A couple years ago after a club meeting, a comment was made by one of the senior members in my club.
The comment was in regards to the tournament season that hadn't even started yet.
He said that the top ten was going to be pretty much decided after the fourth of our ten tournament season.
We do not go on points, but rather total weight.
All of the "big weight" lakes were moved to the front of the schedule.
In my opinion, a point system would make every lake equal.
In that particular instance we lost participation half way throught the season.
I would like to know what the majority of the clubs do out there.
Thanks,
Josh
We at Team BASS use a point system for each tournament. You get place points added to your weight points for example: 1st place 14.41lbs, 2nd place 13.88, 3rd place 11.67lbs
1st place would earn 50 pts + 14.41 pts = 64.41pts
2nd place would earn 49pts + 13.88 pts = 62.88pts
3rd place would earn 48 pts + 11.67 pts = 59.67pts
Our point system starts at 50 pts then decends to each angler. Every angler gets points at each tournament, if you do not catch a fish you get 10 pts less than the last anglers total that catches fish. Then if you are a no show you get 10 pts less than lowest point total for the angler who fished. This system was created to keep everyone "in the hunt" right up until the end of the year. It has worked well for us.
I like clubs that lean more towards learning than competition. The competition will be there anyway and I think it is more fun in competition if everyone is getting along better.
You definitely don't want to lose participation in a club. You want everyone to participate as much as possible. So I think it would be smart to come up with systems that make everyone welcome, give everyone an opportunity to fish as much as they want to and seem most fair to the most club members.
Team Bass' system seems pretty good for that (and it sounds like they till have plenty of competition going on :)).
The ABA uses a point system as well. We judge angler of the year based on the most points for 6 one day tournaments and the two day tournament. Angler of the year gets you bragging rights and a sweet trophy.
But the cool thing is we have more than 6 one day tournaments in district 7 so if you have a bad finish in a couple it wont effect your AOY points.
And on the natioinal level, the AOY wins a fully rigged Triton TR21x. If you place first in 4 tournaments and 1st in the two dayer you will be in the running against only about 5 other people in the country. Then he who finishes highest at nationals wins. In 04, my friend had 3 1st place and a second and finished 3rd in the two day event. He was in 7th place in the country. He didnt do well at nationals tho. but as it turned out, the guy who was leading for angler of the year won the national tournament and won AOY.
But the really cool thing about ABA is we really do focus on teaching and helping others. I know a lot of clubs also do this, but a lot more do not. We even interview the top 3 to 5 finishers of each tournament and do a post tournament report concentrating on patterns, weather, equipment, times of day, and all that cool stuff so the next tournament people have something to reference. And we usually have lunch right after the Ts as well and talk about what we did that day and the director always sits us down and tells us really cool stories of the one that got away. Its a good time to be had by all.
PoorBoy himself :-\'
Quote from: PoorBoy on January 09, 2006, 01:51:07 PM
...And we usually have lunch right after the Ts as well and talk about what we did that day and the director always sits us down and tells us really cool stories of the one that got away.? Its a good time to be had by all.
PoorBoy himself :-\'
Dude...I'm eating a coney, and it nearly shot out my nose...You ever have an onion and chili in your nose? It's not nice...
Anthony? Stories????
C'mon? I find that hard to believe (the coney thing pretty much explains it though...;))
I like the points system we used lasst season at Team Bass. We normally have 5 events, and keep a running score for AOY. Last year we tried having 7, and let guys drop their 2 lowest scores. The result was a very tight AOY race, that came right down to the last day. Most years we have a clear leader by mid-season, but last year it was wide open down to the wire, with about 5 guys (almost half the club at that time!) still in the running. I would recommend that system to anyone, it allows flexibility so a guy can miss a tournament or two, or burn one day, and still be in the hunt. That system kept things very interesting, and we had almost %100 turnout every tournament.
This year we are going back to 5 events, because 7 tourneys crammed that close together burnt out a few of the older dudes! :-[ I hate to see it go, it worked so well. Now a guy has to show up every time and be consistant, but that is the true mark of a champion. ;) I decided to join another club to get more fishing in, but the guys at Team Bass are so great that I came back. Now I'm fishing two clubs! That will give me my fill.
Our Tear Drop Bass Tournament Trail fishes 6 lakes and we decided to go to a point system several years ago. It evens out the lakes so the spawn lakes don't dominate. The last event often is critcal in our AOY race and our Classic roster. Our angler of the year race has been quite close almost every year weight or points. We also have a two day $5,000 Classic and have went to a wild card draw for that in order to keep those teams who are out of the classic race. Only teams that fish all of the events are in the wild card draw. We average between 20 to 25 boats. Ours, however, is not as learner friendly as I would like. You know how to tell if an angler is lying? Watch their lips. If they're moving they're lying. :) We have some guys that are helpful, but bottom line if you fish for $ whether it's for a little or a lot guys get tight lipped. I usually am pretty staight up because they really don't believe you any way :) Our walleye club, West Michigan Walleye is trophy only no cash and they carry a ton of members and have some great turn outs at their events. You can probably find whatever type of group you're looking for, but it seems to be hard to pry info out of bass fisherman and mushroom hunters.
I go by the same philosophy - lying is much harder and prone to later problems - so I tell the truth - and like you say, half the time people won't believe me no matter what I say...
WOW!!!! That was an overwhelming response.
This helps in my research.
Thank you very much for the detail too.
I am currently on the board for my club, and I would love to see it become "more friendly"
Our club boasts about camaraderie quite a bit, but frankly we could stand to take some of the drama out.
I think that the days of "total weight standings" are going to be a thing of the past.
Is there anybody that is in a club that still goes by total weight?
If so... how is it working out for you?
Our club had a points system last year and even though we weren't fishing for money at all, there was still a lack of info sharing.? It kind of bummed me out, so this year we decided not to have any points at all.? We aren't competing.? Instead of "tournaments", we're having fishing events that focus on sharing info and learning from each other.? That way we're learning more so that when we go compete in NBAA, ABA, CATT, or BASS, etc... we will have a better chance.? Most of our guys fish other trails for money, so we decided that the ultimate way to make sure our club stays fun, friendly and drama-free was to alter how did our events.? I think it's going to work out very well for us this year.? There is a huge increase in enthusiasm and comeraderie already.? Most of the guys bought handheld ship to shore radios so we can keep in touch throughout our fishing day.?
As far as our points system went last year...I didn't like the way it worked.? We only awarded points for finishes, and didn't include any for weights.? We did have points for showing up, but the way it worked out was one guy led for the whole season and no one even had a chance at catching him as long as he at least made a showing every tournament.? The points system didn't allow other guys to stay in the hunt.? So I think adding points for weight may have been better to allow guys to make up some ground here and there.? Plus we were allowed to drop two tourneys.? That ended up really hurting us.? For instance, I had to miss two tourneys, so I only dropped two 0's instead of my lowest scores.? Some clubs award points for every tournament whether the guy fishes or not.? I guess they'd be "participation" points for being in the club.? ?? I wonder if a good idea would be to allow everyone a base number of points for every tournament for the season and not drop any.? Perhaps if they miss more than 2 events they can have some of their base points deducted or something of that nature.? It's hard to have a points system and really have comeradarie and info sharing.? But I applaud any effort to do so.
The guy who led our club last year is an AWESOME fisherman, but if we hadn't been competing, I'm sure I'd have learned a whole lot more from him.? Just my 2 pennies.
Thanks Revtro,
I'm going to print off some of everybodies comments and bring them to my next meeting.
I don't think anyone will be willing to change anything this year.
We have quite a few members who have the mentallity of "That's how we've always done it."
But hopefully, it will get some people thinking for the future.
Our club is very involved with the community, we have even started our own scholarship program for "local" kids wanting to go to college.
I agree with all of you, competition and comeraderie is very hard to use in the same sentance.
If anyone else has anything else to share, I would like to hear from you.
Im in the Alpena Bass Club and we go on a points system. We also have a system that is like a handicap in golf. Even if you dont catch a thing you still get points just for showing up. One tournament out of 6 gets tossed out too, unless you only fish 5 or less. It seems to work well from what ther older members have told me.
I have been a member of wayne county bass anglers for 20 years now and we have always went with a points system. 1st place is 125, 2nd is 120, 3rd is 115, 4th is 110 and then it drops by 2 points every position after that. If you dont catch anything you get 25 show up points. We have kicked around the idea of adding bonues points to the top 3 finishers if they give honest data of how they caught there fish, but decided that the back seat angler always spilled the beans anyway. We fish 6 tournamnets and you throw away you worst finish. This has worked out great for us as the last 4 years there was a tie for 1st place going into the last tournament. It makes for a great last weigh in.
Our club still uses weight for our standings. I have not seen any real advantage within our club standings in the 5 years that I have been in the club. The guy who catches the fish still win AOY. Points may keep the standings closer.
Tom,
A different point system wouldn't have made a difference, he won 5 of 7 tournaments you can't beat that! If we included weight, the race would have been over after Cass. It was a close race for second though.
Good luck next year, Matt
Finally got back on the board. ;D
Our club goes by weight also. We had this brought up at one of our meetings a year ago. At that time we couldn't come up with a good point system that was fair to everyone, so we just left it alone. We have a extremely good group of guys so the "Competative" aspect never really comes into play. Sure everybody wants to win, but they are also very helpful and share their knowledge with anyone who asks. I would hate to change something that has worked for years.
seems to me weight is not the best indicator on a seasonal basis - for any one given tourney - yes. I mean look at all other pro type individual sports - Nascar - its points - not total time spent racing for the season - Golf- its $$$$, the equiv of points, not total strokes - NFL - its wins for position, not total points scored, thats why a blowout on any one game or race doesn't help you that much other than the individual event - besides- I would think AOY would be about consistency throughout the events rather than stacking it up on just a few.
Jack
In my opinion, total weight doesn't determine your best over all AOY. Early tounaments with weight throw those sight fisherman a huge advantage. Mid summer tournaments that are tough should count as much as the sight fishing events. AOY should be your best overall angler and not just those who post large early weights. With points every tournament has an equal value no matter time of year. We don't throw out the lowest tournament, but that is intriguing and worth additional thought to really tighten up the races.
It seems like somebody should come out with a guide book on how to run a tournament season. Kind of like the book I'm reading about Hold'em right now. Have it explain the plus' and minus' of every aspect in a difinitive way so that it might just eliminate "most" of the poo that goes on.
You fella's don't know how much I apreciate your input.
I kept thinking I was crazy.
Josh
That would be a great idea, especially since all the organizations do it in such different ways. If you ever see a book like that, I'd love to read it.
Matt - Sorry if I sounded like I was complaining about the club last year. That's not what I meant. I had a great time and loved fishing against the guy who won all the time. It was a great challenge. I did wish I could have learned more, but it was a great time. I hope you and I can fish together sometime this summer!
EmeryJ, so you're into Hold 'em? I play in a weekly game here on the East side. We don't play for money, just a goofy plastic bracelet that the winner gets to keep for the week. But we have a lot of fun and even let some of the wives play. If you're ever on the East side on a Friday or Saturday night and want to join the game, let me know.
Revtro,
Sounds fun, every once in a great while I make it over there to southgate to visit my buddy from college.
I'll let you know.
Josh
Do i smell a first annual djkimmel Hold'Em tournament?? 8)
I'm there. ;D
Before you get too far... those things aren't legal without a permit. I don't want Lt. Dan to get in trouble.
There.... with that said.... if we can figure it out, I'll play!!!
Maybe we can play for baits, or some od Dan's way-points.
Tom,
I didn't read it like that. I was just saying that he should have been uncatchable with those finishes, any point system that made him close to the field would have been a joke. Kind of like the nbaa point system, doesn't give the winners enough point seperation from the rest of the field. I don't like weight included, everytournament should be worth the same.
-Matt
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. You shouldn't be rewarded because you fished at a time when the weights were naturally bigger. That wouldn't seem very fair. If that's the way it worked, the Bassmaster Classic this year would have meant nothing because no real weight was brought in. Good point.
I have been following this string pretty close and listening to everyone's input, and it seems like the best way to do things would be like this:
(This system works better with more tournaments, say 7 to 10)
-Use a points system, 50 points for first, 49 for 2nd and so on down the line, plus the weight of the fish.
-Anyone who burns gets 10 points less than the lowest scoring angler who caught fish, like points for showing up.
-No-shows get zero.
-Allow a guy to drop his lowest, or better yet, lowest 2 days
This really does make it the most fair, and brings the best overall angler to the top. Sight fishermen get the advantage early, but the best angler will always prevail. It lets a family guy be more flexible and maybe miss a day or two without getting killed in the standings. Some things that can be done to help add to the fun:
-Give a points bonus to the guy who hauls in the "bigfish" Maybe 3 to 5 points bonus. This could really help a guy out.
-Score the Classic at the end of the year, and make it 75 points for first, 70 for 2nd, 65 for third, so there is a 5 point spread between places. This makes the Classic a much bigger event, and might let a guy come from way down the ranks and slide into first at the end.
Just some ideas, but they are tried and tested. We had 7 events last year, scored like above (without the big bass and Classic stuff) and we dropped our lowest two. At the end of the year, the winner had 298 points, with 5 other guys with at least 270 points right behind him. It was very close going into the last event, which is really what we all want. 8)
Yeah, that was pretty similar to what our club last year did. It worked pretty well. I think we had too many points perhaps per event. We had 200 points per event. So I think the numbers were a little farther apart, so the classic wouldn't have made much difference. I could be wrong...I don't totally remember how the points ended up. But I like that system, it seems very fair if you're going to have a points system.
I like the point systems. In the club last year as Matt stated it dosn't matter what type of system we had in place when a guy wins 5 of 7 tournaments and gets 2 drops i do't care if we did half points he would still win since we didn't include weights. To me a good point system is the only way to go in order to show how anglers did throught the season.
Well said, Dhuff