of the other 3 inch barreled compacts? I guess I could just Google it.
Quote from: Mike S. on February 08, 2014, 07:02:25 PM
I haven't heard of the Colt Defender. Is it a smaller carry gun, or is it comparable to all of the other 3 inch barreled compacts? I guess I could just Google it.
Mike S, it is a smaller carry gun (1911 w/3" barrel), very similar in size to the Kimber Ultra Carry, but the "gripper" style handle makes all the difference in the world for me. Very comfortable to hold and shoot.
If you Google Colt Defender it will take right to the Colt website.
Nice.
So why would you want to spend all this heavy dollars for these weapons when most likely if you brandish this or use it you are going to lose it for awhile any way. The more you spend on a weapon the more likely it will come up missing when you go to get it back. There have been several people that found this out the hard way. Most times that you need to use your weapon will be at 10 ft or less and I have yet to see a weapon that won't hit at that range. If you can't hit something at 10 feet no weapon in the world will help you, except maybe a sawed off 12 gauge. And yes if you pull and point that is considered brandishing which is againist the law.
I see your point Stack. But, weapon is such an ugly word. Firearm sounds much better. I grew up shooting. But it was just rifles and shotguns. The handguns are new to me. I like shooting. It's fun. I also have them for home defense.
I will carry from time to time. You cannot draw your gun unless you need to use it. If you point, you better pull the trigger, and there better be a threat. Consealed carry is a out being discreet. People are not supposed to know you are carrying. Brandishing is illegal. Most who obtain a cpl permit are responsible enough to follow the laws, and don't think they need to be a "big man" by carrying a firearm.
I personally do not feel that I need a gun on me every time I walk out of my house. I'm not afraid of the world, and don't teach my children to be scared either. They do know how to properly handle a firearm, and they have respect for them. I guess carrying is just an added measure of protection, provided you have it when it is needed.
But Stack, I totally hear and understand your take on this topic.
That was well said.
I think cabin fever sets in Stack, and were just bumpin a topic along. Mikes good point is, you'll never know if I'm carrying, or even if I am a carrier. I do know myself too. I will study and study until I buy, whether an expensive rod or anything other $200 I guess. Everyone has a point whether they consider their options vs the dollar they spend. For some its any purchase over $500, some it's $1000.
I know I don't want to buy and sell several handguns and end up with a "collection" before I find the one that's right for me. I probably will anyway. But hopefully just 1 or 2 9 mm and 1 or 2 45s. The risk is me publicly acknowledging I'm pro cpl to our fishing community. That may change a few peoples minds on ol Mojo, but I'm kinda confident that this particular group- time and again- have shown their higher moral turpitude, openness to discuss nearly anything in a calm manner (albeit some members can write mini books as a response,,, aka ,,,,, Steven King Kimmel).
Short end of it is, you can't carry on st Clair cause if you are caught in Canada, you ain't coming back...... So it doesn't affect any of us anyway when we fish.
But to answer your question - why the fuss and a cpl ? Short answer is simple: I'm too old now and can no longer instinctively, immediately protect myself or my family like I used to. Statistics are growing that the older white male (with wife and kids) has much more to lose and are growing targets and easy victims. And I'm definitely getting older.
It's also cabin fever and I'm not going buy anymore rods or reels for a few years.... And I can't get the boat on plane this time a year so bucket fishing is outa the question...... Hope this helps, hope we don't offend .
I was just throwing out a few things that were brought up in my class a couple of years ago. Have you looked at the M&P 40 c. Sweet weapon. There is also the double tap. Which is a 2 barrel derringer chambered in the 45acp. Pulled the trigger twice and you will get their attention.
Mike firearm, weapon all the same they both do the same thing. I was brought up calling guns a weapon because they are same as a knife, club, etc. MSP family growing up.
No offense meant to any one.
Mojo, with a cpl, you can carry on Lake St. Clair. You just cannot cross into Canadian waters.
No offense taken my friend. That Derringer is cool. I saw it in a magazine at my dad's the other day. You can get it in 15 barrel lengths, I think is what it said, and it is available in 20 different calibers. That is a wicked little gun.
Quote from: VinceR on February 09, 2014, 07:53:48 PM
Mojo, with a cpl, you can carry on Lake St. Clair. You just cannot cross into Canadian waters.
My point exactly.... I find myself in them bassified waters quite a bit......