Was out on lake oakland today and heard a loud engine coming around the corner. Here comes a big air boat spraying some sort of chemical in the lake. Guy on the front had a full suit and face mask on. Guy driving had no mask and was smoking a cigarette. What ever it was they were spraying sure did smell bad. Later they were shooting some sort of pellets out of a big spreader on the front of the boat. Guess we won't have to worry about weeds next week.
That's terrible news........ :'(
>:(
BD. ;D
Sounds like a top notch operation. The pellets might have been copper sulfate. Could have also been some type of weeds nuclear winter approach... I imagine there are people in Oakland County that are all in for the turn a lake into a swimming pool approach that usually doesn't work for anyone (well... except the companies that sell and apply the weed death stuff - they make out well usually).
The Lake Oakland Association probably showed up with a big bag of $$$ and gave it to the DNR and said "Is this enough to make this place a desert??". And the DNR saw dollar signs in their eyes because they have to agree to the weed kill and said "Sure, just let us tale all those greenbacks off your hands for you." So at Lake Oakland you will see no green weeds or greenbacks for that matter.
So if that happened there, then what I have been told about the DNR regulating weed kills is false. Unless, the Lake Oakland Association did the weed kill illegally.
BD. ;D
They put the yellow signs up everywhere telling the residents about the spraying. I didn't read them but they had boxes checked on what they were spraying. I think the company was Michigan Aquatic Weed Control. They had 3 boats and a weed chopper. I have seen the signs on Wolvarine and Ceader Island this summer. City people don't like weeds.
Make me appreciate my clean clear lake with very few weeds.
On happy note i did catch some nice fish. Saw the Snoopy blimp headed to the senior open at Lake Orion. The guy who lives on the lake with the jet helicopter came in and picked up some kids for a ride.
fantastic...
we fished the lake Wen. night
More then a few 4#'s were caught and I thought the lake looked OK, there's still allot of weed beds missing from the weed kill from last year
Now the funny part is
Weed kills kills do shut down the fishing
And there's a NBAA motor city challenge today out there and on Mon night Div 40 which has been drawing 30 plus boats this year fishs out there
Good luck
Quote from: UAWBigDog on July 13, 2012, 08:23:00 AM
The Lake Oakland Association probably showed up with a big bag of $$$ and gave it to the DNR and said "Is this enough to make this place a desert??". And the DNR saw dollar signs in their eyes because they have to agree to the weed kill and said "Sure, just let us tale all those greenbacks off your hands for you." So at Lake Oakland you will see no green weeds or greenbacks for that matter.
So if that happened there, then what I have been told about the DNR regulating weed kills is false. Unless, the Lake Oakland Association did the weed kill illegally.
BD. ;D
BD - you've got some stuff wrong above. The Michigan Department of Natural Resources (MDNR) (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/) does not regulate or permit 'aquatic plant control' permits. The Michigan Department of 'Environmental Quality' (MDEQ) (http://www.michigan.gov/deq/) (usually the Water Resources Division) has all the oversight on inland lakes and streams permitting and wetlands permitting - along with the US Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) in the when project falls under the MDEQ/USACE Joint Permit Application (http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,1607,7-135-3307_29692_24403---,00.html) (MDEQ/USACE JPA) process (wetlands, the Great Lakes and other interface areas). I have been told that the MDNR is sometimes consulted and/or provides input and approval (http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,4561,7-135-3313_3681_3710-65857--,00.html) to some parts of the process. It is not easy to keep up with anymore.
Governor Snyder's very first executive order (http://michigan.gov/snyder/0,1607,7-277-57577_57657-248895--,00.html) signed as the new governor of Michigan split the MDNRE back into two departments again in January 2011 taking the MDNR back out of the permitting processes.
Here is how I now keep track of the 'who has jurisdiction' part of this ever-changing landscape - Republican governor = separate MDNR and MDEQ; Democratic governor = one MDNR (or MDNRE if you like). We'll see if this works all the time the next time we get a Democrat in the office if they merge them back... ;D Can you imagine every 4 to 8 years having your whole department split and merged, split and merged...?
So, the MDNR that we deal with the most is not involved as the lead in the permits for aquatic plant control. They don't get any money. The MDEQ does require permits for some treatments (http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,4561,7-135-3313_3681_3710---,00.html). Fees are from something like $50 to $1,500 (for treatments over 100 acres). The money goes to the MDEQ. I don't know that the MDNR gets any part of that. Not that I'm aware of. While many of the general permit streamlined processes are not real involved and can be multi-year blanket approvals for activities that meet those requirements, some of these processes are very intensive in time, staff and labor.
The government isn't making money on this. Even the very large projects that involve the MDEQ/USACE JPA only have fees up to about $4,000 and the federal government gets $10 to $100. Pretty sure are tax dollars are making up some big-time differences on some of these applications and projects. I have been involved in these in the past and the papers put out for some of these are the same a writing a novel. A novel written by engineers and technically trained resource people. Can you imagine what each one of those costs to produce?
Of course, when Engler split the MDNR originally into two departments, creating the MDEQ (after he came to our MUCC board of director's meeting and promised he would never do that while asking for our votes - I know - I was there and on the board at that time), they - they being the MDEQ - 'streamlined (http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,4561,7-135-3313_3681_3710---,00.html)' the process so quite a few 'treatments' wouldn't need a 'complicated' permit process. They also attempted to make the process much quicker, less invasive for the permittee and they approved some very controversial permits that had been disapproved multiple times up to and including court battles.
You have to understand - for wetlands - Michigan was the only state that the Army Corp of Engineers allowed to do their own permitting process. After the split occurred and some of these permits were suddenly 'approved' the USACE stepped in and threatened to take away Michigan's privilege to process these permits for their own natural resources. The USACE said we can't trust you to protect your resources so we'er going to take all the control back. Of course, there are many who would definitely say this is the pot calling the kettle black considering under the USACE's 'watch' all these decades, the United States of America has lost a huge majority percentage of its precious (my personal opinion) wetlands resources. Still bad though when an agency that should do a lot better tells you that you are even worse!
In the end, Michigan has stayed involved in the process, but through the MDEQ, not the MDNR. The USACE is probably more tightly involved than they might have been otherwise. And we are still losing wetlands at an alarming rate. Regardless, I don't think the government can do anything for less than a $50 cost and the MDNR isn't getting the money. The MDEQ is. If there is any money being made, it is by the companies that do the 'weed' treatments.
Quote from: Manxfishing on July 14, 2012, 02:48:44 PM
we fished the lake Wen. night
More then a few 4#'s were caught and I thought the lake looked OK, there's still allot of weed beds missing from the weed kill from last year
Now the funny part is
Weed kills kills do shut down the fishing
And there's a NBAA motor city challenge today out there and on Mon night Div 40 which has been drawing 30 plus boats this year fishs out there
Good luck
My old club actually researched this years ago because we always had some really tough club tournaments on good lakes. What we found out was by changing our schedule just a little bit, we DRAMATICALLY improved our catches on these same lakes! The first 3 to 5 days after a major weed treatment, the fishing can be really tough. Then, about 2 weeks after, with less cover to hide in and ambush from, the fishing was REALLY good!! The difference was more than amazing.
Of course, part of me always wonders if we are doing the fish a favor by creating an artificially high catch rate by human behavior? On some inland lakes, I think it is best to avoid creating the conditions for artificial forage depredation and more particularly for artificial increase in gamefish harvest potential. On other lakes, it might help sometimes...
It is interesting that in the permitting process for 'weed' treatment, it says the MDEQ (some documents can't keep up with the department splitting and merging but the MDEQ does have the authority in this) can have an employee there to monitor. Have you ever seen an MDEQ or any state employee monitoring treatments?
Pretty hard for so few people with bad budgets to monitor so many treatments. I don't want anyone to think that I'm saying ALL 'weed' treatment companies are bad, but I remember when I was heavily involved in wetlands and treatment permitting processes, I would get a fair number of (confidential - very confidential because you could lose your job) calls from concerned MDNR employees before the first split and for a while after the split some MDNR or now MDEQ employees, asking if we could just happen to have a few bass anglers fishing on Lake _____ (fill in the blank) next Tuesday. Maybe just keep an eye out for some treatment people to see if they stay in their assigned limits for treatment areas and amount of chemicals. Some of these 'weed' treatment people were NOT happy to see us fishing within sight all day! Not happy at all...
More than a few times, angry words were heard and large amounts of unused chemical was hauled away by very upset treatment employees. I, personally, had a number of people confront me and ask what I thought gave me the right to question or suspect them (if that is what I was doing :o heck, I was just fishing...)? I would simply point to the water and say, 'that and everything in it belongs to me too, and I care about it quite a bit.'
Nowadays, I'm don't get involved that directly as often but I have also found that they have come up with ways, when they feel it might be necessary, to make sure we can't watch them. Why do you think that is?
Meanwhile, while I was typing all this, we probably lost another 5, 10, maybe 50 acres of wetlands, and who knows how much nice aquatic bass cover, in the US...
Why do I bother writing all this? Because I really, really like fishing. I really like fishing in clean water with nice, healthy fish in it.
By the way, we have a new MDNR director - Keith Creagh - appointed by Governor Snyder effective July 9th (http://www.greatlakesbass.com/conservation/index.php/2012/07/14/keith-creagh-named-mdnr-director). He was formerly the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development (MDARD) Director. Don't know much about him but at least Gordon Guyer, who I always liked, had nice things to say about him. Keith Creagh says of himself that he is a lifelong outdoor enthusiast. Check out the news release at the link above.
See also - MDNR Meet the Director (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10366-282078--,00.html).
Personally, I have always though our fisheries and wildlife, and the natural resources and environment we all require are best protected under one agency, but hey - this way with a separate MDNR and MDEQ we get to have two well-paid director positions! MDEQ Meet the Director Dan Wyant (http://www.michigan.gov/deq/0,4561,7-135-3306-248911--,00.html).
I will be there Monday night with my son. Div 40 is run by the Cowen family and Bob Ayott. It is the best run series i have ever fished. 35-40 boats a week show they are doing something right.
Be interesting to see the condition of the weeds after 4 days since treatment.
Thanks for clearing all that up DK. I forgot Snyder put the MDEQ and MDNR as separate entities again. I don't know which is better either separate or together. I guess we will know when the next Dem Governor is elected. By then there will be enough data. All I can say is what a fiasco. Both groups should just regulate those kills better. That's why I avoid the inland lakes. No weed kills on LSC or Erie although they have problems of their own. I wonder how these weed kills effect a lake with VHS or any other fish killing disease. I speculate that it can't be good.
BD. ;D
Quote from: dartag on July 14, 2012, 05:10:44 PM
I will be there Monday night with my son. Div 40 is run by the Cowen family and Bob Ayott. It is the best run series i have ever fished. 35-40 boats a week show they are doing something right.
Be interesting to see the condition of the weeds after 4 days since treatment.
Good luck - my advice is find the greenest weeds left out a little deeper, if you have some. If not, find the greenest weeds shallows. If not, find the thickest weeds that aren't totally dead.
And tell Paul I said hi. Tell him I said, remember that day on Comedero with the 8 pounders and Hugo!?! :)
My wife and I fished the NBAA Motor City tournament on Saturday and the effects of the weed spraying were starting to become evident with lots and lots of brown vegetation. It still took 17+ lbs to win and 13.6 for a check. We ended up with just under 15 which was good enough for 3rd. If you could find green grass, you were near fish......
I don't like to see the weed spraying either. It is an unfortunate reality of inland lakes in populated areas.
I was substitute director for the NBAA Motor City on Saturday. The weight coming out of oakland are amazing. 17+ lbs to win. Big fish was 5.19. There were quite a few big fish caught.
Nice job on the finish in the money Flippin222!
Vic
it will be interesting to see what happens as the week progresses with an event tomorrow and again on wednesday
Quote from: bassmandan on July 15, 2012, 09:15:23 PM
it will be interesting to see what happens as the week progresses with an event tomorrow and again on wednesday
And then an event on Saturday too. The data will tell the story, that being limits weighed, total number of fish, the ratio of the two, and it goes on and on.
BD. ;D
There are tourneys on Oakland every couple days all summer. Does not seem to hurt the fishing.
Quote from: UAWBigDog on July 16, 2012, 06:55:26 AM
Quote from: bassmandan on July 15, 2012, 09:15:23 PM
it will be interesting to see what happens as the week progresses with an event tomorrow and again on wednesday
And then an event on Saturday too. The data will tell the story, that being limits weighed, total number of fish, the ratio of the two, and it goes on and on.
BD. ;D
i didnt mention saturday cuz im gonna be at that one and want to see the results leading up to it lol
Fishing was pretty good tonight. Lots of limits. I think 13 lbs won. Took 9.5 to finish in the money. M had my 5 by 7 but could not get a big one. SAturday should be fun
Great discussion.
Anyone heard of 'Stoney star wart' or something like that? This is the green carpet looking weed that has overtaken most of the inland lakes in southern michigan. Seems to me the weed killing does not affect this aquatic weed. This weed seems to really choke out a lake.
I guess my point is this weed seems to be overtaking a lot of lakes and getting worse because the native grasses and non native milfoil are being treated, allowing this weed to overtake the treated areas. The fish, specifically bass seem to avoid areas were this weed is prevelent, which further concentrates bass to specific areas. When fish have less usable habitat I would think they would be easier to catch if you can find them. This may be why tournament weights seem to be higher for a select few who find them, but the rest of the field weights are much lower. I don't know if this is true or not, I haven't studied tournament results. I am sure there is much more to it but just and observation from a tournament angler who also lives on a lake where this weed has overtaken the lake and this lake gets treated regularly.