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Author Topic: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???  (Read 12648 times)

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VinceR


You'll never get a coalition of big tournament directors because they all run a circuit the way thy think it should be done and they are all a bit different. Half of them do it because they completely despise how a competitor runs theirs. Same is the rationale of many anglers for why they fish what they do. Because of this you have these rifts where guys from one circuit wouldn't even consider the other based on sheer principal. 

...and egos(?)

This was basically the same resonse that I received the last time I brought this up (on a different message board). But, I can't truthfully say that I disagree with it. I just keep bring it up, hoping that it catches on, somehow.

I definitely agree on the "reset".

Thing is, the question keeps coming up, proving that there are some that are willing to open a dialog. It's just that until people are ready to "man up", and lay their differences aside, we'll continue to just pay "lip service" to this issue. I definitely don't think that adding more tournament series are the answer.


 
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JohnBoy


It's just that until people are ready to "man up", and lay their differences aside, we'll continue to just pay "lip service" to this issue. I definitely don't think that adding more tournament series are the answer.

You are correct, adding more tournaments is NOT the answer but it keeps happening. Why? Just look at the last couple of years I could write a whole paragraph on new circuits. We all know this is one of the big problems but we just keep adding more. What for? To add to our egos because we can do better if we make our own schedule or is it that we dont like whats out there that much that we have to make our own, or maybe those guys just dont care about anyone else. We will probably never know that but one thing I know is that we will never get big tournaments back until some of these small trails give up and go away and thats not going to happen.
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motocross269


If it is all about 100 percent paybacks step up and Fish the BASS opens...100 percent Payback for Pros plus a chance to fish the Bassmaster Classic....It doesn't get much better than that....

I don't think paybacks where the topic of this post..Nor do I think they are the issue with the drop off of tournament competitors...

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You'll never get a coalition of big tournament directors because they all run a circuit the way thy think it should be done and they are all a bit different. Half of them do it because they completely despise how a competitor runs theirs. Same is the rationale of many anglers for why they fish what they do. Because of this you have these rifts where guys from one circuit wouldn't even consider the other based on sheer principal.  

...and egos(?)

This was basically the same resonse that I received the last time I brought this up (on a different message board). But, I can't truthfully say that I disagree with it. I just keep bring it up, hoping that it catches on, somehow.

I definitely agree on the "reset".

Thing is, the question keeps coming up, proving that there are some that are willing to open a dialog. It's just that until people are ready to "man up", and lay their differences aside, we'll continue to just pay "lip service" to this issue. I definitely don't think that adding more tournament series are the answer.

How about a coalition of 3 dealerships and say 2 Seasoned Tournament Directors?  Does 1 major beverage company, 1 major food/resturant company, 6 major boat manufacturers, a major hotel chain, and about 25 other fishing and non-fishing related sponsors sound good?    

The dialog was opened slowly to lead into the "man up" phase which has already begun - differences are being laid aside every day and "lip service" was tucked into bed with the differences.  As far as adding more tournaments that does not apply for this particular venture - it will be The Tournament Series and your not really adding to anything because there isn't anything that even closely resembles what this will be.  

The idea that adding more tournaments is the ONLY ANSWER because these small ones do not have any reason to go away, what we are talking about is nothing even close to any tournament currently in operation - this would be the only MICHIGAN tournament series because it fishes the largest demographic available.  BIG Tournaments are coming back and it does not make any difference what the small trails do because they will have zero impact on this whole deal - no matter how you stack it there are too many guys who have become uncomfortable with the fact that nothing has improved over the last 4-5 years so "RESET" "RESET" "RESET" - its begun.

Less tournaments equals better tournaments????  Lets look at this from a business economics perspective - if there wasn't any competition for Verizon Wireless what do you think would happen to your cell phone bill?  It would go up and the service would never get better because there isn't any competition - COMPETITION drives growth, innnovation, and improvement so if there wasn't any new series the current ones wouldn't have any reason to make anything better.  I said it before but Michigan has the 4th highest tournament participation in the nation so there is no reason we shouldn't be looking at this in the near future - who knows it may already be in the works.
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jgip087


The payback is what I was hinting to in the post above. Look at Bass Champs, any successful large tournament series for that matter that draws huge numbers of boats, and they pay back a lot more percentage than BBT, which was the example I gave. I think BBT draws boats because it has been established and the guys that fish it seem to get along well with one another. I would also conjecture to say that if Lake Drive wanted their tour to be larger, such as BBT, they absolutely could be but they don't want that. With the respect of BBT and the following if they would up the payout to say 80-85% they would still make money running the events and would probably be able to draw fields of 125-150. I know I would fish again if they could come close to the Lake Drive payout of years past, which should be easy with drawing more boats than Lake Drive and charging a similar entry fee.
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2010, 08:25:30 PM »



The idea that adding more tournaments is the ONLY ANSWER because these small ones do not have any reason to go away, what we are talking about is nothing even close to any tournament currently in operation - this would be the only MICHIGAN tournament series because it fishes the largest demographic available.  BIG Tournaments are coming back and it does not make any difference what the small trails do because they will have zero impact on this whole deal - no matter how you stack it there are too many guys who have become uncomfortable with the fact that nothing has improved over the last 4-5 years so "RESET" "RESET" "RESET" - its begun.

Less tournaments equals better tournaments????  Lets look at this from a business economics perspective - if there wasn't any competition for Verizon Wireless what do you think would happen to your cell phone bill?  It would go up and the service would never get better because there isn't any competition - COMPETITION drives growth, innnovation, and improvement so if there wasn't any new series the current ones wouldn't have any reason to make anything better.  I said it before but Michigan has the 4th highest tournament participation in the nation so there is no reason we shouldn't be looking at this in the near future - who knows it may already be in the works.

Now that sounds like common sense to me...apply the basic rules of capitolism and supply/demand to tournament fishing and let the consumer decide....
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2010, 11:32:09 PM »

How about a PAA on a local level minus the professional requirement?  Michigan Tournament Anglers Association sounds OK if that's not already taken; membership cost is $0.00 and benefits include better tournaments, bigger draws, better payouts, and many others.

Michigan Tournament Anglers Association should be forming very soon on a worldwide web near you.
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2010, 11:55:12 PM »

How about a PAA on a local level minus the professional requirement?  Michigan Tournament Anglers Association sounds OK if that's not already taken; membership cost is $0.00 and benefits include better tournaments, bigger draws, better payouts, and many others.

Michigan Tournament Anglers Association should be forming very soon on a worldwide web near you.

Quoting oneself isn't usually kosher but I think an exception can be made in this instance - Michigan Tournament Anglers Association will find its home at www.michigantaa.com (just bought the domain about 30 seconds ago!!) - March 1st sounds like a great launch date.

Opportunity's knocking all we have to do is open the door - this is just too much fun!!!!!!
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LipRip

Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2010, 01:22:22 AM »

hahaha, i'm in, doesnt matter what lake! just love the passion!
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2010, 07:42:40 AM »

Ditto for me. Luke has his ducks in a row. May the force be with you Luke.
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2010, 09:03:38 PM »

Way too many tournaments out there is the reason IMO.  And it seems like every year a few more pop up with promises of better paybacks, etc.  When I first got into fishing tournaments back in 1994, we had Tri-State and BFL for the main weekend circuits (Well over 100 boats at each event), and one local Wednesday night trail that drew over 40 boats each week and was 100% payback.  All of the local club opens drew very well.  South Central's open tournament at Randall was pushing 100 boats, the Rick Miller event at Halfmoon drew a ton of boats (can't remember the number but it was always a crazy blastoff!).  Then Skeeter Warner started Anglers Choice and a couple Tues Night trails, both of which evolved into what is now NBAA.  Then it blew up--There were Monday nights, Multiple Tuesdays and Wed trails, and so on.  Most guys can't afford to fish every night, or they have families and don't have the time available.  So the 40+ boats on Wed nights got divied up to the point where it is now with all of the NBAA, Midwest, and now I guess there's another weeknight org out there (Big Bass Liars?), and 15 boats is a great turnout, and most events have less than 10.  And the lakes are getting absolutely pounded.  I can cherry pick tournaments on 2 lakes and fish at least twice a week in my area.  And 30 boats is now considered a great turnout for the local club opens with most drawing half that.

St Clair is a whole other animal.  There are mulitple events going on almost every Saturday and Sunday, and none of them draw well.  I think the Double Barrell NBAA only gets 35-40 boats, and that's the top weekend trail over there.

Everyone has their reasons for not participating in one or the other--don't like the director, don't like "pros" fishing, think the organization is keeping too much money, economy, time.  I've never fished BBT, but I don't fault anyone for making money running a trail.  It's a lot of work and very expensive, and in general, all of us tournament fishermen can be the biggest whiners out there.  You couldn't pay me enough to run a trail, and have to listen to the bickering and complaining because you're never going to make everyone happy.  I also don't feel that increasing payback will necessarily draw more boats.  Look what happened to CATT?  There are just too many options out there and only so many fishermen.

If we could get rid of all of these tournaments with less than 10 boats that would be a start.
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2010, 01:40:40 AM »

Way too many tournaments out there is the reason IMO.  And it seems like every year a few more pop up with promises of better paybacks, etc.  When I first got into fishing tournaments back in 1994, we had Tri-State and BFL for the main weekend circuits (Well over 100 boats at each event), and one local Wednesday night trail that drew over 40 boats each week and was 100% payback.  All of the local club opens drew very well.  South Central's open tournament at Randall was pushing 100 boats, the Rick Miller event at Halfmoon drew a ton of boats (can't remember the number but it was always a crazy blastoff!).  Then Skeeter Warner started Anglers Choice and a couple Tues Night trails, both of which evolved into what is now NBAA.  Then it blew up--There were Monday nights, Multiple Tuesdays and Wed trails, and so on.  Most guys can't afford to fish every night, or they have families and don't have the time available.  So the 40+ boats on Wed nights got divided up to the point where it is now with all of the NBAA, Midwest, and now I guess there's another weeknight org out there (Big Bass Liars?), and 15 boats is a great turnout, and most events have less than 10.  And the lakes are getting absolutely pounded.  I can cherry pick tournaments on 2 lakes and fish at least twice a week in my area.  And 30 boats is now considered a great turnout for the local club opens with most drawing half that.

St Clair is a whole other animal.  There are multiple events going on almost every Saturday and Sunday, and none of them draw well.  I think the Double Barrell NBAA only gets 35-40 boats, and that's the top weekend trail over there.

Everyone has their reasons for not participating in one or the other--don't like the director, don't like "pros" fishing, think the organization is keeping too much money, economy, time.  I've never fished BBT, but I don't fault anyone for making money running a trail.  It's a lot of work and very expensive, and in general, all of us tournament fishermen can be the biggest whiners out there.  You couldn't pay me enough to run a trail, and have to listen to the bickering and complaining because you're never going to make everyone happy.  I also don't feel that increasing payback will necessarily draw more boats.  Look what happened to CATT?  There are just too many options out there and only so many fishermen.

If we could get rid of all of these tournaments with less than 10 boats that would be a start.

It definitely takes a special personality to run tournaments; I tried it and it's not my bag and will never do it again because I just want to fish.  I will however spend some time and money on figuring out how to decrease the whining, bickering, and complaining - there's an excessive amount here in Michigan and I think we can change that over time.  It's probably a combination of the short season, too many circuits doing it for the wrong reason, and simply an overall negative attitude in general.  Tournament anglers don't have to fish tournaments but they do because they enjoy them; I think that got lost along the way somewhere.  The economy is the only uncontrollable variable but fishing seems to be one of those recession proof industries because it grew again in 2009 and based on the below poll results it leads me to believe it is one of those glass half empty/glass half full things.  Below are the results from a poll from Jan. 28th this year asking guys about their tackle spend so far this winter which just shows that the economy must not be that bad or anglers are terrible at prioritizing their financial responsibilities!!!

Less than $50  0 (0%)
$51 to $100  4 (7%)
$101 to $250  13 (22.8%)
$250 to $500  19 (33.3%)
I'm nuts, way more  21 (36.8%)

The small tourneys will never go away completely but I think there's room for some bigger ones if they're coordinated correctly, run well & for the enjoyment of the sport, and most importantly run by a business with a vested interest in tournament fishing like boat manufacturers and/or dealerships. The days of the for profit circuits are numbered unless they start adapt to today's environment especially the ones run by people that fish their own tourneys for free and walk away with money from other anglers in their pocket without winning like it everyone else has to.  That being said the only way we can start fixing this is through continuing discussions such as these and then turning these discussions into action, www.michigantaa.com will eventually be a voice for all the tournament anglers in Michigan - looking for all ideas and input before March 15th on how to make it relevant and a good start would be getting guys like DK involved right of the bat.  The opportunity is there so its up to all of us to make it happen.
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2010, 09:03:41 PM »

Futile is a very powerful word.  It's positions like "futile" that keep things the way they are in the Michigan tournament scene. 
Why don't we leave "futile" to the Borg and let the Enterprise deal with it.
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2010, 01:45:31 AM »

It is futile to hope that participants will boycott these smaller tournaments and choose bigger tournaments based on philosophy.

Futile is a very powerful word.  It's positions like "futile" that keep things the way they are in the Michigan tournament scene. 
Why don't we leave "futile" to the Borg and let the Enterprise deal with it.

Good luck with your boycott, Captain Picard! 8)

"I can't do it Captain I don't have the power". Captain Kirk says "Beam me up Scotty".  It's just so much fun when the movie references start flying around.  I don't possibly see how that the Cube could even come close to keeping up with the Enterprise; especially when Scotty is working the reactors.  Let's do Avatar next..................................... ......................................... ...........
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Re: Michigan's Decreasing Major Weekend Tournament Draws - Can it be stopped???
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2010, 02:10:51 AM »

To pull a major event off, you need four things:

* Participants willing to compete for the $$$ they shell out

* Body(ies) of water that delivers ample competitive fishing

* Sponsorship money to gaurantee big payouts

* Statewide advertising

To pull this off you need to look at a current organization that can draw sponsors to pay for the massive advertising needed. Once the boaters arrive to sign, the organization would have to pay out 90 % of those boat fees to winners, and this is important and I'll get to that in a moment.

So ask yourself - who could do this ? Well, it may well be the NBAA. They have statewide membership, access to every beer leaguer fisherman, and we all can remember the first big double barrel ? The one where we all went down and weighed in at the RenCen ? Circus environment ? News, TV and media ? It seemed like a great day. Why didnt that get bigger each year ? Well, the declining economy played a role, but in my opinion, its because after some simple calculations, we all came up with a 60% - 65% payout calc for a non-qualifying event, & everyone agreed - scammers - and the following years dwindled (Told ya I'd get back to that).

Reminds me of the ol saying: Pigs get fat, Hogs get slaughtered.

So they have the organization to grow a Michigan-wide 3 major tourny format with one SUPER HUGE Fall Classic. With all their tournaments, they could have their top 2 in each league "qualify" but still pay something into the tournament(s).  They have shown the ability to draw sponsorship. But until they utilize their strength (numbers of boats) and use this BIG TOURNY as a pubicity deal instead of a pocket stuffer (stop paying out only 60 - 65 %), noone will take them seriously.  

My opinion, look at a current circuit in Michigan who has the ability and vision to fullfill those 4 items above, and drive the idea to them. Get a petition Eric that says: IF we had this, this and this, we'd participate in the tournament, and have all of us 400 or so boaters and nonboaters sign it as proof that you have a group of willing people waiting for a circuit to dream big enough with us, and maybe, just maybe, then they take it and run... but set it up so it's their idea, not yours.

The reasoning of hitting a "reset button", and getting "all the directors together" my friends, is a pipedream because they are all making money right now and why would they want to break that right now when moneys hard to come by... Daa. Go find one circuit and drive it home.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 03:28:16 AM by mojo »
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