http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20110617/NEWS03/306179983
This is a story about someone fishing waters in the Thousand Island region of upstate NY - got stopped in Canadian water, got fined and almost had his boat confiscated if he wasn't going to pay the fine....
Anyone have any similar experiences or know of anything like this happening??? Our NYBCF is having a tourney oput of Massena later in the summer and we will (hopefully) be fishing a lot of canadian waters.....thanks,....
I stopped by the Canadian customs, Michigan, and Ontario Natural Resources booths at the NOVI Showspan show and asked specifically how I could be legal when venturing into Canadian waters. What they told me to do was exactly what the fishermen in the article did.
Have a Canadian license and sport card.
Have either my passport or enhanced driver's license.
Do not anchor, moor to a Canadian boat, or touch ground on Canadian soil.
Don't bring live bait in from Michigan.
Make sure my boat was equipped with both MI and Ontario safety equipment.
They flat out told me that if I followed these things I would have no problem fishing in Ontario waters, nor returning to Michigan.
That story sounds ridiculous. EVERY single Canadian border/customs person I've spoke to has told me that you have not entered Canada if you don't anchor, tie up to a Canadian boat or touch shore. A few have even told me that anchoring doesn't count (which is just more examples of getting multiple answers from different people.
I even had a couple young, but very nice officers tell me you don't have to report unless you run significantly up an inland river from the Great Lakes.
I personally go only by the answers that have been consistently given to me by all the officers I've asked which is the not landing on shore, not anchoring and not tying to a Canadian boat or dock.
I think these officers should be investigated. There's only two possibilities in my mind: 1) the US anglers were rude or did some other problem-creating action that wasn't reported; or 2) one or both of the officers had really bad hemorrhoids and was taking it out on the world (which would make trouble for non-countrymen since we are a race with many 'you're not from around here' types in it - unfortunately).
If the anglers didn't do anything to unreasonable to instigate the worse, these officers are the kind of bad abusers of power I can't stand to know are out there. If the anglers did not do anything that legally accounts for landing in Canada, it's a shame they are not in the position to bring a suit against the Customs department. Sometimes the legal system and the press are the only way to weed out the power abusers and the people who don't do the right thing about it.
I would like to hear an explanation from the officers on why they felt they had to 'harass' US anglers. It would be cool if the press would try to make this happen. Otherwise, it might be necessary to put pressure on their government by informing anglers and boaters not travel to (or buy stuff from) Canada.
This story doesn't surprise me at all, especially in Gananoque. I crossed there many times when I lived in Upstate NY and always had trouble, and that was by land in my truck. I tend to believe your theory #2 Dan. I think that the officers that come to exhibitions and have a lot of contact with the public are not those who are stuck out patrolling the border. I like Canada, but I sure that that border. It's the worst that I have experienced in the world.
That is useful information though very sad.
So your drift fishing the south shore of st.clair......you get into a school of fish and you drop your power poles....are you anchored?
Yes
http://www.bassmaster.com/news/canadas-border-crackdown
Here is an article in bassmasters about it.
Quote from: fiker on June 21, 2011, 09:16:38 AM
I stopped by the Canadian customs, Michigan, and Ontario Natural Resources booths at the NOVI Showspan show and asked specifically how I could be legal when venturing into Canadian waters. What they told me to do was exactly what the fishermen in the article did.
Have a Canadian license and sport card.
Have either my passport or enhanced driver's license.
Do not anchor, moor to a Canadian boat, or touch ground on Canadian soil.
Don't bring live bait in from Michigan.
Make sure my boat was equipped with both MI and Ontario safety equipment.
They flat out told me that if I followed these things I would have no problem fishing in Ontario waters, nor returning to Michigan.
I hate to break the news, but you can still get fined! If you get an officer who wants to "GO BY THE BOOK" you must report in before fishing. You can hear all you want, but when you get the ticket-see if the guy who told you that will pay it for you. My guess is he won't. The law is if you enter into Canada, any form of entry, you legally must report directly to Customs. $1,000.00 if you don't and if you get the officer that want's the write up-they will write the ticket. Try peeing over the side and get caught-that will cost you $500.00.
We've been checked multiple times this year and last and the Canadian Officers just wanted to varifie everyone had a license. Those who didn't were hit with a fine. As far as going to Canada, it's not a problem, it's when you come back and get stopped by the US Border Patrol is the ones to be concerned about.
On opening weekend of the Canadian opener some friends from Downriver Bass were fishing an inland lake in Ontario for the weekend. Saturday night around midnight they got a knock on the door and it was a Canadian conservation officer wanting to search their room and boat on a tip that they were catching and keeping bass beyond the limit. After searching them and talking to them he relised they were just some hardcore bass guys that release everything they catch and told them to keep enjoying themselves. The Canadian Officers in general are good to the good guys and not so nice to the law breakers. Play by the rules and you won't have many problems, has been my experience with them.
That's been my general experience too in our area.
Yep, it's always been a pretty easy thing. HOWEVER, I just spoke to the Canadian Border Patrol. There is a new law in affect since this past week. I posted about it in the Fishing Great Lakes section. Things just changed for the worse. Not good. Go read it.
This appears to be the latest on fishing Canadian waters: http://www.bassfan.com/news_article.asp?id=4008
I guess I'm gonna wait and see how this plays out for others. Right now, I'm just a little peeved off.
I've always obeyed the law, played by all the rules. All I want to do is fish the south shore, and a few spots in the lower Detroit River. Not gonna smuggle, break any possession limits. Nothing.
If I go into Canada, and call, they can determine to send me to an inspection center. I don't know where these places are, nor am I sure I could even find them from the water.
My first inclination is that this is the last year I obtain a Canadian license.
Quote from: fiker on July 13, 2011, 11:28:06 AM
My first inclination is that this is the last year I obtain a Canadian license.
I'll second that Rick.
I'm going to roll the dice for the northern open coming up in sandusky....
I go out of Lakeside,Ohio quite often to fish Pelee Island.The only thing I've ever been told is that you have to call and report that you're going to enter Canadian water 30 minutes prior to doing so.Once you make the call,you have to report who all is in the boat.At that point,they will make the determination whether you can cross or not.Unfortunately,if you're already in Canadian waters,they can(and sometimes do)require you to head to(what they determine)the nearest customs agency so you can be checked.For those of you that don't believe this to be true,just last Sunday a tad north of the border near North Bass Island,four Canadian Border Patrol boats along with a helicopter were nabbing walleye trollers that strayed across the border without calling to report in first.We personally watched them have two boats following them to the customs check area.I was told that they just started to enforce the call-in law in earnest on July 1st.If you cross over the border without first calling in,it is a $1000.00 fine-minimum!
Someone in the US definitely ticked off someone in Canada recently because this is all new. This is some kind of vendetta or tit-for-tat action that I would have thought the Canadians were above. I will keep hunting for what set this off because I promise it is out there. I'm betting this comes down to one Canadian politician or bureaucrat with a bee in their bonnet and this could all be solved by identifying that person and putting the pressure on them to back off. I really did not expect to see the day when Canada would be more harsh than the US in border issues.
I don't even think they are enforcing their own regulations correctly. This is a 'reinterpretation' of existing regulations. And it is a poor one.
It has been reported that the provincial government is refunding the money to the original anglers in New York, but what about all these new 'criminals' (anglers)? I guaranty that Canada will lose a lot more money in lost license revenue that they gain in these wasteful and capricious fines without even factoring in the cost of hassling (harassing) harmless anglers and boaters.
Not to mention the impact of bad will on voluntary travel choices to Canada by Americans.
Actually, I don't believe that these regulations are "new". It was announced in 2008 that these regulations would be put in place (to take effect in 2009, but not sure of date).
What DID happen was that the the enforcement of the regulations was put on "hold", pending further review of how the enforcement would affect recreational boaters/fishermen, and giving the border states time to develop and make the "Enhanced Drivers' Licenses" available.
There may also have been some concern over how boaters would notify the respective border agencies when crossing into foreign waters.
I believe that what has happened recently, is the result of someone jumping the gun (on removing the enforcement "hold"). It (the "hold") was either lifted without properly notifying all parties involved, or, someone in the Canadian Border Services Agency came across a "proposed" date for lifting the hold, and took it to be the "official" date that enforcement would commence (without verification).
How this happened is just my theory.
I have now been told that the two guys that were forced to follow the CBP were on the Canadian side of the line and hadn't phoned in prior to crossing.They were taken to an unknown destination to be checked,and most likely fined/boats confiscated.I have to agree,somebody peeed off somebody in Canada recently.This could be a huge problem for TX anglers,what happens if you're co doesn't have the proper papers? You'll be forces to fish around marinas for green bass!Like I said,I launch at Mazurik and go out to Pelee,not only just in tournaments,but 2 or 3 times a week.I thought all I had to do was call the stupid number before I cross and things were cool.Now I find out that in addition to calling in,I have to have a passport to boot.Even then that doesn't guarantee that they will even allow me to fish,they could order me to some far away marina to check me out!I have made three calls to Canada since yesterday,and each time I was told the same thing-you have to call before entering,and you have to have a passport,or an enhanced drivers license with you.The enhanced drivers license is a joke also,I found out that only three states even have them,lucky for you guys that Michigan is one of them,Ohio is not.Looks like my Canadian fishing just came to a halt!
An alternative to the Enhanced Drivers' License is the NEXUS Card, or CanPass. Neither guarantees that you won't have to appear "in person" to be checked in (nor does the Enhanced License), but they all may limit the amount of hassle that you might have to encounter.
It is also my understanding that they are aware of the issues surrounding tournament anglers and charter captains. They are (supposedly) looking at ways to streamline the process to accomodate anglers in these groups.
Stay tuned...
The NEXUS, CANPASS 'membership' and all the other options ONLY work if everyone in the boat has them. Something happened somewhere to kick this off with no fanfare and just a big SURPRISE!!! ;D
I still cannot find any change in, or clear definition of arriving in Canada that mentions just crossing the border on water. That is why I'm sticking with my theory that someone has reinterpreted their law to change the meaning of arriving in Canada.
The only real good thing about this is the amount of heat they are getting for this may actually make it more like they back down to something more plausible.
If I am in Canadian water but have not "landed" and Canada customs tried to board me I think I would consider that piracy! There will be quite a few "international incidents" if this keeps up!
Sure would like to know where this is coming from so we can flood them with calls and emails.
Yeah... the 'source' is the key. There has to be a source. One dude sitting in a big cubicle or small corner office somewhere...