New article today about the bass season. Guess I am ok with CIR. I see some major conflicts on the water with tournaments. Where guys are keeping fish when others can't.
I live on a lake where guys are out the day the ice is out. I know " Pan Fishing ". At least this way they can say what they are fishing for.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/outdoors/2015/03/22/lydia-lohrer-fisheries-order-upended/25176389/
Just my .02
There were 4 proposals
And the DNR added the CDR for tournament anglers
Seems if they support CIR all year it's a change, Now we just need to see were LSC opener falls
Michigan Bass Season Change Options
1.No change. Leave the bass seasons as they are now.
2.Michigan Bass Nation Proposal: Year-round catch-and-immediate-release statewide; move Lake St. Clair system (LSC) harvest opener (from third Saturday in June) to statewide bass opener Saturday before Memorial Day when all other waters open for catch-and-keep choice (harvest).
3.Year-round catch-and-immediate-release statewide with the same harvest seasons currently in place – Saturday before Memorial Day for all waters except third Saturday in June for LSC system.
4.Year-round catch-and-immediate-release statewide. Change Lower Peninsula (LP) inland and LP Great Lakes (including LSC system) opening harvest (catch-and-keep choice) dates to last Saturday in April; Upper Peninsula (UP) inland and UP Great Lakes to May 15 to align with pike and walleye openers.
So it works for me
I don't fish LSC allot, and I don't fish tournaments there
What you as sportsman can take away are 2 important thoughts:
Take Away #1: You can work and meet and politic and work and meet and speak and get 4 options on the table, you can get a slightly more conservative but still science based, regulated 5th option... But 1 anti-fishing journalist, and 1 self-preserving guide, in the last moment, can wipe everything away everything in the final hour (I told you guys to get up to Rosscommon)
Take away #2: If you can efficiently provide your slant, with exaggeration, through newspapers and videos, to the masses, you CAN change a law makers mind s
I personally was OK with the NRC 5th option, and even the 6th option (year round CIR).
This will work out for tournament fisherman in the end. Here's why:
Bass weights are dipping down. My theory is the goby population flourished, then smallies adapted, gourged themselves, and the invasive species was not sustainable. So now smallies have to expend more energy to catch their meal (perch, etc). Add to this rising waters, colder temps have something to do with it, but these 3 changes have had an effect. (Not a dramatic effect - just a decline).
I promise you, had the CDR and harvest dates moved, it would have been THE ONLY reason for falling weights, year of the young declines, and hence giving tournament bass fishermen a real black eye. That's ol' positive Mojo's spin on this fiasco.
I agree, a change to year round CIR would be a huge step. It may also help to bring about more tournaments that are set up like MLF. The main drawback to MLF type tourneys is not being able to have a referee in every boat. I think there are ways around this. For example, make sure every boat has the same or similar scale in their boat on the day of the tourney, each boat gets an object or that day's newspaper and every fish caught or top 5-7 fish for each team must be videotaped with the object/newspaper while being weighed/measured. The anglers would be responsible for the scale & videotaping. If the length & weight of the fish couldn't be verified, then the fish doesn't count, no exceptions. With today's technology and the fact that practically everyone has a phone that can record a video. It would definitely help the fish because they could be released immediately & wouldn't have to be kept in the livewell all day. I think it would be easier & more efficient on the tournament directors too. Although it would be great to have year round CIR & delayed release for tourneys, there are ways to have tournaments without using livewells if year round CIR is passed, you just have to think outside the box.
I personally would not want to be at the mile roads on a Saturday or Sunday catching fish putting them in the livewell with other guys fishing, maybe having a beer or 2 that didn't know the rules about CDR.
It is sad they waited this long to form there group and oppose it. Maybe it was a planned response. Wait till the end and stir things up.
Guess we will just have to wait and see what they come up with.
Quote from: robhj on March 22, 2015, 03:29:37 PM
I agree, a change to year round CIR would be a huge step. It may also help to bring about more tournaments that are set up like MLF. The main drawback to MLF type tourneys is not being able to have a referee in every boat. I think there are ways around this. For example, make sure every boat has the same or similar scale in their boat on the day of the tourney, each boat gets an object or that day's newspaper and every fish caught or top 5-7 fish for each team must be videotaped with the object/newspaper while being weighed/measured. The anglers would be responsible for the scale & videotaping. If the length & weight of the fish couldn't be verified, then the fish doesn't count, no exceptions. With today's technology and the fact that practically everyone has a phone that can record a video. It would definitely help the fish because they could be released immediately & wouldn't have to be kept in the livewell all day. I think it would be easier & more efficient on the tournament directors too. Although it would be great to have year round CIR & delayed release for tourneys, there are ways to have tournaments without using livewells if year round CIR is passed, you just have to think outside the box.
Holy smokes - that is just a great idea ! There 'could' be video taped weigh at your own boat TXs too. Whereas before launch, everyone presents a standardized scale and everyone weighs a 1 and a 5 lb weight for calibration purposes. Those whose scales suck cant fish. You still write down your fish, but your vid the weigh and document it. Too many people do not like the paper tournament because the girth is not accounted for. I am one of them. But a vid cam, paper document and a CIR seems clear out of the box thinking while completely eliminating bed vacancy or dead fish during spawn.
Yes that is great idea, but who pays for it and where does the money come from.
I myself have a dumb phone cause i drop too many in lakes to spend 300+ on a phone .
The writers son suggested this iead at the meeting. The chairman said it is a great idea, which it is, butttttt again, all but impossible to implement and tthe cost.
IF they went that routh, catch and release only as a rule, with no C&K season, as he suggested state wide, that would lave guys like me out in the cold who DO enjoy keeping a few bass throughout the year as table fare.
Check out the AIM (walleye fishing)
There a CIR tournament trail. The Walleye chick at the fishing shows fishes that series
Quote from: TheFishinPollock on March 22, 2015, 04:18:16 PM
Yes that is great idea, but who pays for it and where does the money come from.
I myself have a dumb phone cause i drop too many in lakes to spend 300+ on a phone .
The writers son suggested this iead at the meeting. The chairman said it is a great idea, which it is, butttttt again, all but impossible to implement and tthe cost.
IF they went that routh, catch and release only as a rule, with no C&K season, as he suggested state wide, that would lave guys like me out in the cold who DO enjoy keeping a few bass throughout the year as table fare.
Your reading it all wrong
It's the same season and reg's as we have now for harvest
With no closed season it's CIR year round till the harvest or tournament season
Quote from: TheFishinPollock on March 22, 2015, 04:18:16 PM
Yes that is great idea, but who pays for it and where does the money come from.
I myself have a dumb phone cause i drop too many in lakes to spend 300+ on a phone .
The writers son suggested this iead at the meeting. The chairman said it is a great idea, which it is, butttttt again, all but impossible to implement and tthe cost.
IF they went that routh, catch and release only as a rule, with no C&K season, as he suggested state wide, that would lave guys like me out in the cold who DO enjoy keeping a few bass throughout the year as table fare.
The angler pays for or provides the scale that would meet the tourney director's specs, and the angler has to provide the video, either via phone or camcorder. If you don't have either then ask a friend to fish with you that has one and can record the fish weight & measurement. I personally would prefer this over standard tournament practices because it is healthier for the fish, you don't have to worry about fish care while they're in your livewell, and you don't have to worry about fish displacement when hundreds of fish every season get released at the same weigh-in area. The CIR tournament format would be awesome once we have CIR open season year round. You could even mix it up a bit and have a tourney where the total number of legal fish caught and weighed count for your totals. I looked into the MLF format but the one drawback was having a "referee" in the boat to count all your fish. This "referee" could be eliminated with phone or camcorder video proof. Everyone wins with this format because it's the healthiest for the fish and offers more angling opportunities.
Quote from: dartag on March 22, 2015, 08:09:17 AM
New article today about the bass season. Guess I am ok with CIR. I see some major conflicts on the water with tournaments. Where guys are keeping fish when others can't.
I live on a lake where guys are out the day the ice is out. I know " Pan Fishing ". At least this way they can say what they are fishing for.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/outdoors/2015/03/22/lydia-lohrer-fisheries-order-upended/25176389/
Just my .02
Let me say this about that...................I could live with Option 2 or Option 3. Perhaps Option 4 is too aggressive. Look what we have been living with for what seems like a lifetime. Look at our current weather right now. There is no open water as of yet. One could go fish a golf course pond or two if there was some open water there. But that's what you're dealing with right now. If we get ice out by Easter Sunday on any lakes we will be lucky. I'll probably be working on the boat and if I fish..........go to the golf course nearby. Just sayin'.
BD ;D
The only thing that no one wants to adress though in Michigan is that from say, Bay City north. We have had the keep season conciding with the spawn for over 40 + years. Trust me the fishing up here in any lake is doing just fine with this in place. There has been no "major fish kill off" what so ever.
I've been here for 25 years since I left the Detroit area. In those 25 years we have had an influx of people fishing, more tournments, more guides, more people in general fishing these waters. There has not been a single drop in numbers and or weights in that time that wasnt due to mother nature. What we have had is an increase in habitat work, water clarity and a ton of writeups and shows done up here . Especialy in my area of the state showing how good the fishing is.
To be honest . This is about downstate, spicificly St Clare. Which is a part of the great lakes system. Now there is no way guys with hook and line can destroy a fishery all by themselves that large. Water temps, natural cycles of prey will affect the fishign more than any of us can ever do. I would think that people would hae been excited at a gobie die off concidering they are an invasive species and shouldn't be here in the first place.
With regards to St Clare. Rember 2/3rds of that lake is in another countries posession. That leaves 30% of the lake on our side. I just can't see where having an earlyer season is going to " destroy" the lake . 70% of that lake would be " protected" and from everything I have ever heard and or read says the best fishing and spawning grounds are on the Canadian side.
Quote from: UAWBigDog on March 22, 2015, 06:42:17 PM
Quote from: dartag on March 22, 2015, 08:09:17 AM
New article today about the bass season. Guess I am ok with CIR. I see some major conflicts on the water with tournaments. Where guys are keeping fish when others can't.
I live on a lake where guys are out the day the ice is out. I know " Pan Fishing ". At least this way they can say what they are fishing for.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/outdoors/2015/03/22/lydia-lohrer-fisheries-order-upended/25176389/
Bill, Maybe Dan can explain why out of the 4 options they pushed for #4
I know at one time it was #3 or #4, Then just #4 and then the DNR came up with #4 plus the CDR
Any change will be welcomed on my end
Just my .02
Let me say this about that...................I could live with Option 2 or Option 3. Perhaps Option 4 is too aggressive. Look what we have been living with for what seems like a lifetime. Look at our current weather right now. There is no open water as of yet. One could go fish a golf course pond or two if there was some open water there. But that's what you're dealing with right now. If we get ice out by Easter Sunday on any lakes we will be lucky. I'll probably be working on the boat and if I fish..........go to the golf course nearby. Just sayin'.
BD ;D
Quote from: UAWBigDog on March 22, 2015, 06:42:17 PM
Quote from: dartag on March 22, 2015, 08:09:17 AM
New article today about the bass season. Guess I am ok with CIR. I see some major conflicts on the water with tournaments. Where guys are keeping fish when others can't.
I live on a lake where guys are out the day the ice is out. I know " Pan Fishing ". At least this way they can say what they are fishing for.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/outdoors/2015/03/22/lydia-lohrer-fisheries-order-upended/25176389/
Just my .02
Let me say this about that...................I could live with Option 2 or Option 3. Perhaps Option 4 is too aggressive. Look what we have been living with for what seems like a lifetime. Look at our current weather right now. There is no open water as of yet. One could go fish a golf course pond or two if there was some open water there. But that's what you're dealing with right now. If we get ice out by Easter Sunday on any lakes we will be lucky. I'll probably be working on the boat and if I fish..........go to the golf course nearby. Just sayin'.
BD ;D
I would agree with you. I thought it was a bit too aggressive but maybe the fight for a season change needed to be a bit aggressive to at least get the catch and release season extended.
As far as the open water goes, I live near Midland and the rivers are pretty open now and because of how slow the melt has happened they aren't very high and look pretty fishable. At least trying from shore would be an option or even floating downriver in my kayak.
Go pro club tourneys are gonna be a real thing in the future!
It's all a negotiation. You ask for the "world" and hope you get something you can live with. Human nature makes people panic when there are 4 choices and the one supported by the major outdoor organizations is the most aggressive, the people get up in arms about it. Then arguments get to be based on emotion rather than good common sense thinking and above all science. The writer of such articles wrote two. The first one was based on emotion with no science to back it up. Then the writer did their homework and found other things to be true.......or false. From where I come from, we call that "back pedaling". That's how you lose credibility. That writer has no credibility because "Which is it?? Your first article or your second??" ??? Just sayin'.
BD. ;D
Why do we have to change how we do things when the real science out there does not show it is necessary. People like bringing in fish and seeing fish. There's nothing wrong with that. The groups that don't mind doing it otherwise are more than welcome to do it another way but everyone doesn't need to expect everyone else to think and act exactly the same. That is ridiculously unrealistic.
Bass populations fluctuate normally all the time. How good or bad it is is usually relative to the anglers whose opinion is that it is better or worse. Our bass fishing has been fantastic for a good 20 years now DESPITE more bass fishing opportunity because our regulations have nothing to do with how good or bad our bass fishing is. Maybe the 14 inch size limit helped though there is no proof of that actually.
Most real scientists who actually know something about modern bass biology and bass research that is readily available if you actually open your eyes to it give the credit to improving water quality and the catch-and-release ethic instilled by bass tournament anglers - the same 'evil' anglers you can't trust as a reliable source for anything according to one outdoor editorialist. Does that mean you can't trust that the catch-and-release ethic THEY created can't be trusted...?? Yeah. Right.
We want true scientific management not social 'management' or popularity contests. I can't believe anyone intelligent would fall for the emotional nonsense that came out before and during the latest NRC meeting, but it did, and it worked. Another sad day for scientific management. And kind of scary to know that kind of tactic can still work because it IS the same tactics groups like H$U$ use to try to take away our hunting and fishing rights, just as this small, elitist group has removed my fishing opportunity you and I could have. It is no different regardless of who is taking it away.
It's a sad day for fishing too that this was done in a way that has pitted angler against angler... sad. I'm not ashamed of anything I have said or done but if I had pulled some of the stuff the other side has I would know it's wrong, and I would be ashamed of myself. I don't think they have the scruples to be ashamed though. They have had no problem smearing my character all over the place.
Dan, I applaud everything you and others have done. I completely support option 4, however, a year round CIR would be a huge step forward. I fish tournaments and like watching the weigh-ins too, but I don't think there is anything wrong with looking at alternative ways to run a tournament, especially when other ways may be more beneficial to the health of the fish. I've pulled bass off of beds, and I've also had the occasional bass die in my livewell and I would bet that close to 100% of tournament anglers have done the same. Is bass fishing on the majority of waters in Michigan great despite this? I would say yes. Could the health of the fish be improved and even the perception of bass tournaments be improved by running an MLF, CIR-type tournament? I would also say yes. i am looking forward to this tournament season and participating in the traditional tourney format, but I don't think it is wrong for us to look at other ways to run tournaments, especially when it is healthier for the fish. If the year round CIR season gets approved, tournament anglers everywhere will have to look for other ways or just wait until the season opens that allows you to give bass a ride in your livewell for the day. We might as well start thinking about alternatives now. That was my point.
I understand your point. I'm hearing a lot more than just that about how WE need to change to make everyone else happy. So I'm replying to that. Please don't take it that personal. I can't even tell you how many people I've heard from just lately and all the opinions I've heard.
There were several people at the meeting Thursday who tried or wanted to tell me what my/our 'problems' are... I'm sensitive right now :)
The changes you and others discuss are already happening on their own. I believe our bass resource can handle the continued change at it's own pace that is already occurring. I also know firsthand what happens when someone tries to make someone else change too fast. I'm getting it bad from one side already. And getting it a little from our side. I don't really relish getting it equally from both sides and I know our resource can handle the extra fishing pressure so I'm not going to tell tournament anglers to change now. Anyone else is always welcome to do so. Just not me.
I'm going to continue, for now, to work to change the non-scientific and biased way other people think because I think that will be better for fishing and anglers in the long run, and I don't mind as much getting it from those kind of people. I will get it from them anyway just because of the way they think when they see me in my bass boat...
I like most fair and decent anglers, and I like most anglers I've met who fish bass tournament. They've been getting the shaft in Michigan and some other Northern states for a long time due primarily to prejudice, and the prejudice has been allowed to be okay. I'd like to fix that if I can help to do so.
Well put Dan. I think it is important that tournament trails look at other options for their tournaments, but reality is the technology isn't readily available or cost effective for smaller organizations to go with a Major League Fishing format. I do think that some tournaments will go that route in the future, but the reality is the live weigh-ins are a big part of sport. Its what people want to see. Its how sponsors get seen. And most importantly, its often times what draws people to become interested in trying bass fishing for the first time. This is why it is vital that Michigan becomes more friendly for tournaments which includes an extended season. As a State, we need to capitalize on the opportunities that we have to grow peoples interest in fishing while boosting the economy at the same time.
There are people who are going to continue to fight ANY additional bass tournament opportunity, probably until the MDNR fully embraces bass tournaments as 'not evil.' I remember telling the Alabama fisheries chief how much I wanted to live in his world where his department SPONSORS bass tournaments as a great way to enhance fishing in Alabama. That's why it is so upsetting to me to hear other bass tournament anglers endorsing total... bull excrement-like statements that we kill 50% of our bass. I don't know how ANY real bass angler could support a slanderous statement like that. Disgusting and not true except in the most extreme, rare, small, local cases, especially in Michigan where our lower water temps make it a lot easier to keep bass alive.
I love it when I hear someone say at a weigh in "I'm going to give bass fishing a try!" That sure doesn't sound evil to me... The federations exist to preserve and promote bass fishing as a sport, and bass tournaments serve both purposes in multiple ways with minimal negative impact on our bass considering how many bass actually survive to be caught again.
After reading everything I can about the subject it boggles my mind how there is such a fight put up against changing the bass season. I have really only been into bass fishing for 3 seasons now so I have a newbie point of view. What gets me is that living right next to Lake St. Clair I can't even find people around me who want to fish for bass. Family, friends, family of friends, nobody! All I hear is why do you bass fish when you can catch walleye or perch or musky? It took finding this site and forum to actually talk to someone who bass fishes. So I'm surprised with all the opposition. After going to the weigh-ins when Chris Lane won the event in 2013 and really seeing what it's all about only made me more excited to dive headfirst into it. Even though I'm not a tournament angler I applaud all the work you guys are doing for the sport. Like I said, going to that weigh-in and feeling the excitement put me all in. I can only think it did the same thing for others and more tournaments would drum up more interest and economic impact.
Myself, I like tournament fishing as much as anyone. That being said, do I think catch and kill or delayed release is going to improve the fishery, of course not. Any time you destroy a nest cannot be good. Will it ruin the fishery, no way! There are so many fish out there in such a vast area, the lakes will be fine. With the little amount of tournament participation we get, you got to be kidding me. Look at the amount of people that signed all the petitions on both sides of the argument, you might have 3000 signatures between the two. That's nothing when you consider all the lakes and fish and the number of anglers in this state. There are probably more lakes in this state than there are signatures on all proposals both for and against.
Anyway, my 2 cents are this is a huge step forward/victory for the bass fishing community. There was absolutely no reason to not be able to catch and instantly release any fish year round in this state. Way to go on getting Catch and Instant Release in Michigan! Dan you will go down in the history books for making happen what every Michigan bass angler dreamed of.
Quote from: Jefferson on March 23, 2015, 09:19:10 PM
After reading everything I can about the subject it boggles my mind how there is such a fight put up against changing the bass season. I have really only been into bass fishing for 3 seasons now so I have a newbie point of view. What gets me is that living right next to Lake St. Clair I can't even find people around me who want to fish for bass. Family, friends, family of friends, nobody! All I hear is why do you bass fish when you can catch walleye or perch or musky? It took finding this site and forum to actually talk to someone who bass fishes. So I'm surprised with all the opposition. After going to the weigh-ins when Chris Lane won the event in 2013 and really seeing what it's all about only made me more excited to dive headfirst into it. Even though I'm not a tournament angler I applaud all the work you guys are doing for the sport. Like I said, going to that weigh-in and feeling the excitement put me all in. I can only think it did the same thing for others and more tournaments would drum up more interest and economic impact.
This is exactly what I was talking about in my earlier post. First of all, welcome to the bass fishing family. You will find we are a good group that works just as hard to promote and protect bass as we do fishing for them. I too and someone who lives close to Lake St. Clair and know exactly what you mean about people being baffled why you fish for bass. Last spring the weather drove me off the main lake and I was fishing in a canal near 9 mile. I had a homeowner come out and strike up a conversation while I was fishing. He was a nice enough guy, but he said more than once..."I can't figure out why you are back here fishing for bass when there is a world class walleye run happening in the Detroit River." I simple said, " it's because this is what I want to fish for." All he said back was..."I just don't get it."
You point of watching Chris Lane at the 2013 Elite Series event on St. Clair is spot on. The weigh-ins bring so much excitement and appeal to sport, I can only imagine how many people have started bass fishing after attending a BASS or FLW weigh in.
We exist to preserve and promote bass fishing. Bass are the number 3 fish in popularity behind perch and walleye on Lake St. Clair according to the latest numbers I have seen. I don't mind catching perch or walleye but I fish for bass a lot more.
The last numbers from the MDNR show 70% of Michigan anglers now identify as bass anglers. Some people on Lake St. Clair may not realize bass are that popular because they are the exception rather than the rule. Because St. Clair is so popular a fishery for many kinds of anglers I hope we can continue to increase the quality of public access sites such as 9 Mile, St. Jeans and maybe a new top quality facility on Belle Isle State Park in the future.
And, of course, for the betterment of bass fishing and fishing throughout Michigan I will keep working to help acquire more public access to more of our public waters like Eagle Lake. Giving people access to fishing waters is one of the top, significant factors in getting and keeping people into fishing.