Hey guys, next yr I'm going to run 10#braid as main line and 8# flour leader. My question is...is it better to run a swivel to connect the two or just tie a double uni? I've heard both ways r good. Any help is appreciated. Thanks kb
I use 20 pound braid and 8 or 10 pound flouro. The reason for 20 is it is closer in diameter to the flouro and I feel you get much better connections. As far as the knot versus swivel, I use either a 25 turn albright or more often a modified albright with 12 turns up and 12 back. It is a little more difficult to tie but I have not had one come apart (knock on wood) and we have been catching lots of big mean smallmouth this fall. Hope this helps. TCook and I are off to molest a few in just a bit.
Quote from: Jmeis on October 15, 2013, 02:24:53 PMTCook and I are off to molest a few in just a bit.
Wut?
To swivel or not to swivel is a real split ticket for bass anglers I know.
Maybe it would be easier for someone who hasn't made up their mind yet to consider how much line twist annoys them, and how likely they are or aren't to reel a swivel through a small rod guide?
I'll have to look into to Albright knot. Ya I have micro guides so either way I dont think a swivel or a lil uni knot will go thru. Rite now I'm using vmc spin shot hooks and they seem to b working fine but I've heard u have better feel with braid than straight flouro.
You do have better feel with braid. Just don't set the hook as hard. Especially if you are using small / lighter hooks. You'll lose bass, bend hooks, even shorten the life of spinning reel gears if you're a real Bassmaster hooksetter.
I wouldn't recommend a swivel if you have micro guides and you aren't sure you'll avoid reeling into the guides. A well-tied double uni-knot works good. The Albright variations take practice, practice and you need to make sure you tie them well but they have a history of being used by saltwater anglers for really big, powerful gamefish because of the strength.
In knot tests I have seen though, some Albright variations did not beat all other well-tied knots.
Another nod to the braid/floro leader set up. Never used a swivel because I know I'll wreck guides with it, always used the double uni knot, 5 wraps. Can't think of a single fish I've lost because of the knot. I run it on a 7'2" medium, extra fast Shimano Cumara drop shot rod. Some guys like the medium light rods... too light for me. A surging smallmouth will tear you up if your equipment isn't up to the task and I think medium light is too light. I use the Owner Downshot hook... longer shank, light wire, and VERY sharp. No hook setting required. Just lift and reel. 90% of the fish will be hooked in the roof of the mouth and simply can't get off no matter how hard they try.
I use a St. Croix Avid medium light for drop shotting. It's plenty of rod. I landed a 38" pike on this set up this spring and had no trouble landing him in a weedy 4-5 fow.
If I could only afford one rod that was a higher end rod, it would be my drop shot rod. The extra sensitivity is worth the price. At least it is to me.
I like the yellow Power Pro braid in #20. For a leader I've tried different lines.
Six pound fluoro, 8 # fluoro, 12# fluoro, and 14 # XT. Most of the time I use the 12# fluoro. but will change it up due to conditions.
I used to use 6# fluoro only as a main line, but lost too many fish due to poor hook ups.
I attach the leader (about 3-4' in length) using the double uni knot setup. I've never had this knot break. Never.
I've tried using a swivel but don't usually use it. One exception though is if I'm fishing vertical in current it's not a bad idea. Seems to position the bait in the correct relationship to the current, prevents line twist, and I don't worry about reeling it into the guides.
For hooks I really like the Owner #1 or #2 Mosquito hook and use it when ever the plastics I'm using will allow it. I also use Gammy 2/0 EWG, Trokar round bends when I use bigger plastics.
I tried the spin shot hooks and didn't like them. They seemed to be getting tangled up in the line too much for my taste.
The combination of braid/fluoro and the medium light rod make my set up very sensitive. For me, it's the only way to go. But that's just me.
When you get right down to it, most of it is personal preference. Experiment and see what you like.
I'll add that my drop shot Cumara/Stradic Ci4 is also the most expensive rod/reel combo in my boat. I also like the yellow power pro in 15 lb and 8 lb Trilene 100% or P-line florocarbon. I run this line set up in nearly every situation regarless of conditions and have had great results. But ML is still too light for me. ;)
I just started using braid for Drop shot and really like the sensitivity is worth the hassle and and have tried both the swivel and double uni knot. My drop shot rod is a 7' ML st. croix avid I put Sunline SX1 10 lb and have tried 7lb leader and 10lb leader. I like the 10lb leader I feel like it helps the hook stand out better with the thicker line. There is pros and cons to the swivel you don't have to worry as much about getting snagged up and having to re-tie bc it is easier than tying a double uni-knot however having the swivel crash into your guides is no good. That being said I think i am going to keep experimenting with it but for now I think i am going to stick to using a double uni-knot to connect the flro to braid.
If u do use a swivel, does it take away from the sensitivity any? I also use the gammy d.shot hooks. And I've also noticed that with the vmc hooks the line does twist a lot more around the hooks than the Grammy.
I always use a small swivel that will go into the guides but keep the leader short enough that It normally does not. I have tried the Albright and Uni but have no confidence in it when money is on the line. It takes time to learn these things.
A wise man name Wayne ( I think he sells tubes ) told me a long time ago to fish what you have confidence in. Spend time trying the different methods and find what works for you.
I agree: I don't have confidence in the line to line set up, with two knots to fail. I drop shot with 10 - 20 pound braid tied to a small, high quality swivel, which connects my 8 pound flouro. This set drastically reduces the line twist that wraps around my rod tip (driving me mad)!
Just out of curiosity, is the yellow line to more easily detect bites or what?
Quote from: 32eml24 on October 17, 2013, 07:37:08 AM
Just out of curiosity, is the yellow line to more easily detect bites or what?
I use it for a couple reasons:
1. It's easier for the back seat fisherman to see so they don't cast over you
2. It does often let you know you have a fish before you actually feel it. You can really see it swimming off better than any other line, especially if there is a boy in your line from any wind.
3. It often gets people to ask why I use the yellow line. ;D
All good reasons. So then are you reeling the uni to uni knot through any guides at all? How long of a flouro leader do you use?
Quote from: 32eml24 on October 17, 2013, 08:53:22 AM
All good reasons. So then are you reeling the uni to uni knot through any guides at all? How long of a flouro leader do you use?
I might do it a little different than some... I grab the spool of floro and pull off 2 arm lengths... so about 6-8 feet or so. And yes, the knot often goes thru several guides but the way I cast my drop shot is different than most. I more or less flip it underhand by grabbing the weight, loading up the end of the rod, and "flipping" it out. Very accurate this way since I often target docks and isolated cover with my drop shot. You will never see me thow it overhand... side arm maybe but never over hand/head. I once had the weight come back and snap off the end of my rod when casting it overhand.
I also do a flip cast or sidearm.
No swivel. I have had zero issues with a uni-uni knot. I do put a drop of superglue on the knot. I feel this helps round out the knot and helps it flow through the guides.
Very enlightening thanks for sharing. Something im aiming to get into this fall on natural lakes.
Ya I guess ill just have to try them both. I never Thot about the super glue trick. Definatly have to try it. Im pretty sure I won't b able to reel even a 10#braid/8#flouro uni knot thru my micro guides. I have the dobyns savvy series 702sf w/micro guides if that means Nething . So with that, would it b safe to say mayb just stick to the double uni knot and say away from the swivel?
Always a swivel especially in current and deep water. The key is don't use cheap swivels buy highend ball bearing swivels and use bigger ones that won't go through your guides. Again people always get crazy about fish being line shy and seeing hooks and such. I don't think the fish put that much thought into it. Heck I've even seen a smallie attack a maple leaf floating down the river!
Quote from: Waterfoul on October 17, 2013, 10:14:31 AM
Quote from: 32eml24 on October 17, 2013, 08:53:22 AM
All good reasons. So then are you reeling the uni to uni knot through any guides at all? How long of a flouro leader do you use?
I might do it a little different than some... I grab the spool of floro and pull off 2 arm lengths... so about 6-8 feet or so. And yes, the knot often goes thru several guides but the way I cast my drop shot is different than most. I more or less flip it underhand by grabbing the weight, loading up the end of the rod, and "flipping" it out. Very accurate this way since I often target docks and isolated cover with my drop shot. You will never see me thow it overhand... side arm maybe but never over hand/head. I once had the weight come back and snap off the end of my rod when casting it overhand.
If that is mostly what you do with it why not use a baitcaster to pitch to docks and cover?
Quote from: markgoetsch on October 17, 2013, 08:23:39 PM
Quote from: Waterfoul on October 17, 2013, 10:14:31 AM
Quote from: 32eml24 on October 17, 2013, 08:53:22 AM
All good reasons. So then are you reeling the uni to uni knot through any guides at all? How long of a flouro leader do you use?
I might do it a little different than some... I grab the spool of floro and pull off 2 arm lengths... so about 6-8 feet or so. And yes, the knot often goes thru several guides but the way I cast my drop shot is different than most. I more or less flip it underhand by grabbing the weight, loading up the end of the rod, and "flipping" it out. Very accurate this way since I often target docks and isolated cover with my drop shot. You will never see me thow it overhand... side arm maybe but never over hand/head. I once had the weight come back and snap off the end of my rod when casting it overhand.
If that is mostly what you do with it why not use a baitcaster to pitch to docks and cover?
I can only throw a bait caster for short periods most days due to lingering effects (arthritis) from a stroke in 2006. I just don't have the strength in my left hand anymore. Sucks in Missouri when we throw alabama rigs a lot. I have to rotate constantly to a spinning rod. And, I suck at baitcasting with my right hand!!
Well that's a good reason.
You would lose sensitivity if you used a baitcaster. Spinning rods are so much more sensitive.
Quote from: 32eml24 on October 17, 2013, 03:22:00 PM
Very enlightening thanks for sharing. Something im aiming to get into this fall on natural lakes.
I feel drop shot can be used on all kinds of lakes. I have had great success fishing the drop shot on almost every body of water I have tried it on.
Quote from: Big dreams on October 18, 2013, 08:56:49 AM
You would lose sensitivity if you used a baitcaster. Spinning rods are so much more sensitive.
Absolutely not. If you have an equally quality baitcaster as your DS rod I would say you have more sensitivity with a baitcaster and you can place your cast more accurately. I DS with a baitcaster often (even in open water) and I like the added control when you're dealing with bigger fish.
I totally agree with the post right above.
I disagree.
I place my hand on the rod above the reel. This gives it almost perfect balance. It also puts my hand directly on the blank of the rod ahead of the reel seat.
With that being said, my partner uses a bait casting rod with success.
With a spinning rod I always keep a finger on the line right off the spool mouth for sensitivity. I like using Fenwick spinning rods cause the have a longer fore grip which I can put my whole hand in front of reel when vertical fishing.
Do you guys use braid flouro combo on clear lakes? I am one of those guys that believe that line is everything on clear water. I use flouro 8# only because it is a confidence thing.
Will you use a longer leader with braid in this situation or is set up the same?
Dave
This year I ran 6# 832 suffix braid with 6' 6# Berkeley 100% floro tied with double uni with good success. In the spring I caught a lot of big fish with no breakage issues.
I would usually tie a new leader each time out though cuz knot running thru guides always bugged me.
Quote from: 32eml24 on October 17, 2013, 07:37:08 AM
Just out of curiosity, is the yellow line to more easily detect bites or what?
Not sure about drop shotting, but for vertical jigging for walleye in the Detroit River, I use nothing but yellow high vis. braid. Reason is that it is so easy to see in any weather condition, which aids in maintaining boat control.
Quote from: PineLk 49 on October 18, 2013, 04:57:48 PM
Do you guys use braid flouro combo on clear lakes? I am one of those guys that believe that line is everything on clear water. I use flouro 8# only because it is a confidence thing.
Will you use a longer leader with braid in this situation or is set up the same?
Dave
I use it everywhere, in every water condition. With a 6' leader your bait is about 5' from the braid and there isn't a fish in a lake that will NOT hit your bait because of that braid up the line.