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Author Topic: Spot Ethic question.  (Read 9999 times)

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MaizeNBlue

Spot Ethic question.
« on: December 04, 2006, 04:26:16 PM »

Ok I'm bored and thought I would ask this. Ok say your fishing a small inland lake TX, and you know the spot that had won back to back years, by the same angler. You draw before him, do you fish that spot?  For the record, I didn't and wouldn't. Just wondering what everyone else thinks. I guess the flip side is we all paid the same money and no one owns the water, just wondering is all.

dhuff

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2006, 04:35:36 PM »

I wouldn't.  I would rather take my time and find my own spots and patterns. That's kind of the reason I quit fishing the ABA's as much.  When I fished a few years ago a tournament hear and there.  The non boaters would steal the spots.  We were on Ponemah a tough day and I was one of three to have a limit and ended up in third.  The next year I get to the spot only to find guess who.  My NON BOATER from the year before camped out on that spot all day long. Geez I wonder how he found that spot.  I would like to get back into fishing some of the ABA's but it seems like you just put in so much work as a boater to just give it all away to guys who don't want to put in the effort for themselves.  Then on top of that they want to run the boat for half of the day.  They should be lucky to get to fish the tournament without a boat.
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bshaner

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2006, 06:22:11 PM »

I dont think this question applies to smaller inland lakes.  These local lakes are just too small to claim spots like the California gold rush.  It's your spot if you get there first.   Especially since there are only so many pieces of fish holding, no rephrase, "bass" holding pieces of structure and areas of cover on most of these lakes. 

Let's take Maize and PB for example.  They both fish Kent as often as I kiss my wife goodbye on the way to work.  They both know the lake inside and out.  They both have fished nearly every spot on the lake and know what produces.  I'd wager in all of the Wixom, Novi Oakland areas they cannot be the only two people that know Kent lake that well.  If I were either one of them or any number of the other people who know the lake like the back of their hand I would flip you off if you rolled up on me and said umm... "that spot is mine", and then I'd go back to fishing.

Let's not fool ourselves, these inland lakes are not big enough to go staking claims.


Big lakes, this question applies.  There are community holes and then there are holes you took your co-angler to and expect him to keep his mouth shut.  You could hit 200 holes (good pieces of structure/cover holding good bass) on the big lakes and never run into someone.  I would expect that if a co-angler let someone in on a spot he would not have known about if I hadnt taken him there, then that pro/boater would have the decency to leave it alone and as a pretty ethical person, I would do no less if I were in that position.


All that being said and you know what I would do in the situation here's my feeling on the subject as a whole:

What are you going to do if someone rolls up on "your spot" before you do and fishes it?  NOTHING.  What can you do legally and what is your recourse?  NOTHING! Why?  Because you do not own the water and it would be vain and foolish to think you do.  What is more unethical, trying to claim something that does not belong to you or fishing an area of water someone other than you found first?  If I happen to find a spot on my own because it looked promising or I had prefished it and you come up on me in the spot on tourney day and tell me it was yours a year ago???  Well... you wouldnt be happy with me.  And if you pressed the issue I'd continue fishing the spot while calling the TD on the cell and have him politely tell you to vacate the 50/100 yards surrounding my boat as per tourney rules.

As for the fishing format of the previously mentioned trail.. dont let me go into that again, please!!  It is very conducive to these types of situations.

B
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Skip Johnson

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 06:49:19 PM »

MaizeNBlu
You put out a real good question that I have been on both sides of several times, heres my perspective.

I personely evaluate the importance of the tournament that Im fishing and the person I may be blocking, I have had peaple draw better than me and take a spot that I realy wanted and it peees me off "BUT" coming around that corner Im praying nobodys there becouse I expect it after all it is competition!
If its a buddy and he showed me the spot or I spotted him last tx on that spot and he told me directley that he was hoping to make it to that spot then its obvious that I need to go somewhere else!

heres another thing I have seen alot, the guy that won or placed in the last TX on a spot draws bad and he goes with plan B so he doesnt waste time fuel and plan B, you leave that spot alone and either nobody or someone you dont care about gets to fish it and you both lose!

The bottom line= ITS THE LUCK OF THE DRAW and a race to the spots thats why so many of us run 200hp plus engines.

If your taking that tournament serious and hoping to cash a check YOU MUST think about fish not other anglers, you can and should still be courtious but if you think on a level of what about the other guy you mind as well show up turn your wallet upside down and go to another lake that may have better fishing that day.

I absolutley believe in practise days and locating my own spots but lets be honest here we cant keep away from spots that we know another guy fishes becouse eventualy you will run out of spots, we all fish mostley the same spots! if I pick my best 10 spots on each lake at least 9 of them are known by someone else and I found them all in my own time during practise.

I can tell you I fished unusual spots at st clair once this year becouse my co angler showed up with a GPS, thats frustrating.
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MBell

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 07:46:17 PM »

If you fish the spot because you saw someone win a tournament on it, that is wrong!!  If you fish against him on his own spot, that's even worse!  I both anglers legitimatly found the spot then the other angler or anglers usually give the winner space out of respect and expect someday the same courtesy will be offered to you.  I hate spot jumpers, I've seen them get in the way of some good anglers.  I always think it's funny to see the perch and walleye guys on top of each other and us bass guys are ready to throw down at 100 yards. 
-Matt 
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MadWags

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Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 08:00:08 PM »

Find your own fish and fish them.
Don't worry about other anglers.
If you end up sharing an area then share it.
Be kind and courteous. Enjoy the sport.
Life is too short to fight over fishing spots.
Give each other enough room to fish and while your at it,
have a conversation about how luck y we are to be able to
participate in this sport. None of us are doing this for a living.
Even if I was I would not approach it any differently.
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McCarter

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2006, 01:12:50 PM »

Stay off my spots, sporto!

Just kidding.

Find your own fish.  It is so much more rewarding when you do have a good finish, or even a win.

Plus, fishing other peoples spots that you know are only those other persons spots, just like the one i know you are refering to, whether in a tournament or not, will only lead to a poor reputation for you.  remember that this is a fairly small community of guys and gals, and just about everyone knows each other in some way or another.  Nothing worse than making the black list in the fishing world.

Bottom line.  Find them yourself.  Then there are no questions involved.

My opinion anyway.

McCarter himself :-\'
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fishon1219

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Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2006, 01:46:57 PM »

Referring to the origanal post, the best way to handle it is to go and ask that angler if they plan on going there first. If they are not going there first thing than by all means have at it. Of course if they have won on that particular hump in the middle of the lake, you know they are going to go there first. When they leave I would say it is fair game. The same thing happened to me in the ABA on Kent that I won this fall. I had a plan in place to fish one particular breakline all day from one point to the opposite point on the other side of the lake. I drew boat number 3 and boat 1 went to one point and threw his anchor and boat 2 went to the other point. Neither of these 2 guys knew my plan and I was in no way upset about this I just knew it was time for the back up plan. I cordially gave boat one lots of room, fished way around him and had some friendly banter the whole time and we both enjoyed it. Than I just went fishing and found the tournament winning fish.

In my mind it is wrong to fish a spot a know somebody else found and the only reason I know about that area is from watching them beat me on it. I cannot enjoy myself knowing that I am spot stealing. If I don't think I am on the fish to place in the event I don't pay my money and that way I know in my heart I am not being an unethical melon. That has never been my style and it never will be. I want to find my own fish and place in an event by finding my own fish.

A good example is the bass club I belong to. I have been in the same club with the same anglers for 20 years and we all know who is going to fish where just because we fish the same lakes just about every year. We know who has good areas, weedlines, breaks, docks etc and we just leave them alone first thing in the morning and everybody goes to there area and starts hoping around from there. A few of us will ask people if they plan on starting in an area we want to fish and if they have a bad draw we just let them go there and start with plan B.

McCarter makes a good point. We are a small community and everybody knows who everybody is and you don't want the reputation of a spot stealer or you soon will find you have no help when you need it. You never know when you will need jumper cables in a tournament.

On inland lakes that certain people fish alot together this can be a tough thing when you are both out fishing a tournament against each other because you both practise alot together on these lakes and you both found the same fish. In this case the guys need to be gentlemen about starting spots and figuring out who will be going where after blast off. During the course of the tx things change and in my opinion it is fair game after about 2 hours in the event. Of course if somebody is sitting were you want to be you dont pull right up on them or cut in front of them on the bank, but I think it is OK to follow behind them at that point.

My point is you have to be a sportsman about these kinds of things and think about how you would feel if you have won that event 2 years in a row off of a hump and you had draw number 4 and watch somebody with a better draw than you, who has never fished that spot until they saw you win the event in that spot beat you to it. You would be plenty PO-ed and rightfully so.
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dhuff

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2006, 02:11:10 PM »

I never care if someone beats me to a spot that I didn't know or they didn't know I was going there.  That one case just ticked me off because he was my non boater from the year before and I helped him to try and catch fish.  Then the next year he sits on that spot from the morning all day. 
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canvsbk

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2006, 04:38:24 PM »

Find your own spots. NEVER give up a buddies or partners spot for any reason.
Everyone's been burnt before, it's not pleasant but it does happen. Be a man about it and be civil, do otherwise and surely you will be judged accordingly. I like to still be able to look a man in the eye back at the ramp.
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dartag

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Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 07:46:35 PM »

this debate was raged on the LSCN site.  3391 views,  53 posts.  most of it was about St-Clair spots.  it got pretty ugly.

http://www.lakestclair.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=19352&hl=spot+stealers


i do my pre-fishing and fish what i find..  never had a bad encounter on the water.   when there are 15 boats on a 300 it gets crowded.  i really like Cass since at 1000 acres there is lots of room. 
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dhuff

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2006, 10:11:42 PM »

Wow some guys are getting really worked up about that.  I am not going to that extreme.  It's just that when it happened to me I was more new to tournament fishing and the draw format left a bad taste in my mouth.  So as of now I would rather fish team tournaments with people I respect or fish the team tournaments alone.  I just wish we had another circuit almost like top bass that fished some of the other lakes around where you got to use your own boat and fish alone. 
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McCarter

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2006, 08:45:04 AM »

Wow some guys are getting really worked up about that.  I am not going to that extreme. 

Sometimes it is so blatant that people cant help but get worked up about it.  And in a lot of cases, its the same guys who, week after week, are being followed around and finding the same people on there spots come tournament day.  It is especially bad on LSC and Erie.

The ABA is horrible for this as well.  Many of the co anglers in the ABA disrespect there previous boaters spots by taking others there.  I have had very close friends of mine in the ABA take boaters to my spots the day after i asked them not to.  But then you pull up to that spot and there they sit.  What they dont understand is, once you have given one boater that spot, it now becomes that boaters spot.  Then, once that boater takes a co angler there, now that co angler knows about it and will in turn take his next boater there, and the cycle continues for ever and ever until there is no one left to show.

I have even heard a boater get mad at another co angler for taking another boater to a spot that boater 1 got from one of my old co anglers who i had taken there to begin with.  If that makes any sense.  Too many boater/co angler transitions there.  even i am confused.

I delt with this my first year of tournament fishing in 2003.  I fished team tournaments with a buddy and he was always wanting to follow other people around.  Even then i knew it was wrong and 'unethical' and in turn, i made a decision not to fish team events with him anymore. 

I have said this before, at the end of the day, reputation is all you have.  That and a 12 pk of Miller Lite.  Do whats right.  None of us are professional bass fisherman.  But occasionally, some more than others, we stumble onto something hot.  Nothing worse than having to share your honey hole with a bunch of clowns because they cant find there own. 

We all make mistakes.  We all use bad judgement from time to time.  Just think about the consequences of your actions before hand.  That alone should help us to make the right decisions.

McCarter himself :-\'
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dartag

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Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2006, 09:05:36 AM »

remember in ABA there are no " Co-Anglers ".  you are fishing  " against " the guy who is sharing your boat.  that is one thing i do not like about ABA.  since you have to honor them, to fish there water,  you may not know he got the info from fishing with another boater.  ABA should adopt the process FLW uses where the non-boaters fish for there own pot.
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Duke

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2006, 09:19:03 AM »

I rarely fish a lake bigger than a couple thousand acres. With that said, fishing other people's spots is an everyday occurrence. However, I feel that if I witness someone whack'em or win a tourney from a spot and I go fish it knowing that same person is in a tournament against me; bad taste. However, thats part of having a boat draw. If its against the rules to fish a spot someone else enjoys...

Nevertheless, I've witnessed some good anglers catch a good limit and I've visited that spot later; even at other tournaments. However, I don't do it if they're in the same tournament. Also, checking out their spot gives me some knowledge about what I should be looking for, not necessarily just to fish that same 50'.

I will never fish another's spot if it could/would cause any problem for that day. However, I've found myself on spots that others' have claimed that I also found in practice. What do I say to a person that claims, "that's my spot!" but I also found it in practice and never knew they fished it? (Hey, great minds think alike! - that normally doesn't cool someone down). Its impossible to always avoid spots that others have won tourneys on; sometimes you just don't know.

I'll say this too, if you rely on a single spot or 2 on any body of water forever in time, you're going to get burned eventually.

Bottom line, if it can help me and won't upset anyone I'll do it. But if its going to cause any problems I'll avoid it at all costs.

Duke
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Skip Johnson

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2006, 09:59:04 AM »

Oh goody I just knew this was going to be a great contraversial thread, Ive been watching this same debate since I joined the sandiego bass masters in the 70,s and I know I will be watching it for another 30 years..hahahaha

Guys heres the bottom line this debate will never end, we need to keep in mind that we are going to lose spots, no amount of protest will stop it becouse it is competition and public water! at the end of the day no matter whats said or felt on the water we need to shake hands and make up or we will all be enamies within 10 years or so, I have seen it before!

the co angler thing is a pain and the thing you need to keep in mind is all of them are there to learn techniques and spots and most dont mean any harm but they WILL poach you!
when you ask a co angler to stay away from your secret spot you might get 1 in 10 that will respect it, that doesnt make him the enamey, he showed up and paid money to learn!

All of us boaters are always trying to learn and catch fish also, theres not a single one of us that hasnt stopped on a spot that we knew somebody else whacked em there!

Just try to be respectfull and dont hold grudges!!!!!!!!

I will say it again its competition and the luck of the draw does apply to bass fishing, if ya cant handle it dont fish tournaments becouse you dont belong in competitions.

If everybody had designated spots for themselves then most of us would be buying 50 hp engines, get real guys we all buy fast boats becouse we know what to expect.
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UAWBigDog

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2006, 07:46:50 PM »

I spend a lot of time on the water.  So I guess I would have to say that it would depend on how sportsmanlike one would want to be.  I would hate to get the reputation of stealing spots.  For example, I know Belleville like McCarter knows Kent.  I would be happy to show McCarter the secrets of Belleville if he would show me in return the secrets of Kent.  I am not a "kiss and tell" kind of guy so whatever he showed me would stay with me. 

I know this guy that I have showed spots to on certain lakes including LSC and Erie.  I come to find out he is telling other people about these spots.  Needless to say, I never tell that dirty *&^%*&^% anything anymore.  This guy has never found to my knowledge any spots of his own.  He is always fishing everyone elses.  There are some places that I don't mind sharing my knowledge, however, when I tell someone that this should be kept to himself or herself, I would expect that individual to have some respect for me and do so.  I fish over 100 days a year and I have done that consistantly for the last 8 years.  So like I said, I spend a lot of time out there.   I think in another blog on this forum, I had said that I had been fishing LSC since I was 8 years old.  I am 47 now and know spots out there that I never ever see people on.  I see a lot of boats fly by me and never stop.  They are probably thinking that "that guy is nuts...there can't be any fish there.  There is no one else around."  I tell you what.....you just keep on thinking that because until you check it out, you will never know.

But this is a very controversial subject and I know there are a lot of very strong feelings about it.


BD           ;D
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MBell

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2006, 11:19:03 PM »

Just a thougt since the co-anglers have become part of this subject.  Has it ever been explored to have some of the co anglers entry contributed to the boaters side.  One of the posts mentions that the co's pay to learn, but the boaters teaching recieve nothing besides what the co's give extra which is not guaranteed.  I would think that if a portion of the co's payback was contibuted to the boater side, more boats would be willing to participate in draw tournamnets.  How you the co-anglers feel about this?  I know it won't happen just an idea.  I figured out that if I owned and operated my boat just to fish the 5 BFL tournaments it would run me $864 per tournament, and I only have an 18' boat. 
-Matt 
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fishon1219

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Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2006, 10:10:59 AM »

Maize were are you. You started this whole mess and havent chimed in at all. I was just wondering if your question was answered?
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Skip Johnson

Re: Spot Ethic question.
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2006, 02:01:30 PM »

Hes sittin back laughing knowing he stirred the pot so hes got good winter reads ;D
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