I have been ignoring the other similarly titled topic for over a month for obvious reasons. Judging by the tremendous number of views, and the tragic suspension of "Mark117" in its wake, it still appears to be a senseless mosh pit.
I believe that current and future TBF members need to focus on how we can improve our organization in the near future and over the long term. Please join TBF of MI or consider joining before commenting. So what will the next meeting hold in store for The Bass Federation of Michigan? 8)
Eric Bond
TBF Renegade
Well you seem to be suggesting that anyone that is not a current member of TBF and may be hesitant to re-join, should not express any opinions or concerns regarding the organization!?!? ??? If that's the case let's make another stipulation; "anyone that is delusional enough :P to think that their presence in a state fish-off tournament has value to anyone other than themselves (and should be fully compensated for actual time off work and all travel costs), should not be able to express ANY opinion regarding ANY fishing related topic on ANY Internet site (or listen to Buckethead)". ;D How's that sound? ;)
Quote from: ebond on December 17, 2009, 12:46:16 PM
I have been ignoring the other similarly titled topic for over a month for obvious reasons. Judging by the tremendous number of views, and the tragic suspension of "Mark117" in its wake, it still appears to be a senseless mosh pit.
I believe that current and future TBF members need to focus on how we can improve our organization in the near future and over the long term. Please join TBF of MI or consider joining before commenting. So what will the next meeting hold in store for The Bass Federation of Michigan? 8)
Eric Bond
TBF Renegade
maaaaannnn!!! i was enjoying mark117 and his views :( :( ???
and the rabbit hole spirals deeper. ::)
I honestly think almost everyone on the other thread is trying to make the federation better in their own way. In my opinion, a small number of people seem unaware of how the democratic process works. I am pretty confident a large number of people get it. It's nice to see many people willing and able to share their opinions in a mature and respectful manner, trying their best to keep a hot topic from getting out of control.
That's much better than some telling other people they can't have their opinions just because they are or seem different, or for some other equally irrelevant reason. To me, that last kind of attitude is the pathetic one. Simply because it is guaranteed to cost members for any organization.
If people didn't care, they wouldn't bother to comment AND they wouldn't join. There are members out there to be gained. Now it's just a matter of the right people showing they are listening. And learning. Or not...?
To me, there's a simple concept at the base of all of this - the price for anyone of coming here and sharing their opinion, is to expect and respect the opinions of others fairly and equally. Because everyone's' opinions are no more or less equal than anyone else's. It can't go only one way - my opinion only and no one else's. That makes absolutely no sense to any thinking person. Anyone who wants to be heard must be willing to give equal time listening to others.
Don't disrespect others. And don't disrespect the site. Very simple.
I will be interested to see how the Fund raising events are going...Hopefully I will be able to make one or two...
I will be interested to see how the numbers have grown...
I hope I will be able to pick up tickets to the "Stricker" raffle..
I wonder how the conservation project is coming...
How is Brian coming with volunteers and whatever else he needs for the Jr State fish off...
I hope our club members have their FLW membership materials by then.. ;)
I am sure I will think of more as we go... ;D
Quote from: djkimmel on December 17, 2009, 11:39:17 PM
To me, there's a simple concept at the base of all of this - the price for anyone of coming here and sharing their opinion, is to expect and respect the opinions of others fairly and equally. Because everyone's' opinions are no more or less equal than anyone else's. It can't go only one way - my opinion only and no one else's. That makes absolutely no sense to any thinking person. Anyone who wants to be heard must be willing to give equal time listening to others.
Don't disrespect others. And don't disrespect the site. Very simple.
Amen.
I'll be at the mtg but will be
listening and hopefully learning first. I hope to be able to voice a question or concern should I have any.
If I may offer this perspective: Yes, I fish the BFLs and tournaments are important to me (within reason), but my first goal is to find ways to expand the youth programs and even try to find the avenues to start "clubs" in the local downriver communities/schools.
More to come later,
Scott
Quote from: River Rat on December 18, 2009, 05:02:51 PM
Quote from: djkimmel on December 17, 2009, 11:39:17 PM
To me, there's a simple concept at the base of all of this - the price for anyone of coming here and sharing their opinion, is to expect and respect the opinions of others fairly and equally. Because everyone's' opinions are no more or less equal than anyone else's. It can't go only one way - my opinion only and no one else's. That makes absolutely no sense to any thinking person. Anyone who wants to be heard must be willing to give equal time listening to others.
Don't disrespect others. And don't disrespect the site. Very simple.
Amen.
I'll be at the mtg but will be listening and hopefully learning first. I hope to be able to voice a question or concern should I have any.
If I may offer this perspective: Yes, I fish the BFLs and tournaments are important to me (within reason), but my first goal is to find ways to expand the youth programs and even try to find the avenues to start "clubs" in the local downriver communities/schools.
More to come later,
Scott
Scott, I went to the last meeting and the board was very receptive to comments by the members that were in attendance..The meeting was well run and 2 way conversation was encouraged...Look forward to meeting you..
Brian
Brian
Quote from: Mike Nolan on December 17, 2009, 08:27:31 PM
...their presence in a state fish-off tournament has value to anyone other than themselves (and should be fully compensated for actual time off work and all travel costs), should not be able to express ANY opinion...
Quote from: ebond on November 11, 2009, 11:48:19 AM
...The state team needs roughly $11,000 to cover the costs of lodging, travel fuel, team shirts, and boat fuel and oil...
This total does not include any personal allowance for a week off from work or other miscellaneous expenses...
For now, it does not appear likely that sufficient state team member expenses will be covered by TBF of Michigan...
Mike must have forgotten that the estimate that I mentioned did not include any extra spending money.
Quote from: Mike Nolan on December 17, 2009, 08:27:31 PM
Well you seem to be suggesting that anyone that is not a current member of TBF and may be hesitant to re-join, should not express any opinions or concerns regarding the organization...
Sorry, let me rephrase my statement so that Mike does not feel unappreciated...
Quote from: ebond on December 17, 2009, 12:46:16 PM
Please join TBF of MI or consider joining before commenting.
TBF needs more members who can appreciate the honorable traditions of the federation, which include resource conservation, youth activities, and championship tournaments. It's good to see that most of the comments here prove the potential for the continuing improvement of TBF of MI. We welcome new and returning members who are willing to contribute. The next meeting should shed some light on who we can look to for thoughtful and unselfish leadership. 8)
What happend to Mark117? Did he get the boot here? This TBF thing is touchy business here eh?
I have a lot of respect for Dan and I know he doesn't want complete mayhem on his board. Frankly my first instinct was to ignore Mr. Bond's most recent comments because his past comments lead me to believe he is not very reasonable and I doubt I could say anything that would change his way of thinking....but I just couldn't do it! ::)
Eric, you state; "For now, it does not appear likely that sufficient state team member expenses will be covered by TBF of Michigan...". Your use of the word; "sufficient" is proof of your delusional thinking. :-\'As much as some people like to fool themselves into thinking they are professional fishermen because they've won a few local tournaments over years of trying, federation tournaments are for amateur fishermen. You pay your entry fee and your own expenses to compete in the initial state fish-off. If you make a state federation team you are given a "reasonable" amount of money based on monies raised by and for the event to go to the divisional. What is reasonable is based on what the federation can afford to fairly allocate to individual team members. You should understand going in that you will still most likely have some out-of-pocket expenses to fish a divisional. For some reason you feel you are entitled to more money than what these federations have determined they will give to team members. Where do you think your extra desired money should come from? Should the federations take money out of the general fund? Should federation members not involved in the divisional do a fund raiser? Should Obama give you some stimulus money? I heard you had similar concerns at the last BASS federation Presidents meeting regarding your expenditures for the 2010 divisional in Escanaba. As you were told there then, you'll get what you get and if you don't feel it is enough don't fish it. No offense but nobody cares how much it costs you to take off work to fish a divisional and frankly nobody cares whether you even fish the divisional. Make no mistake; you are participating in fishing tournaments for nobody but yourself. If you bow out the next guy in line will gladly take your place. Fishing a divisional is not a fully compensated job in which your services are necessary. If your money is that tight you better stay on the job.
I am disappointed that Mike has chosen to continue with an extremely personal and highly unproductive tone in this forum. This does not appear to be an appropriate environment for sharing ideas before our general meeting. Nonetheless, I am confident that a few GLB forum readers can appreciate the benefits of having a discussion here.
Quote from: Mike Nolan on December 23, 2009, 05:39:36 PM
Your use of the word; "sufficient" is proof of your delusional thinking...federation tournaments are for amateur fishermen...What is reasonable is based on what the federation can afford to fairly allocate to individual team members. For some reason you feel you are entitled to more money than what these federations have determined they will give to team members.
Sorry, let me rephrase my statement so that Mike does not feel unappreciated, AGAIN...
Quote from: ebond on November 11, 2009, 11:48:19 AM
...The state team needs roughly $11,000 to cover the costs of lodging, travel fuel, team shirts, and boat fuel and oil...
These figures may not be perfect, but they are close to accurate for the purpose of this discussion. Mike is quick to criticize me for wanting to ensure that state team members will not have to pay their own way, but he does not deny the actual cost of the program.
I believe TBF of MI should consider the costs to its members when planning all of their programs, including the state team program. Unfortunately, TBF of MI has a tradition of burdening a small minority of its members with time consuming and costly programs. Belonging to our organization should benefit, rather than burden, our members.
Lets hope that optimistic members like myself will have an opportunity to express our concerns at the meeting without having to endure baseless criticism and blatant disrespect. That is certainly not the case here. 8)
Quote from: jerkin on December 22, 2009, 08:25:52 PM
What happend to Mark117? Did he get the boot here? This TBF thing is touchy business here eh?
I do not wish to or like to publicly discuss private matters that may or may not exist between myself and specific members of GreatLakesBass.com. I'd prefer others don't either out of respect for the forum and/or the member. It is usually a good policy to not believe everything someone else might tell you either. Thanks.
How about discussing getting all of our TBF Clubs together to make one big TBF tournament series - say 4 tournaments a year Detroit River, Muskegon Lake, St. Clair, and then go up north to Wixom or even Charleviox. If we get 80% of the members to fish these 4 tournaments we could payback 90% and put the 10% into the State Fund. Add 1 or 2 Youth and Conservation Awareness Charity tournaments were anglers would take a sponsor and younger kid out and we'd be looking at a surplus of funds in my opinion. To me the State Fish Off is enough to get involved but it would be so much easier to grow membership exponetially if there were events on both sides of the state every year. I know there is the BFL but they don't even think about coming over to the West Side; there are a ton of guys over here just waiting for the TBF to duplicate what the BFL did back in the mid 90's - it was a Michigan circuit and now it is not so why don't we step up and make it happen? I don't think FLW would mind to much.
I know there are a lot of tournaments out there guys already fish but I feel that the TBF can and should become the premier bass fishing organization in the state. We have to start covering all of Michigan, fish 2 on the eastern side and 2 on the western side and it will be the only tournament option that has a classy group of serious competitors with the overall interests of the sport as its priority. The TBF already sets time aside to focus on Youth Fishing and Conservation so put all the pieces together and we will have the most angler centric deal in the state. I am new to the TBF so I might be a little overzealous with the optimism; from what I can see it is moving in the right direction. Once we start to put the politics aside and focus on improving things not for ourselves but for everyone the TBF of Michigan will be hands down the best club, federation, and tournament circuit in Michigan. I don't think anyone else will do it so why don't we?
I don't see TBF becoming a full time tournament organization...That is not the way a Federation is designed...A Federation is suppose to be a Group of Clubs that Stage their own tournaments to select the club's team then meet once a year for a State Fish off..
Take a look at the Boater Numbers that the BASS Federation gets for their Classic series..The payout and free handouts for that series is awesome yet they have a hard time getting more than 30 boats...(And MI BASS has alot more members)
I think if you want to stage a Club Open with ROI as the host club or whatever that is viable..To be honest I don't think this state needs another series especially one that doesn't have regional and national implications......
I can tell you no one in my club would have any interest in fishing another series..Between club tourneys, BFLs, Opens, and state fish offs everyone's schedule is pretty full..I struggled selling them the TBF state fish offs with their already busy schedule...The thought of an opportunity to make it to a National championship like fellow club member "Savage" did this year with BASS is what brought them to TBF..
I agree with moto on this one Luke, I see your thought and its not a bad one but the federations are not TX trails.
Michigan is so over saturated with trails allready that its embarrassing to say that I fish any of them except BFL's and the detroit river open becouse those are the only tournaments that draw a decent amount (over 100) of boats and a good diverse field of competitors.
IMO the excessive amount of existing trails and very small clubs is "THE" main reason why Michigan bass fisherman are not a stronger and more united force.
ebond--Are you suggesting that making the state team is a burden? If TBF or BASS don't pony up enough money to fund all of your expenditures, might I suggest standing on the street corner holding a sign that reads "WILL FISH FOR MONEY"!
WOW! I think you all are nuckin futs! What the hell happend to this forum? With the acception of a few you all are a bunch of freaking crybabies IMO. You can close my account Dan i could care less, this place is going to hell in a hand basket anyways. To bad, i used to enjoy this forum. Now just a bunch a people complaining about stupid stuff. Dan suggestion, stop the bleeding man before this forum dies, cut these dudes off.
Sighing off NOT A BASS PRO,
Deven Bond
Quote from: jerkin on December 24, 2009, 01:14:10 PM
WOW! I think you all are nuckin futs! What the heck happend to this forum? With the acception of a few you all are a bunch of freaking crybabies IMO. You can close my account Dan i could care less, this place is going to heck in a hand basket anyways. To bad, i used to enjoy this forum. Now just a bunch a people complaining about stupid stuff. Dan suggestion, stop the bleeding man before this forum dies, cut these dudes off.
Sighing off NOT A BASS PRO,
Deven Bond
You've been a member since June 2008 and this is your 29th post and this is what you come up with???? Nice post....Pretty constructive....
Eric, I think you got the Troll you were looking for with the continued version of the last thread....IMHO
Quote from: ebond on December 23, 2009, 07:44:18 PM
I am disappointed that Mike has chosen to continue with an extremely personal and highly unproductive tone in this forum. This does not appear to be an appropriate environment for sharing ideas before our general meeting. Nonetheless, I am confident that a few GLB forum readers can appreciate the benefits of having a discussion here.
Quote from: Mike Nolan on December 23, 2009, 05:39:36 PM
Your use of the word; "sufficient" is proof of your delusional thinking...federation tournaments are for amateur fishermen...What is reasonable is based on what the federation can afford to fairly allocate to individual team members. For some reason you feel you are entitled to more money than what these federations have determined they will give to team members.
Sorry, let me rephrase my statement so that Mike does not feel unappreciated, AGAIN...
Quote from: ebond on November 11, 2009, 11:48:19 AM
...The state team needs roughly $11,000 to cover the costs of lodging, travel fuel, team shirts, and boat fuel and oil...
These figures may not be perfect, but they are close to accurate for the purpose of this discussion. Mike is quick to criticize me for wanting to ensure that state team members will not have to pay their own way, but he does not deny the actual cost of the program.
I believe TBF of MI should consider the costs to its members when planning all of their programs, including the state team program. Unfortunately, TBF of MI has a tradition of burdening a small minority of its members with time consuming and costly programs. Belonging to our organization should benefit, rather than burden, our members.
Lets hope that optimistic members like myself will have an opportunity to express our concerns at the meeting without having to endure baseless criticism and blatant disrespect. That is certainly not the case here. 8)
Since you started this thread by calling a similarly titled thread, "...a senseless mosh pit", you are not only inconsistent and hypocritical(by claiming that you have to, "...endure baseless criticism and blatant disrespect...", as if calling another thread/discussion, "...a senseless mosh pit", is not blatant disrespect), but either disingenuous, delusional, or just a plain rabble rouser. It's getting pretty obvious that it is not your intent to add anything constructive, but rather to raise the ire of members of this board. What makes this most obvious is your claim that the money given to the state team is not sufficient, but still supporting the no-entry-fee State Championship and your refusal to answer questions about how this seeming illogic works somehow in your world.
Please tell me how throwing out $5,000 (50 entries x $100-a low number) and just using membership dues will lead to you getting more money for the State Team?
I think there are too many "Personal agendas" being pushed here...ROI group if you want to run a series then do it...I think you have a shot on the west side but the rest of the state is already saturated with tournaments in our short tournament season...Knock yourself out, nobody wishes you bad luck we are just giving you our personal opinion based on what we have seen....Maybe you can prove us wrong..That would be OK with me...
Eric, You don't need to push or defend the boards actions here....Time will tell and most of us are willing to help out and see where it goes....No one should get PO'd because someone questions an organizations direction...If that was the case Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the GOP mouths would have been hung last December....I talk and email with Jeff and I think he is generally sincere in what he wants to accomplish, my advice would be to let actions speak for themselves..We will know soon enough if the Plan will work....To be honest I have my concerns but I am along for the ride...(I helped to put together one of the new clubs so I am dragging 6 of my buddies with me)
My only question getting somewhat back to the original post is TBF still doing a booth at the Novi Show??? I haven't heard anything about staffing that....
Moto, What the hell does the number of posts and my membership date have to do with anything? I like to read what's going on here mostly and lately like i said before, there seems to be a very negative vibe here and a bunch of crybabies. Although i am not a bass pro like your self and have over a 1000 posts here i still am entitled to speak my openion here as you are. Cry on, cry on i am out.
Please tell me how throwing out $5,000 (50 entries x $100-a low number) and just using membership dues will lead to you getting more money for the State Team?
[/quote]
Unless Im reading your post wrong it sounds like your saying that Eric had something to do with eliminating the entry fee for the state championship and he expects membership $ only to support the state team ?
From what I understand it was a decision that the new president and board came up with and Eric does not hold a board position, in addition it is my understanding that the state team money will only be partialy funded if any by dues and the state team will be funded by fund raisers and the sales of sponsor merchandise/certificates...ya know...the sponsor merchandise that USED to disappear under the old regime ;)
There is ALOT of $ in sponsor merchandise money allready earned and more is coming, am I sold on the new plan ?...nope but the old plan sureley wasnt working and IMO the state team was under funded, as Brian said time will tell and being a nay sayer isnt going to help the new plan but thats obviousley some peoples personal agenda >:(
I think the no entry state TX idea came up becouse its hard to sell a $100 no payback TX to someone and tell them that if you finnish in the top 13 it will cost you another $500 to go to regionals.
by the way...Eric does have some good sound business ideas once in a while like financial records, accountability, organization of board positions and commitie chairs and a fully funded state team plus hes a friend of mine Mark so chuck me under the "lets run over Eric bus" too :D
If you think financial records, accountability and organization and a fully funded state team shouldnt apply to TBF inc ive got some prime swamp land in Florida for sale!
Quote from: jerkin on December 24, 2009, 02:02:01 PM
Moto, What the heck does the number of posts and my membership date have to do with anything? I like to read what's going on here mostly and lately like i said before, there seems to be a very negative vibe here and a bunch of crybabies. Although i am not a bass pro like your self and have over a 1000 posts here i still am entitled to speak my openion here as you are. Cry on, cry on i am out.
Dude Ive known Brian for years and he has never declared or acted like he thinks he is a pro, he has a beutifull bass cat thats TX ready but still chooses to fish as a co, do you have ANY idea how dumb you just made yourself sound...and realy bro...who's crying ?
Quote from: jerkin on December 24, 2009, 02:02:01 PM
Moto, What the heck does the number of posts and my membership date have to do with anything? I like to read what's going on here mostly and lately like i said before, there seems to be a very negative vibe here and a bunch of crybabies. Although i am not a bass pro like your self and have over a 1000 posts here i still am entitled to speak my openion here as you are. Cry on, cry on i am out.
Really, my comments towards you have absolutely nothing to do with my or your fishing ability and I will be the first one to tell you I am the farthest thing from a Pro....It has more to do with an established history of contributing to this site...I would take more stock in your last post if you had shown some type of history of constructive or positive comments intended for the good of the forum...I really didn't see much of that when I read the history of your last 29 posts.....
You have to remember that alot of guys on this site fish and know each other pretty well.....I show these guys respect and we all pretty much know where we stand with each other, most of these guys I consider friends in fishing....I don't think you have seen me make a personal attack on anyone on this site...I would expect the same in return...
Cast and Blast...Thx
Lets take a time out and count to ten on this thread please. Merry Christmas.
Dan