Got this email... might be a good forum to be vocal about the need for an open season. Nice article in Michigan Outdoor news Mr. Kimmel!
Conversations & Coffee with DNR Fisheries Division
Are you interested in meeting with fisheries managers and biologists to discuss local issues and management activities? Do you have specific questions you'd like answered about Michigan's fisheries?Conversations and coffee with DNR Fisheries Division
Come to one of our 11 "Conversations & Coffee with DNR Fisheries Division" forums scheduled throughout the state this March and April. They will be held in each of our eight management units that oversee the state's fisheries.
These informal forums will also make information available on local and statewide regulations impacting anglers. Refreshments will be provided.
Meeting dates, times and locations include:
• Tuesday, March 18 from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. at the Bay City State Recreation Area Visitors' Center located at 3582 State Park Drive in Bay City, hosted by the Southern Lake Huron Management Unit.
• Wednesday, March 19 from 6:00 to 7:30 p.m. at the Carl T. Johnson Hunting & Fishing Center located at 6087 E. M-115 in Cadillac, hosted by the Central Lake Michigan Management Unit.
• Thursday, March 20 from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. at the Waterford Fisheries Station located at 7806 Gale Road in Waterford, hosted by the Lake Erie Management Unit.
• Thursday, March 20 from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. at the DNR Pocket Park (U.P. State Fair Grounds) located at 2401 12th Avenue North in Escanaba, hosted by the Northern Lake Michigan Management Unit.
• Thursday, March 27 from 6:30 to 7:30 p.m. at the D&R Sports Center located at 8178 West Main Street in Kalamazoo, hosted by the Southern Lake Michigan Management Unit.
• Tuesday, April 8 from 7:00 to 8:30 p.m. at the Tahquamenon Area Public Library located at 700 Newberry Avenue in Newberry, hosted by the Eastern Lake Superior Management Unit.
• Wednesday, April 9 from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. at the Ishpeming Township Hall located at 1575 U.S. 41 in Ishpeming, hosted by the Western Lake Superior Management Unit.
• Thursday, April 10 from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. (CST) at the Gogebic Community College located at E. 4946 Jackson Road in Ironwood, hosted by the Western Lake Superior Management Unit.
• Monday, April 14 from 7:00 to 8:30 p.m. at Sydney's Restaurant located at 400 Cedar Street in Munising, hosted by the Eastern Lake Superior Management Unit.
• Wednesday, April 16 from 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. at the Portage Lake District Library located at 58 Huron Street in Houghton, hosted by the Western Lake Superior Management Unit.
• Wednesday, April 16 from 7:00 to 8:00 p.m. at the Northland Sportsmen's Club located at 1592 Old Alba Road in Gaylord, hosted by the Northern Lake Huron Management Unit.
i would go to the Waterford one if i could, and i don't even like coffee
A guy from work askes a couple times a week if I am going. It is a 4 mile drive. Maybe I will wander up there. Anyone else going
I might head down to the one at D&R, if my schedule permits. Anyone who can make it should as sometimes I think we need more "squeaky wheels" who are bass fishermen to offset the stock'em/catch'em/keep'em crowd.
I think I can be at the Waterford one. I certainly will try.
I'm going to the one in Bay City tonight. Be interested to see what they have to say.
Nice of them to have most of them in the U.P.
Thanks for posting this! It has been on my todo list for days! Thanks for the nice comment about the article. It was taken from a cleaned up and fleshed out version of my February public comments to the Natural Resources Commission.
I was thinking they were having one per the latest MDNR region offices (http://michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366_10389_39013-21107--,00.html). Looking at it with more than a glance I see they have combined a number of regions in the Lower Peninsula. It's always weird for me, living in Lansing, that they rarely have these types of meeting IN Lansing. I can't make any this week due to the Ultimate Sport Show, but I am looking at the one on March 27 at D & R Sports Center (http://www.dandrsports.com/).
LITERALLY, the squeaky wheel is getting the grease now more than ever. We need to take advantage of these kinds of opportunities and make our voices heard. Change is hard for people so YOU need to squeak loud enough to overcome that. Please go to one of these meetings. The extra time you use to do so will be paid back in future (soon?) improvements!
If you always bought the $15 Michigan fishing license in the past, you are now paying $11 more to do the SAME thing. Make sure you take every opportunity to tell the MDNR that you want MORE opportunity for paying more! Don't let any of them tell you they do as much for bass as they do other fish. You can always ask them for specific examples if they push that line.
Bass don't need as much 'help' as the other fisheries in the obvious ways such as large, expensive stocking programs, but there are local lake issues like habitat / aquatic plants, AND they can definitely make bass fishing more enjoyable for all of us by giving us a year-round bass season.
DO SOME SQUEAKING WHERE IT COUNTS! :)
I think this is new and may be very helpful to anyone who needs to contact the MDNR for something: http://michigan.gov/documents/dnr/DNR_customer_service_guide_407568_7.pdf
Quote from: bob o on March 17, 2014, 04:24:12 PM
i would go to the Waterford one if i could, and i don't even like coffee
If you can go, please go!
Quote from: dartag on March 17, 2014, 05:55:03 PM
A guy from work askes a couple times a week if I am going. It is a 4 mile drive. Maybe I will wander up there. Anyone else going
Sounds like a smart guy! It will help if you go and tell them what you want.
Quote from: Slipkey on March 17, 2014, 06:33:55 PM
I might head down to the one at D&R, if my schedule permits. Anyone who can make it should as sometimes I think we need more "squeaky wheels" who are bass fishermen to offset the stock'em/catch'em/keep'em crowd.
I hope you can go. I have this one in my calendar. Updating my calendar today to make sure I don't have a scheduling conflict.
Quote from: mikesmiph on March 17, 2014, 07:18:43 PM
I think I can be at the Waterford one. I certainly will try.
Hope you can go too. You know how to talk. We need some people to do some talking. Tell them what YOU want! :)
Quote from: kram1982 on March 18, 2014, 12:35:52 PM
I'm going to the one in Bay City tonight. Be interested to see what they have to say.
I like your attitude. Make sure you tell them what YOU have to say. That's really what these are about!
Quote from: Team houston on March 18, 2014, 12:43:02 PM
Nice of them to have most of them in the U.P.
The UP is spread out and remote. I think that is why they haven't combined more of them. I hope people can actually safely get around up there by that time. I wish we had one to three more in the Lower Peninsula but this is a start. Hope you can go to one of them.
I am going to make every effort to hit the one at D & R in Kalamazoo. I finally get to voice my opinion about the drop shot laws! LOL!!
I'm going to start composing my speech now. ;)
That is a GREAT idea!!! With the MDNR saying they're going to the 2-year Fishing Guide cycle it means things may take even longer to change.
I suggest you consider asking for information that supports the need for this restriction:
- How many tickets are written for long-line snagging, or anything other gear?
- Where exactly are significant numbers of violations written at - what water body, what part(s) of the water body (localized? or spread out over a wide area?)?
- Go to the list of drowned river mouth lakes and note them all. Compare each of the listed lakes to any reports of violations in the actual lake(s) to see if ALL of the lakes really need to be on the restrictive list?
- If you are told they don't have some of the above information, ask to hear from each of the local Conservation Officers directly to ask them the same questions? They should be able to provide some type of idea about the significance of the 'problem?'
A couple other ideas:
1) you can also consider talking about limiting the restrictions on rivers to specific stretches or locations if and when the problem appears to be limited to near the big lake, or a popular stretch between bridges or other defined area, or below certain dams. The MDNR has done exactly this type of limited impact regulation for other issues or problems in the past. They could do it here too maybe.
2) If you are told something along the lines of how this restriction is not a big deal, or not too much to ask anglers to comply with to 'help' make law enforcement easier and/or possible, my credo is always the same - we shouldn't be punishing the vast majority of the good persons because of a small number of bad ones. I go to meetings where at least one MDNR CO has publicly stated he doesn't expect us to pass regulations or limit opportunity just to make his job easier.
Snagging is illegal. If you aren't snagging and you're using a lure with hooks you should be able to enjoy your fishing using popular techniques that pretty much the whole rest of the known free world is able to. Michigan needs to be a true leader in opportunity and enjoyment of the outdoors - making Michigan a very welcome, safe and easy place for people to fish in! Lets get rid of any restriction that isn't really needed. I know I personally want to make Michigan 'the opportunity state.'
Quote from: djkimmel on March 18, 2014, 01:13:00 PM
Quote from: dartag on March 17, 2014, 05:55:03 PM
A guy from work askes a couple times a week if I am going. It is a 4 mile drive. Maybe I will wander up there. Anyone else going
Sounds like a smart guy! It will help if you go and tell them what you want.
I showed him your reply, told him you are a famous web master.. He smiled and said Are you going? Peer pressure I tell ya. I will report back on Friday.
Just got back from the Bay City meeting, all I have to say is wow! Only bass angler that was there, well that would admit it anyways. It was all about walleye and yellow perch and a little lake trout and invasive species.
I specifically asked about opening the bass season year round, and if not open year round having year round catch and release. I got two different answers to this question, the first was that they had an issue with this because they are worried they can't control/enforce the walleye anglers who would be "fishing for bass" and keeping walleye illegally. I responded to this by saying how is this fair to bass anglers who are doing the right thing using catch and release by punishing bass anglers because they can't trust the few people who are going to catch and keep walleye illegally. I also said it's important to increase fishing opportunity for bass anglers and by potentially adding a month or month and a half when the ice is off would increase the amount of time spent on the water. The response to that was that bass anglers have until the end of December to fish for bass and they feel that is a lot of time already, they also said that they think catch and release fishing has harmed bass populations and reproduction in the spring. I was almost laughing by this point, couldn't believe what I was hearing. I asked how catch and release fishing for bass in March and April is harming the bass populations when a lot of bass aren't even spawning until mid to late May and into all of June. Last year at my opening tournament on Lobdell Lake the fish were still in pre-spawn patterns Memorial Day weekend. I'm sure some were spawning but not many yet. The Burt and Mullet BFL was a spawn tournament with tons of fish being caught off beds and when I was up there again in late June there were still a few smallmouth bass sitting on beds.
They didn't have an answer for me to that question and I was pretty disappointed in the answer about them being worried about walleye poaching enforcement in regards to having year round catch and release season for bass. I feel like this shouldn't be anything to do with bass fishing. Overall I think I figured out there isn't much love for bass anglers and it's all about walleye and other traditional eating fish in this state.
I also asked about what they were doing about the additional money they were bringing in from in from eliminating the restricted fishing license and all I got was the company line of checking the DNR Website and all the information is listed there. So not much of an answer there either. :-\'
I am extremely blown away by what I heard, especially about the worries about walleye poaching during a possible early bass catch and release season. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised after reading some of the information that Dan has posted here. It is going to be hard to change minds in this state, especially since I was the only bass angler who was there out of about 12 people. If anyone else has a chance to attend any other meetings please get out there and go! We need more bass anglers standing up for our own out there!
Nice report, thanks for attending.
Quote from: dartag on March 18, 2014, 05:04:56 PM
Quote from: djkimmel on March 18, 2014, 01:13:00 PM
Quote from: dartag on March 17, 2014, 05:55:03 PM
A guy from work askes a couple times a week if I am going. It is a 4 mile drive. Maybe I will wander up there. Anyone else going
Sounds like a smart guy! It will help if you go and tell them what you want.
I showed him your reply, told him you are a famous web master.. He smiled and said Are you going? Peer pressure I tell ya. I will report back on Friday.
I like this guy. We should meet! ;D
Quote from: kram1982 on March 18, 2014, 09:55:28 PM
Just got back from the Bay City meeting, all I have to say is wow! Only bass angler that was there, well that would admit it anyways. It was all about walleye and yellow perch and a little lake trout and invasive species.
I specifically asked about opening the bass season year round, and if not open year round having year round catch and release. I got two different answers to this question, the first was that they had an issue with this because they are worried they can't control/enforce the walleye anglers who would be "fishing for bass" and keeping walleye illegally. I responded to this by saying how is this fair to bass anglers who are doing the right thing using catch and release by punishing bass anglers because they can't trust the few people who are going to catch and keep walleye illegally. I also said it's important to increase fishing opportunity for bass anglers and by potentially adding a month or month and a half when the ice is off would increase the amount of time spent on the water. The response to that was that bass anglers have until the end of December to fish for bass and they feel that is a lot of time already, they also said that they think catch and release fishing has harmed bass populations and reproduction in the spring. I was almost laughing by this point, couldn't believe what I was hearing. I asked how catch and release fishing for bass in March and April is harming the bass populations when a lot of bass aren't even spawning until mid to late May and into all of June. Last year at my opening tournament on Lobdell Lake the fish were still in pre-spawn patterns Memorial Day weekend. I'm sure some were spawning but not many yet. The Burt and Mullet BFL was a spawn tournament with tons of fish being caught off beds and when I was up there again in late June there were still a few smallmouth bass sitting on beds.
They didn't have an answer for me to that question and I was pretty disappointed in the answer about them being worried about walleye poaching enforcement in regards to having year round catch and release season for bass. I feel like this shouldn't be anything to do with bass fishing. Overall I think I figured out there isn't much love for bass anglers and it's all about walleye and other traditional eating fish in this state.
I also asked about what they were doing about the additional money they were bringing in from in from eliminating the restricted fishing license and all I got was the company line of checking the DNR Website and all the information is listed there. So not much of an answer there either. :-\'
I am extremely blown away by what I heard, especially about the worries about walleye poaching during a possible early bass catch and release season. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised after reading some of the information that Dan has posted here. It is going to be hard to change minds in this state, especially since I was the only bass angler who was there out of about 12 people. If anyone else has a chance to attend any other meetings please get out there and go! We need more bass anglers standing up for our own out there!
You've hit many nails on the head. First of all THANKS FOR GOING!!!!!!
We bass anglers are notorious for not going. For not participating when we have a chance. You've taken critical step number one! And by reporting back as you have you've let some other bass anglers know WHY we are having a more difficult time than we should. WE HAVE TO BE THE SQUEAKY WHEEL!! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!
Next, it appears a few old-schoolers scattered in the MDNR Fisheries Division seem to be falling back on claims that fishing during the bass spawn 'may' be harming our bass. Those studies do not exist. Those claims also ignore the obvious that our bass season was designed to TAKE ADVANTAGE of the bass spawn when they moved the bass opener earlier to a holiday weekend way back in 1970 - 44 years ago. We would have known a long time ago if we were going to harm our bass populations.
There's no scientific correlation to better bass fishing due to any regulation they've passed for bass. The only possible fishing regulation is the 1993 and 1995 increase in the size limit to 14" for bass on inland lakes and the Great Lakes. And bass fishing was already improving a number of years before that. Bass fishing did not clearly improve or worsen over time on a large scale level from 1970 until the late 1980s long after the 1970 season change.
Lake St. Clair has had essentially the same special bass season since about 1904. Bass fishing exploded out there in the late 1980s when no regulation changes where made. It was because of all the same factors we can't control through fishing regulations - clearer, cleaner water (zebra/quagga mussels, Clean Water Act) and new, abundant food source (gobies) - things like that. The same explosion has occurred on Northern inland lakes AND many other parts of the Great Lakes despite many of those waters having the bass spawn AFTER the 1970-made Memorial weekend regular opener.
These few other 'biologist' latest fallback is the 'protect the walleye (and pike and muskie and sometimes trout)' argument or as you pointed out and I call it - the punish the majority of the good anglers because of an unknown, unquantified number of potential bad anglers that may or may not exist who supposedly will poach walleye.
My arguments against that are similar to yours PLUS walleye (and pike and some trout and salmon) can be fish year-round in much of the Great Lakes so there goes that argument for bass on the Great Lakes. Next, there are approximately 11,000 inland lakes in Michigan. There are only a little over 300 listed on the MDNR website as better walleye lakes. There are only about 400 listed for better pike. There are only 50-60 inland waters with muskie in them at all (and some of those are put-and-take fisheries with no expectation of recruitment from any spawn so why 'protect' the muskie at all - let people go fishing) and the trout and salmon waters that need protection already have special regulations on them.
You won't be stopping poaching on the Great Lakes where the largest numbers of anglers fish because there is no closed season so no argument of a need to keep bass closed there. It seems extremely unwise use of our natural resources to close 11,000 inland lakes and 30,000+ miles of rivers to stop 'walleye poachers' who will only actually even have the chance to poach on less than 3% of those waters.
That would close 97% of our inland waters to fishing to protect a species that doesn't even exist at all in them, or in a few cases, in numbers high enough to be regularly targeted. What a waste of fishing and Natural Resources economy opportunity. Bass are in most lakes in Michigan. Pike, walleye, trout, salmon and muskie are not. We shouldn't close large numbers of inland waters in the name of simplification or any other trumped up claims to protect fish no one or almost no one is targeting in those lakes.
Bass are part of the panfish family. They are prolific spawners. Bass are generally not a harvest fish. Bass anglers VOLUNTARILY release 80-92% of their keeper-sized bass, and you can fish on almost all inland and Great Lakes waters legally for other panfish ALL YEAR.
Those few lakes where claims are made that some other fish needs protection special regulations already exist to shorten those lakes fishing seasons or close them to all fishing. Meanwhile, the many other thousands of lakes sit underfished, or create an artificial, unnecessary atmosphere of intra-angler conflict or enforcement confusion due to other people and COs trying to guess or mind read what type of fish an angler is trying to catch while we are struggling through a sluggish economy with difficulty retaining anglers and recruiting new anglers.
We have to help the few people stuck in the past understand the necessity of creating an opportunity-based management present and future rather than the restriction heavy way of thinking that has gone on far too long.
My methods of late have been to work mostly from the top down and with like-minded, big-picture people and groups because people who want to spread falsehoods about bass data that isn't there and/or just don't like or appreciate the 589,000 resident and nonresident bass anglers (or any subset of them) are people I don't want to waste time arguing with. I will however continue to put pressure on them to stop spreading falsehoods by making them use specific proofs in public anytime they make claims such as what you were told about 'data' that does not exist. I feel if they are willing to make stuff up I'm willing to call them on it.
I've edited my response to add in new information from the state senate Outdoor Recreation and Tourism committee hearing where Senate bill SB 869 was passed unanimously out to the senate floor with full support of the MUCC AND the MDNR. MDNR legislative liaison Trevor VanDyke testified that the MDNR fully supports this bill to strip all bass season limits out of state law because recent studies have shown bass fishing during the spawn is not harmful to bass, and that we can have a longer bass, that more bass fishing opportunity including tournaments is good for our Natural Resources economy.
I will be trying to get a transcript of of the testimony to get exact quotes but this is the first time I have heard the MDNR go on public record stating the above, and that they support a longer bass season. Fisheries Division chief Jim Dexter was sitting next to Trevor and said he had nothing extra to add or change about the official MDNR statement.
Any MDNR fisheries biologist who states they have evidence of harm appears to be going against department policy, and as I stated above, I will ask all of you, and I will ask myself, that they provide scientific, publicly available published data to back up these types of claims. I am forwarding a copy of your particular report from this Bay City meeting to Fisheries Division chief Jim Dexter at his request. I hope that accomplishes something in helping getting everyone on the same page. Jim told me the message is supposed to be that Fisheries Division has a request for a longer bass season and they are reviewing that request internally - something to that effect.
I believe we will have a longer bass season next year though I do not know the exact shape it will take yet. I also hope that the result of this 30+ year process is not an end result but the beginning of fostering the new open and more transparent MDNR into the position of being a leader in fishing opportunity thinking for all 'types' of anglers equally.
I hope the general practice is to always be honest with anglers even when the answers aren't the easy answers. I hope we continue to reduce fishing restrictions ridding ourselves of all regulations that punish the majority of the good anglers because of a possible minority of bad persons, and that cause unnecessary intra-angler conflicts and things like 'guilty by bass boat' so all anglers can go out fishing whenever they can without the hassle of wondering if they will get targeted by assumption just because they own a certain type of boat or use a certain type of lure.
If any fish is legal to fish for on a body of water, it is most often impractical to start trying to limit anglers to only fishing certain species but not others considering so many fish can be caught with the same methods even in the same places. I believe the only two options we have are:
1) Close a water to ALL fishing - this should only be used when sound science supports and proves the need;
2) Allow all fishing on any open water and clarify which types of fish you can keep during which part of the year verses fish you have to release as soon as you catch them.
I would love to see the possibility of exceptions for catch-and-delayed-release permits or options to allow tournaments (bass, walleye, muskie, salmon, whatever) if science supports a non-creel season but catch-and-release fishing would still be safe while still allowing additional opportunity and adding to our critical Natural Resources economy. Right now, this leads to some anglers and/or some people getting upset that someone is getting 'special' or preferential treatment. I'm not sure how many people this is really a problem for when it gets right down to it, but it is important to be aware of and consider this type of thing.
As it has happened twice before with the 1988 test season and the 2006 catch-and-release season, I believe a few years after we get our new, longer bass season in 2015, the few people left who claim things about harm will once again find out our bass fishing is still fine, reducing their noise that much more moving us closer to common sense opportunity based on truth and science which I also believe will help with our issues with angler recruitment and retention.
We are now all paying $11 more to do the same thing we did last year so it is perfectly okay, and YOU SHOULD ALL TAKE THE TIME TO DO THIS, to go to these meetings and voice your opinion. You can also call the MDNR. You can send email. You can mail letters. Make it clear you expect the same time, thought and respect that they give to any other fish in exchange for your support of the new license fee package and your large impact on our fishing management budget.
We bass angles are 589,000 strong. That's the second highest number only behind the number of panfish anglers, and we fish more days than ANY other type of angler. A HUGE chunk of the annual ~$2 BILLION in the Michigan fishing natural resource economy comes from bass anglers - our licenses and fees are a BIG chunk of the MDNR Fisheries Division budget (PS: the new license fees do not automatically continue forever - it has to be renewed in 5 years - remember that).
They put millions into raising and planting the harvest fishes like walleye, pike, trout and salmon. While those are also very important fisheries, we deserve more attention and effort from them than we generally get. Though they don't need to stock bass hardly ever they can definitely help bass anglers, our Natural Resources economy and their management budget with a year-round season, and by looking at some local issues with lakes that need habitat improvement/fixes or other assistance to manage and/or improve those bass populations.
It would make a difference if more of us take the time to make sure our voices are heard. Bass fishing of all types is a significantly positive impact on our Natural Resources economy and their fish management budget. We bass anglers do deserve our fair share of their time and consideration so keep asking for it please.