Hey guys, I have a buddy who has a 01 triton tr-21 w/ 225 optimax w/ 27p prop, and jackeplate. When we r doing about 60mph the boat will start to walk. This is with 2 guys, gear, full (just water) live wells, and give or take 1/2 tank of gas. From what I have read from other posts and bass fishing forums, it sound to me like the jack plate needs to b adjusted to the proper height? Is this correct? I also kno that weight distribution in the boat has some to do with it, but for the most part its pretty balanced. Other than the jackplate, is there anything else we can do to fix it? Thanks, kb
Some boats are more prone to chine walk then others....If your setup is right then your friend may have to drive through it the best that he can....While still being safe....Here is a video from BBC.
http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=134300 (http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=134300)
Your Jackplate height should be set to optimize holeshot and handling while on plane...Lowering it down some may help with Chine walk but you will pay with performance losses someplace else...
27P prop seems a little large for that setup...Has he tried going with a 4 blade smaller pitch..Start with maybe a 25P...?? If that smaller pitch 4 blade is within his RPM numbers that may help some with Chinewalk...What is his motor Height now???
That boat will be a hand full no matter what you do!!! As mentioned - 25 pitch trophy will make it easier to handle. Does it have a 27 tempest now? Opposite of what was recommended, you probably have to raise the engine to reduce the walk. But measure height first - prop shaft center will likely need to be 3 to 3.5 below the pad (lowest part of boat).
Also - make sure the motor is not over trimmed due to running too large of a prop.
tritons are notorious for chine walk. you'll probably never get rid of it - try a few things but i wouldn't break the bank to find a solution.
Just put thedude in your passenger seat and you won't have to worry.
Motocross, it had a 24p, but the gears or shaft or something was bad so it would slip so instead of buying a new one his buddy gave him the 27p to use. The holeshot is good, and top speed is good w/ a slight chop, its just when its calm! It is set 2" below pad.
Smbassman, it is a 27p fury 3 blade.
His rmps r right around 5700 also!
Set-up can only do so much, the rest is up to the driver. You never drive "through" chinewalk, you drive to prevent it. My boat was an animal when I first bought, cause I didn't know how to drive. Nobody I knew had a boat that would lift and run like mine, so I learned on my own after reading on BBC. One thing I did cause I fished alot by myself was put my rods in the starboard box, and the heavier stuff on the port. Put a level across the boat with the normal load and see where you're at.
The driving part is easier to learn if you know someone with a fast boat that can take you out and teach you the "feel". It's basically steady left pressure on the wheel, with slight corrections to the right when you feel it tipping the other way. Way easier typed than done, I know, but once the light bulb turns on, that hull will be a cupcake for to you to drive.
I've never driven a Triton, but a friend has one, and he doesn't drive past the mid 60's, but another friend with more experience has driven it past 74, because he has more experience.
BTW, my boat is a '96 202 Champ with a strong 225 EFI with cowl mods @ 74.5 - 75 gps at 6k with a 25 trophy.
Matt
maybe you can find something in this
http://www.bassboatcentral.com/new_page_2.htm
look under the triton forum on BBC also if he hasnt done it, post some questions those guys im sure will help him out
When I stated Drive "Through" chinewalk It depended on the severity of the chinewalk taking safety into consideration...Steering wheel input and trim adjustment at the onset of chining can bring it under control without risking safety....If the boat starts to swap excessively then obviously you have to start trimming down and get off the throttle..
I haven't had any real extreme issues with any of the boats that I have owned...A couple of adjustments at the wheel if things start getting loose and I am good......My last boat was a 74 mph Bass Cat Jag and my current rig is an 80mph Puma FTD...I have only had my new rig out long enough to break it in but haven't seen any sign of the Puma getting loose...
5700 RPMs with that prop sounds about right....He must have been pretty high with his RPMs with that 24P......I have been really happy so far with my 26p Fury on my 250 Pro XS.....
2 inches below pad seems a little low....I am not familiar with Tritons but I would bet most guys are running between 3 and 3.5 like smbassman suggested....I ran my 225 at 3.25...
Whatever you do, don't allow the chine walk to keep building to the point where you feel you have to over-correct. That has gotten some people I've known in some serious hurt up to and including never fishing again if you get my meaning. Two of these incidents happened in Triton Boats from that general era. As soon you feel it start, start to back off and trim down, but not too fast. Over-correction is often worse than steadily slowing down and trimming down a little.
If it keeps trying to quickly get into a bad chine walk, then stop trying to trim up and go fast UNTIL changes are made that improve it. I know moto didn't mean to just let it all hang out, but I am amazed how many drivers try to 'drive through it.' DON'T TRY TO DRIVE THROUGH IT!! Just don't let it get going in the first place without immediately doing something to keep it from happening.
If the boat is remotely unsafe at higher speeds, then stop trying to drive it at higher speeds until changes are made to make it safe. I can't repeat that enough. We should make this sport more safe, not less. A boat that size and power that chine walks much at all at 60 mph needs something done to it before it is driven at high speeds again.
Ya the walk isn't bad, he obviously prefers not to have any! And if its just a matter of adjusting the plate to get better performance and a smoother ride,might as well! Thanks guys for all the help! We will prob take it out this wkend and start adjusting. Will let ya kno how it turns out.
Another interesting read on the subject, http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=390628&page=1
Moderate chine walk should be correctable with one of the tips above then. He's probably pretty close to getting it right. My message above is for anyone. Especially new bass boaters. I just don't want anymore phone calls or messages about something bad happening to someone I know. Safety should always come before speed especially in Michigan where the inland speed limit is 55mph or less. The only place you can legally run over 55 on the water in Michigan is more than 1 mile off shore in the Great Lakes.
Not telling anyone what to do. Just doing my job to keep you informed about things that can help you make your decisions based on good information.
Most guys that have ridden with me know I drive like an Old man...... ;) I just air it out every once in awhile when conditions are right.....Those opportunities are rare on LSC and Erie....
Coming from various off-road racing sports I have had safety pounded into my head...I probably should have worded my initial post better....On the boats that I have owned you can feel them start a little chining but they react positively to corrections....I didn't mean to imply to drive "through" a dangerous situation....
+1 on what DJK said. Please.
Putting the pieces together - if your friends boat is running a 27 Fury @ 5700rpms and ~65mph, he is running about 25% slip. Properly set up it should be ~9-12%
If the 2" below pad is a good measurement - lower the motor 1.5 inches to start(yes that much- Fury's like to be set deep because they lift so much). Do not be trim happy, once on pad trim up just until there is no bow steer and increase throttle to fully open. There should be minimal steering torque or feel loose and no rooster tail. Then slowly bump up trim. When the boat starts to lift, stop trimming and learn to drive that speed comfortably. If the bow gets "wagging" try slight pressure to the left to correct it. Get a feel of the timing - If the boat ever starts tilting (actual chine walk) trim down to neutral trim quickly and slowly get out of the throttle.
Get comfortable with the bow wagging, but never try to drive through the side to side walk.
Last of all - If he is able to turn a 27 Fury with a standard 225- He has the strongest 225 I have ever heard of. That is way over propped and the only way he is getting 5700rpms now is to over trim the motor and allow the prop to slip. The 24P he had was probably slipping because it was set too high on the jackplate.
If the 27 fury is in good shape, I have a 25 trophy in exc. condition that I would consider trading to get him something that will be easier to handle.
Another good prop to try is a Trophy OT4...I had one custom ground by Mark Croxton with one of his custom blow out rings and it made all the difference in the world....The Trophy OT4 is a relatively inexpensive prop also...
I ran a 25P on my 225 Evinrude.......
My ZX202 has a 225 Yamaha on it with a 27 pitch prop. She runs real good. 70's with 2 guys, and the jackplate all the way down. No exaggeration, just had it out 2 days ago on Muskegon and saw it on the gps. I wanted to run it without using the plate, and was pleasantly surprised.
Quote from: mikeszr800 on April 06, 2012, 07:22:46 PM
My ZX202 has a 225 Yamaha on it with a 27 pitch prop. She runs real good. 70's with 2 guys, and the jackplate all the way down. No exaggeration, just had it out 2 days ago on Muskegon and saw it on the gps. I wanted to run it without using the plate, and was pleasantly surprised.
I can believe it. Some 225s are strong enough to turn a 27 (like a tempest). But a 27 Fury is more like a stiff 28 tempest. Most often, you have to drop one inch in pitch when going from tempest or trophy to a Fury.
I did not know that. Learn something new everyday. I was thinking about a Fury when I had my Nitro. Would have been nice to know that then.
As a Triton owner I can say with certainty that you will never see it go away completely. Proper set up and prop choice is the only way to calm it down some. That 27 is too much prop as mentioned. Tritons LOVE 4 blade props. It's on my short list of changes for this season... currently running a 23" Lazer II and hate it. Just not the right prop for the boat (the boat came with this prop). Every one I've talked to (mostly on BBC) says the Trophy Plus 4 blade is the way to go on Triton hulls. So I'm currently looking for a used 22" Trophy Plus 4 blade. Not easy to find... and when you do they go fast!
An your friends boat I'd say the 24" Trophy Plus or possibly a 26". This will help with the chine walk but like I said, you can never get rid of it completely on a Triton hull. They are fast boats when driven and set up correctly but there is NO substitute for time in the seat.
Quote from: motocross269 on April 04, 2012, 05:12:48 PM
Most guys that have ridden with me know I drive like an Old man...... ;) I just air it out every once in awhile when conditions are right.....Those opportunities are rare on LSC and Erie....
Coming from various off-road racing sports I have had safety pounded into my head...I probably should have worded my initial post better....On the boats that I have owned you can feel them start a little chining but they react positively to corrections....I didn't mean to imply to drive "through" a dangerous situation....
I think most everyone knows what you meant. I was just clarifying to make sure!
Sorry just noticed the link in my original post didn't work. I will try it again it is a link to thread on bbc.net by Mike from Triton boats on this subject helped me a bunch.
http://www.bbcboards.net/triton-boats/93054-lets-talk-about-triton%22chine-walk-myth%22-what-its-really-doing.html
hope this helps
Jerry
I've got a '00 TR-21 with a (used to be) 225 on back. Couple of things will help. About 8 inches of setback is great for that hull. I run a 6 inch hydraulic with 2 inch spacers. I'd never be without a hydro jackplate again; you can tune the height while you run for conditions. Try a 25 trophy also. The older 'toons need stern lift because of hull design and the extra weight of the 3 L motor.
Understand that somewhere around 63-65 mph that hull is going to start to walk, no matter how good your set up. Chine happens when enough hull is out of the water that the prop tries to become the stationary object, and the hull begins to rotate instead. At the same time, the bow falls; hence the "bucking" like a mad bronco.
You don't drive "thru" chine walk; you learn to balance the boat. It's no different than when you first learned to ride a two wheel bike. You learned to correct your steering when the bike tried to fall over. Same thing here, you make a small steering correction when the bow tries to fall over. Seems hard at first, but with seat time seems like no work at all.
First fall I had my rig, I spent the last 15 minutes of my weekly fishing trip trying to go fast. Took me 2 months to get over 65, but I quickly was into the high 70's after that.
Don't buy the stuff you hear about other brands not walking. Chine walk happens when you get enough hull clear of the water. Even a Ranger would start to walk if you could get that heavy hull to clear some water.
Watch the video from the posted link, it'll help a lot. And have fun. It's a great rig & a rocket when you learn to squeeze the last few MPH out of it.
Ah, the reckless abandon of youth... You kids and your speed... There you go again... picking on my beloved Rangers!!!
I got a brand new Ranger Z520 to do some serious chine-walking with a nice, new big outboard down on Bull Shoals a couple December's ago. I was moving right along too!! More speed than I really ever need. I don't like that chine walk very much. I was trying to see how far I could trim that baby up and there wasn't anything else in the boat. Not much gas either. Plenty fast once you leave that 70mph mark behind in any boat.
I ran a beautiful Ranger Z521 with a 250 Yamaha SHO well into the 70's! Seemed pretty fast to me too! I was impressed that a rig that stable, that safe and so stable to fish out of could still go so fast - unlike some of those wobbly 'knife' hulls were you can barely stay standing when fishing the rough stuff on the big water!! That is some smart engineering right there!
Of course, the inland speed limit in Michigan is only 55mph so you don't need to go that fast. Heck, my ancient Ranger 492VS goes that fast.
In fact, many times I see bass boats and speed boats running way too fast for constricted and traffic areas on inland lakes. It's just not worth the risk on most inland lakes. Save some gas money and stick near that speed limit. You can always open 'er up 1 mile off shore on the Great Lakes. Just watch those boat wakes, the three sisters and floaters! Been there, done that with the floaters and that isn't much fun either!
You definitely don't want to let the chine walk get out of your control and the main point to remember is that at the speeds we can run, it can go bad faster than you can react. I've been there, done that too. Hope to never do it again... And we aren't always all lucky with the results so keep it on the safe side. A few of my friends and fishing acquaintances have not been lucky and that should never happen.
Fishing is supposed to fun and safer is more fun. I like all of you. Even the ones that make fun of my Rangers (though not as much ;D ). We might as well actually try to live longer rather than just think we'll live forever! :)
This topic has been a pretty helpful and good discussion, I think. I'm glad we have lots of good experience and willingness to help on here.
I checked the various links out quickly. Didn't see a video. Two of the links end up as not found. Do you have to be a member and be logged in on there to see pictures and video?
Dan
The first time I saw this thread the videos worked but no longer, I posted a link to a thread that Mike Curtis from Triton posted on another site and when I looked at it today I got the same message that comes up when I try to view the earlier videos. I reposted the link today and it seems to be working.......go figure
I didn't even read the big message at the top - duh... they changed their forum software. I didn't read why but that can be a chore. Depending upon how redirecting of links was handled before, old links might not work or they might still be in the process of making adjustments to get prior links to work. I feel that headache with them. Internet software can be like really fast boats - great when it works and then, something goes wrong, and it isn't that much fun anymore. For a while anyway!
They're probably still working out the kinks. The Internet is probably playing catch up to the new settings also so things may be a little hinky for up to a week. Some computers adjust real fast and some are slow to change.
That must have been one big headache over there... Every time one of us has to do that it upsets quite a few people for a while. It was a culture shock over on lscn when they completely changed their format. The new format looks good on lscn but that is quite the change all at once!
I'd never pick on anybody for owning a ranger. I'm at the point in my life that I appreciate a Cadilac; I'm just not ready for one yet. Ranger hulls run a little on the heavy side in order to get that good ride. They are a well designed hull with great ride being a priority.
Dan, you're absolutely right about speed. Too many boaters forget to slow down when the waters get congested. Good running conditions ain't just about weather, but open room to run too. I never push the edge unless I've got clear water ahead & enough distance to enjoy it.
BTW- I like you ranger guys. I keep the back end shiny so you've got something pretty to look at... ;D
That's okay. We're usually too busy admiring our own boats and thinking about all the bass we're going to catch from them!!! ;D
I've done a few dumb things in my past related to speed and maybe testosterone. I always hope to help others learn from that. Glad to hear you're into safety first. We could improve quite a few things if everyone would do that.
One thing I don't miss about tournaments is that one guy... you know the guy. The one who gets that look in his eye at the morning takeoff that says all I want to do is get to my spot first and I'm shutting off all other thinking until I get there!!! It usually involves bulgy eyes, straight ahead staring (without much blinking) and close calls for other boaters at no wake areas and any constrictions. I have seen that guy do incredibly stupid things over the years!
One of the Elite pros we interviewed last week - Rick Clunn or Zona maybe - talked about backing off a little and getting their without knocking your thinking lose. He said you're already behind everyone else when you get their and you're thinking about the beating you just took or the ride experience rather than the fishing you now need to do. I have seen so many of the really good anglers pull up after everyone else is there, looking calm and collected, then preceding to put a hurting on the rest of us!
That's what Mike Trombly told me about switching to the Ranger 621 walleye type boat. He said he feels so much better getting to his spot and not feeling beat up or worn out just from getting there. Of course, that is a great choice for someone who mostly fishes Lake Erie.
When you really get down to it, we're all a little nuts to go out on the Great lakes in bass boats. If I were forced to only fish the big water, I'd be in something like the Ranger fisherman series.
Reality is that most of us don't really get a chance to run all out on most lakes. Most often there's too much traffic, too big of waves/wakes, or you just plain run out of lake. But the thing I find most useful about having a faster rig is the ability to punch it and move when I need to. I fish Belleville a lot. Since the lake has several twist and turns, you often end up in a "meeting" of a pack of boats all converging from different directions. That's when I like to be able to punch it for a burst when I see an opening that will get me out of the traffic snarl. Not to cut anyone off, but to make sure I'm quickly out of somebody else's way.
I love to cut loose on the big water. My house in Alpena is right across the street from a ramp on the Thunder Bay river, about 1/4 mile from the Bay. If the water's smooth, I'm up early and getting my fix. But I've really done 35-45 MPH most days on big water, not 70-80.
I open my baby up once in a while. I can feel the gas I'm burning though so I keep it that mid-range more often to save money. You're a lucky angler to have a place near Thunder Bay. There's some big, dumb smallies out there. Or, at least there used to be? It's been a while since I fished there.
That burst of power is nice for surprises too. My outboard has some great torque to even my ole Ranger can jump ahead! I really enjoyed fishing out of the big Ranger Fisherman boats for comfort in rough water. I'm not in much of a hurry anymore and they still move along good. I like the piston seats too if they have them though all the newer seats are much software. That's one advance I'm glad to see, along with padded front decks!
Watch out for bats out there on the Bay! They like to land in your boat and find a hiding place!
I rode with a top Local Ranger guy in a BFL a few years ago.....We made the run up to Lake St Clair from Elizabeth park and he drove pretty conservatively......Especially on the way back..Didn't stop him from cashing a nice check at the end of the day.
I have ridden in a couple of Ranger 520/521s that ran over 70 MPH with 2 big guys and a tournament load...That is plenty fast enough....
Consumers are lucky to have so many good choices....For me it just came down to service after the sale....
Love my place in Alpena, house I grew up in. Moved down here for college, met a girl, been here since. Kept the place after my parents passed. Ain't fancy, but big & very nice. A good place, with lots of history.
Truth be told, I haven't really chased smallies on the bay much since I was young. Long and Grand lake are a few minutes north, plus Rush and Tomahawk about 30 min. west, Hubbard about 30 minutes south, you can see where the choices get overwhelming.
The smallies are really untapped in that area. Salmon, trout, and 'eyes rule up there. I'm kinda the rock star when I roll into town, big shiny bass rigs are rare enough to raise an eyebrow up there. ;)
My inlaws live on Long Lake. I love fishing Long and Grand Lake...I wish they would improve the ramps on Long lake. It can be tough getting your boat off the trailer on both the county and state ramps there when the water is down.
I haven't been to Thunder Bay in quite a while but it was pretty cool the last time I was there. The smallies were not smart. Lots of dead water, but it was all very scenic. Plus, one evening I hammered salmon along a shallow rock bar on Bomber Spots while the trollers went back and forth outside of me not getting bit!!
Another great part of the state to fish but it is more out of the way than other parts so I don't get over there very often.