Since purchasing my boat a year ago I've added Stabil Marine formula religiously to each tank of gas.
I've talked to several other boat owners who also swear by either Ring Free, or Sea Foam to help prevent carbon deposits. It appears that Sea Foam is less expensive than the Ring Free. Sea Foam can also be purchased at Meijer Thrifty Acres.
Questions:
Do most of you use both the Stabil, and one of the other two additives?
Is there a difference in performance between Sea Foam and Ring Free?
Should the Sea Foam/Ring Free be added to every tank of gas, or periodically to clean off deposits?
I usually use Star-Tron and sometimes Stabil Marine and usually use Ring Free unless I run out. I think that there is a new Ring Free version that treats ethanol too so maybe I will just try that to kill two birds with one stone. With the price of gas plus additives it is getting really expensive, or even more than it used to be. I sure wish 100% gasoline was sold everywhere.
I use Merc Quick Kleen every other tank. I am planning on changing all my fuel lines this spring. been reading the horror stories on BBC about fuel line damage and Ethanol.
I religiously used to put Stabil in every time I filled up, even though I used premium fuel every time. Then I blew the engine, and looking at the tops of the pistons didn't convince me that the Stabil worked extremely well. Haven't used it since, not sure if I'm going to go back to it or not. Some real proof of one working well would be nice!
1jav
Quote from: 1javelin on February 28, 2011, 05:33:43 PM
I religiously used to put Stabil in every time I filled up, even though I used premium fuel every time. Then I blew the engine, and looking at the tops of the pistons didn't convince me that the Stabil worked extremely well. Haven't used it since, not sure if I'm going to go back to it or not. Some real proof of one working well would be nice!
1jav
Hey Jav, did your OB need premium? I've run it on and off and just recently learned that if your motor doesn't require 93, such as higher than normal compression from milled heads etc., it's actually bad. Basically an octane rating is a resistance to burning, higher the number the harder to burn, so if a motor doesn't need it to prvent detonation, it tends to leave a lot of carbon buildup. Carbon holds too much heat, and causes bad things to happen.
I run seafoam in about every other tank, and do the shock treat with a small portable tank with .75 gallon gas and 16 oz of seafoam once a year. You basically hook it up in front of the primer bulb, and start the motor. Idle around the lake at 1000-1500 rpms for 10 min, shut it off for 30 min, and repeat until its gone. then hook the main tank up and run it. Every time you start it after it sits when doing this, it just pours white smoke, that's the carbon burning off. The other good thing about seafoam (or ring free, or Quick kleen) is that they help keep your injectors clean, which prevents a lean condition. I also run stabil in every tank, but that's more for ethanol.
The Merc page on BBC has a "cocktail" pinned at the top that a very respected Merc tech suggests to run in every tank.
Matt
I only use Stabil when I over-winter a full tank. I'm not one to add a lot of extra stuff to my gas. Sea foam is a GREAT cleaner...but I haven't felt the need to do that yet to the OB on the boat...my engine runs great...and I only fill with 100% gas...never ethanol. I really don't go through a lot of fuel anyway...not a lot of long runs lately. Will probably change the plugs this spring...maybe due for a SeaFoam cleaning...maybe...we'll see what difference the plugs make.
I ran the 93 mainly because that was the only fuel I could find at any station around here without the 10% ethanol mix. I'm going to look for a station with no ethanol in the 87 or 89 now, stuffs too expensive to be spreading the wealth.
1jav
Quote from: 1javelin on February 28, 2011, 07:30:57 PM
I ran the 93 mainly because that was the only fuel I could find at any station around here without the 10% ethanol mix. I'm going to look for a station with no ethanol in the 87 or 89 now, stuffs too expensive to be spreading the wealth.
1jav
If your motor doesn't require high octane, you should NOT run it. It will actually cause damage in the long run. It takes more heat and pressure to make high octane fire, and it actually causes more wear than if you were to just run the 87 it was designed to run on.
I run the Quick Clean about every other tank... and use ValveTech ethanol treatment in every drop of gas I put in my boat. The ValveTech additive is the best rated ethanol treatment on the market.
Quote from: 1javelin on February 28, 2011, 07:30:57 PM
I ran the 93 mainly because that was the only fuel I could find at any station around here without the 10% ethanol mix. I'm going to look for a station with no ethanol in the 87 or 89 now, stuffs too expensive to be spreading the wealth.
1jav
I totally understand that mindset. I've always heard that premium had a longer "shelf life" before going bad. But think about how few people use it. I wish I knew more about gas stations. Are the tanks the same size for every grade, or are the higher grade tanks smaller due to less demand? My brother has to run premium (250 XB), and is always asking what stations I think are moving the most volume of the good stuff and would have the freshest gas. I never know what to tell him. My OB is like a small child, it lets me know right away when it doesn't like what I feed it, and I usually don't go to that station again. Slower hole-shot is usually the dead giveaway.
Matt
Quote from: dartag on February 28, 2011, 05:05:13 PM
I use Merc Quick Kleen every other tank. I am planning on changing all my fuel lines this spring. been reading the horror stories on BBC about fuel line damage and Ethanol.
I do the same. With quickleen and stabil I have never had a fuel related problem.
Matt,
I can tell you the easiest way to find a station moving a lot of premium. They have higher end cars in the tanks all the time, like Vettes, BMW's, etc... A lot of the higher end vehicles specify 93 octane. I typically would think Shell or BP for those. Just an observation.
Valve tech huh? Going to have to look into that. Does it just help with the engine, or does it stop the mush stage it puts your tank and hoses into?
1jav
Quote from: 1javelin on February 28, 2011, 09:35:23 PM
Matt,
I can tell you the easiest way to find a station moving a lot of premium. They have higher end cars in the tanks all the time, like Vettes, BMW's, etc... A lot of the higher end vehicles specify 93 octane. I typically would think Shell or BP for those. Just an observation.
Valve tech huh? Going to have to look into that. Does it just help with the engine, or does it stop the mush stage it puts your tank and hoses into?
1jav
Helps with the entire octane issue from tank to exhaust outlet.
And if you talk to any certified mechanic for any brand motor, they will all tell you not to run high octane fuel in a motor not designed and meant to run on it. Unless you've upped your compression in some way, you will see no benifits from it, and it can and will do harm in the long run. Properly treated 87 octane is less damaging. Just trying to help you out. Our older motors will run fine on the E10 as long as you treat it properly. High octane can actually give you worse performance, slower hole shot, less top end, and lower fuel mileage. In the long run, adding the Valvetech and some quickleen now and then costs about the same anway. I just keep both in my boat so that when I hit the gas station I just add it before the fuel goes in. All mixed up perfectly every time.
I run Ring Free in my Optimax w/ regular 87 octane and have been very happy with the outcome. I run a shock treatment at the beginning of the year and it keep me going. I know someone who can tell you that NOT using a product to keep your engine clean will lead to losing a cylinder during a tournament and a 5 cylinder Optimax is NO FUN on LSC...
wow, I don't know what kind of moron wouldn't put at least quickleen or something with there gas ever! That just doesn't make any sense. But I bet from then on he put quickleen in everyother tank.
Quote from: markgoetsch on March 01, 2011, 01:00:59 PM
wow, I don't know what kind of moron wouldn't put at least quickleen or something with there gas ever! That just doesn't make any sense. But I bet from then on he put quickleen in everyother tank.
Hmmmmmm..... ;D
It starts to get confusing after a while. I started using Marine grade Stabil, then was told by a marina rep that Star Tron was the best, now it seems he mentioned something else the last time I talked with him. He's a friend, so I trust him but still. Then recently I talked with a guy that worked at the plant that made Etecs and he said sea foam was the best choice concerning ethanol. All I know is you have to have an additive if you run ethanol and other additives like Ring Free can't hurt. It's a huge investment you are protecting !!!!
I use an additive so I don't pay much attention..... are there many stations that still sell the gas without Ethanol??? I think I recall that in either Michigan or Indiana, they don't even have to label it as having Ethanol in it.
That same marina rep I talked about mentioned he had a tough decision to make last Spring. Go with more expensive regular gas or the cheaper gas with ethanol at the dock. He went with the 100% gas.
Quote from: Waterfoul on March 01, 2011, 03:45:12 PM
Quote from: markgoetsch on March 01, 2011, 01:00:59 PM
wow, I don't know what kind of moron wouldn't put at least quickleen or something with there gas ever! That just doesn't make any sense. But I bet from then on he put quickleen in everyother tank.
Hmmmmmm..... ;D
Now all that right there will start the day with a good laugh!
I heard Sea Foam is made from whale urin, is this correct? ;)
I could be mistaken, but I don't think in Michigan anymore that they have to tell you if there's Ethanol in their gas or not.
So, this is what I've gathered from this thread so far.
1. I should continue to use my Marine formula Stabil, (or another similar product) in order to combat the ill effects of Ethanol in my 87 gas.
2. Using a product like Sea Foam, Merckleen, or Ringfree is also necessary to reduce or eliminate carbon deposits that can cause engine damage. Some I've talked to add this wither every tank, but it seems that some of you only add it to every other tank.
Question: I believe it is the Ethanol in the gas that cause things like fuel lines to deteriorate. (correct?) So; if I've been using Stabil, then I shouldn't have to replace hoses. Correct?
I've always used Stabil and I've never had any fuel related problems over the last 15 years. After reading these posts I am going to run some Ring Free through the motor this year. Just to be on the safe side.
Willie
There are two types of Stabil on the market. Regular and one with an ethanol deterrent. The ethanol deterrent one is labeled, cost about $10.00 for a small bottle and $20.00 for a big bottle. The big bottle is the best deal and I think with the increase in ethanol in our fuel is going to make this item a hot commodity at least among boat owners.
fiker,
I'm not sure the stabil completely eliminates the effects of ethanol, or just makes it not separate out. It depends on how long ago your boat was rigged. Check out:
http://www.bbcboards.net/zerothread?id=526471-performance-problems-upgrade-your-fuel-line-primer-bulb-first
Changing a fuel line for peace of mind is a lot cheaper than the alternatives.
Hope this helps,
Matt
E10 only seperates when it sits for a long period right? I change my fuel filter every year use stabil over the winter and thats about it. I'm going off info from the etech owners group forum. Motor runs great. just changed plugs last year. Tech said everything looks good. Gas doesn't sit long in my tank when i'm on lsc. Inland lakes maybe a month or so between fill ups.
I have used ring free in every tank of gas that has been put in my boat and I have had NO problems at all with my motor. 2006 yammie 150. Runs like a champ. Last time I had it in I asked if I should change the plugs and was told if it was running fine not to worry about it.
I found several articles on the Boat U.S. site re: ethanol in gasoline.
Link to an article found there entitled "With E15, Boaters, Anglers Will Need Extra Vigilance When Filling Up at the Gas Station":
http://www.boatus.com/pressroom/release.asp?id=616
I believe in our discussion last year we learned that gasoline with ethanol in it gives poorer gas mileage. So I'm guessing that more ethanol means even less potential energy per gallon.
In the article entitled "Three Myths About Ethanol" Seaworthy April 2010 pg. 9
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/SeaApr10Ethanol.pdf
The third question found in the right hand column: "Are there additives that will prevent phase separation?" seems to go along with this thread.
I found this sheet most informative:
"Boat US Ethanol Fact and Tip Sheet"
http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/e10Tips.pdf
So, what I'm reading tells me to never use even E10 in my boat no matter what additives I'm using. It can phase separate and cause problems. So, how do I determine which gas stations do not use ethanol in their gas? I was told that with E10 in Michigan that they don't have to put a sticker on their tanks like they used to.
Looks like to me we're in trouble with this new gasoline. I read all those articles and looks like fuel is already going to be $ 4.00 a gallon and Stabil isn't the answer either. What does quickleen do?
You will have to look long and hard to find a single gas station on LAND that does not have ethanol in their regular gas. The Valvetect station at many marinas do not add ethanol to their regular gas, but you will pay a premium per gallon to get it on the water.
In the Grand Rapids area I do not know of a single gas station that is selling ethanol free regular gas.
On the same token as the ethanol issue... running 91-93 octane premium gas in a boat motor not designed to run on it is also considered a no-no by the manufactures and every mechanic I know.
This is from the label on the Merc/Quicksilver Quickleen:
Use in 2 and 4 cycle engines each tme it is fueled
Use in all octane grades of gasoline including gasoline with ethanol added
Quickleen Engine Treatment helps restore maximum power and performance
Synthetic cleaners remove deposits in the combustion chamber while preventing corrosion and future deposits from forming
High concentrate formula
One ounce to 6 gallons.
I run this on the recommendation of my mechanic and Mercury. Bear in mind that this is not an ethanol treatment.
I also run Valvtect Ethanol Gasoline Treatment
From the bottle:
Specially formulated to prevent ethanol and non-ethanol gasoline related problems, improve engine performance and enhance fuel economy. Continuous use helps.
Stabilize fuel up to 1 year
Keeps moisture in suspension (very important)
Prevent phase seperaton
Prevent octane loss
Prevent corrosion
Clean-up carbon deposits
Improve power and performance
Reduce fuel consumption
1 oz per 7 gallons
I run this after talking to the Valvetect rep here at my store, and seeing test results from an independent test of this product vs. other ethanol treatments.
With all this said, I don't get carbon deposits, my motor starts first turn of the key every time, I don't have water issues, and have not witnessed any phase seperation issues.
I went to the Oakland County Airport today. they do not have 87 octane gasoline. they have 100 octane low lead gas. They also have "jet A" which they said is similar to kerosene. I guess Ill still be filling up at the Londo Lake Store in Hale, luckily its about 30 houses from my cabin.
Frank
I run Evinrude brand fuel additives in every tank (both Carbon Guard and 2+4) every marine mechanic I have spoken to about it has told me that they are both worth the investment.
I found a product at West Marine on Telegraph last fall.
It is called Phase Guard 4. It claims on the bottle that it prevents phase separation unlike many other additives.
I put it in the tank for my winterization. I figured this would be even better than Stabil.
I hope come Spring that I was correct.
Startron is a product that may help with the ethanol problem and there is a web site called www.pure-gas.org that list stations that sell ethanol free fuel.
If you are in NW Mich the Arcadia market and Bayview party.store in Frankfort both sell premium 90 octane with no ethanol.
Run it in my boat as well as my quad, generator, mowers, etc.
There is a small power loss with ethanol fuels but have run the non ethanol since new 2 years ago so no reference.