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Author Topic: Fine levied at Northern Open  (Read 14897 times)

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Revtro

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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2011, 05:12:27 PM »

Good interview and good perspective I think.  It's worth watching.  Thank you for sharing the link.
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2011, 10:01:16 AM »

I watched this video.  Nate Wellman is definitely regretting the whole situation and he is embarrassed.  I think that's enough punishment for one man to endure.  I can't believe people would say that his whole career is over because of one incident that did not even disqualify him from the tournament.  I think FLW is a little rough on him.  He did nothing wrong in that organization.  He shouldn't be punished for doing nothing.  Seems absurd to me that he would be punished in another organization more severely than the organization that the incident took place in for something that didn't occur there.  And where is it so "obvious" that he actually did offer to buy his co-angler's fish??  I wasn't in the boat with him.  Were you??  And I certainly hope his career is NOT over.  He may have a family he needs to support.  I am sure he has embarrassed them enough with this incident as well.  He still has a very promising career in my mind.  The only ones that actually knew what Wellman's intent was were Wellman himself and the co-angler.  The other question that is in my mind is where did he "cheat"??  The only way that there would have been actual cheating was if the co-angler actually sold him the fish.  He didn't so no cheating took place.  None of the results of the tournament were influenced by this incident.

Rational thought and some common sense goes a long way here.  None of these opinions really have much merit including my own.  Bottomline is Nate Wellman is regretful and embarrassed.  Enough punishment for one man.  As I said before, I think the Lord has forgiven him.  I know I have.



BD                            ;D  
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 07:39:42 PM by UAWBigDog »
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2011, 01:46:16 AM »

It just proves that you cannot and should not even joke about these rules. Anglers can't afford to do it and the tournament organizations can't afford to have anglers do it. I think anglers at all levels should already know this, but especially at the top level where so much is at stake.

Nate has admitted enough himself to show that the co-angler had to report what happened and leave it up to B.A.S.S. to decide what, if anything, to do about it. Anyone who calls the co-angler anything other than unfortunate doesn't care enough about bass tournaments.

FLW knows as much as B.A.S.S. does that certain things cannot be allowed to pass without some action, and they are competing with B.A.S.S. Should be no surprise that they did something in this situation.

It is very common for other tournaments groups to act in a situation involving the rules for something like this that happens in another organization. Anyone who wonders why should reread my three paragraphs above until they don't wonder anymore.

I don't questions B.A.S.S.' decision because I wasn't there and I don't have the level of knowledge and involvement that the three parties did. I don't doubt for a moment that B.A.S.S. didn't know what was coming to some extent, and they know that sometimes, things that are reported by anglers late don't get any action or are handled completely private in some other manner. Some we never hear about at all.

I don't know either angler personally. I don't already like or dislike either angler from any personal experience with one or the other as some do. What I care about is the integrity of the sport of bass tournament fishing. I believe that does mean action was required in this case. Action was taken and it was made public, at least partly in an attempt to warn others not to make the same mistake. Because the sport does not need it!

To me personally, that is, and will have to be, good enough.
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UAWBigDog

Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2011, 11:52:27 AM »

It just proves that you cannot and should not even joke about these rules. Anglers can't afford to do it and the tournament organizations can't afford to have anglers do it. I think anglers at all levels should already know this, but especially at the top level where so much is at stake.

This is politically correct stuff that occurred after September 11, 2001.  Because of that day, we have all had to change our lives and sometimes jokes are really not jokes.  The rules are there for good reason and they should be taken very seriously especially when there is so much at stake.

Nate has admitted enough himself to show that the co-angler had to report what happened and leave it up to B.A.S.S. to decide what, if anything, to do about it. Anyone who calls the co-angler anything other than unfortunate doesn't care enough about bass tournaments.

My post previous to this one was only meant to stir the mind.  Get people thinking rationally.  Although common sense doesn't seem to be so common, in good conscience I think we would have all done the same thing as the co-angler did that day.  That's what keeps integrity in the sport.  That is super important on the Tournament Trail.  People care about a lot of things, but its surprising sometimes just what they care about.  A lot of people don't care about bass fishing, tournaments, the weather, etc., etc.  Some people may call the co-angler a "rat".  I only said that to stir the mind as there are a lot of other perspectives beside yours, mine, the forums, the whole country.  We are fortunate to be free men and can talk about these things rationally.

FLW knows as much as B.A.S.S. does that certain things cannot be allowed to pass without some action, and they are competing with B.A.S.S. Should be no surprise that they did something in this situation.

FLW wants credible people in their organization as B.A.S.S. wants credible people in theirs.  Yes they are competing organizations, but I am a little surprised that FLW did act on the issue.  Of course I really don't know of such things and rely on DK's expertise here.  Thanks DK, I appreciate that.

It is very common for other tournaments groups to act in a situation involving the rules for something like this that happens in another organization. Anyone who wonders why should reread my three paragraphs above until they don't wonder anymore.

This is probably true in fishing but I know of no other organization that would do this.  If anyone can name another incident where there were two organizations in one sport besides fishing I would like to know.  I am trying to think of where this may of happened in professional football between the NFL and the CFL.  More investigation here on my part.

I don't questions B.A.S.S.' decision because I wasn't there and I don't have the level of knowledge and involvement that the three parties did. I don't doubt for a moment that B.A.S.S. didn't know what was coming to some extent, and they know that sometimes, things that are reported by anglers late don't get any action or are handled completely private in some other manner. Some we never hear about at all.

B.A.S.S. did what they had to do to keep the integrity of their organization.  FLW followed suit.  They want to do the same.  I guess this shouldn't be surprising.  But I did raise my eye brow when they came down with disciplinary action too.
 
I don't know either angler personally. I don't already like or dislike either angler from any personal experience with one or the other as some do. What I care about is the integrity of the sport of bass tournament fishing. I believe that does mean action was required in this case. Action was taken and it was made public, at least partly in an attempt to warn others not to make the same mistake. Because the sport does not need it!

No sport needs this today.  In the world of professional sports, integrity and credibility mean a lot.  Especially since more and more kids are watching.  We all want good role models for kids.  What happened here is not the message I want to send my kids.  I want them to win and participate fair and square.  Credibility and integrity should be their most prize possession.  Very important as they grow and enter the business world.

To me personally, that is, and will have to be, good enough.

Good enough for me too DK.  Your post was well said and in a nutshell, was right on the money.  


BD                                        ;D
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 11:55:41 AM by UAWBigDog »
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2011, 10:08:18 AM »

Where can I get some of that Kool Aid?

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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2011, 03:48:42 PM »

Kool Aid is for kids...
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2011, 12:30:56 AM »

I wouldn't waste time taking it personally. I'm not going to let it get personal either.

Lots of people across the Internet have various personal motives in this topic which makes it that much more of a hot topic. You probably are not aware of most of that because you aren't from the West side of the state nor have you fished the tournaments that would make you aware of the myriad side-issues fanning the flames of an incident that was unfortunate enough all by itself. I'm not going to get into details on this site about them either. There are plenty of places still for people to go who want to spend their time that way.

No one likes to feel they may have been cheated but there's more than that going on because of some history and the various people involved and/or possibly affected.

People can debate whether the punishment was enough forever but it has been meted out. The punishment might not be exactly what everyone wants but it is pretty severe considering the publicity, the distrust from a large number of people, possibly forever including many who barely knew he existed before, and the loss of even being able to compete in one whole tournament organization for over a year (and possibly forever).

The punishment goes way beyond a fine and probation obviously. As long as I've known who he was I know he's wanted to be a full-time tournament angler really bad. He still could lose all that permanently within the next year. He's already lost quite a bit of opportunity. That seems like a pretty serious punishment to me. Some people do come back from things like this and some don't.
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2011, 09:07:05 AM »



Just what do you mean by that??    ???     ???



BD.                ;D
[/quote]

Nothing personal or offensive.  If I was ever going to try to be personal or offensive, I would do it privately.  Can't imagine I ever would try to be, but if I was, it would be between you and I, not the whole universe.  I don't think I would want it done to me, so I would never do it to anyone else.  I get on the forums and facebook etc to have fun.

Notice I didn't say I was joking.  I wanted to, but I was afraid you'd go looking for my dad to collect a grand from him. 

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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2011, 03:19:22 PM »

I feel bad for his dad now the whole world knows he walks around with that much cash in his pocket.

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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2011, 07:28:53 PM »

I feel bad for his dad now the whole world knows he walks around with that much cash in his pocket.


I was thinking the same thing... that's a whole story in itself.
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2011, 07:48:16 PM »

BD, jealousy is not really one of the major issues in this case.

It was a much hotter topic, and still is on some other websites. Been pretty tame on here actually.
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2011, 07:54:54 AM »

"  And a message to his sponsors if you read these forums, "The UAWBigDog supports Nate Wellman.  Please don't pull your sponsorships and support him."

If you read who his main sponsor is he will have no problem. 
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smbassman

Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2011, 12:46:23 PM »

Lots of people across the Internet have various personal motives in this topic which makes it that much more of a hot topic. You probably are not aware of most of that because you aren't from the West side of the state nor have you fished the tournaments that would make you aware of the myriad side-issues fanning the flames of an incident that was unfortunate enough all by itself. I'm not going to get into details on this site about them either. There are plenty of places still for people to go who want to spend their time that way.

No one likes to feel they may have been cheated but there's more than that going on because of some history and the various people involved and/or possibly affected.

Dan - You may not want to get personal but, the way I'm reading it,  you just indicated that Nate Wellman has a history of doing this kind of stuff or at least similar stuff.  Just an observation.
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2011, 01:22:43 AM »

I can see looking at it how it could be interpreted different ways.

My intention and meaning was not about pre-existing feelings or unknowns. What I did mean is that many people have strong feelings about Nate that existed before this tournament. I don't know anything about him personally but I sure do know that there are lots of strong feelings about him among quite a few anglers. That is no secret to many West side anglers, or anglers who have been around the higher level tournaments for any length of time. Lots of strong emotions. Not much ambivalence.

When people feel strongly one way or the other about someone, some will let that color their actions / decisions. When you're running tournaments, you can't act based on whether you like one party more or less than the other. You act based on the actual incident and the rules. You cannot have a successful tournament organization if you play favorites or rule inconsistently based on how you feel about anyone either.

When I was involved in running tournaments years ago, I was involved with others in making decisions several times that were very tough. All of them were made based on the rules and the known information, not on how I felt about the people involved before any particular incident.

No one does like to feel like they have been cheated, so there are some people out there, who like me, believe it should just come down to what is known. It should just come down to the rules, what happened in this incident and what B.A.S.S. did about it, not how anyone feels about any of the involved parties.

I do not doubt that some people think this one incident was enough to at least require a DQ because people don't like to feel cheated ever, but some people seem to be acting the way they are because of how they feel about Nate. Some people seem to be acting the way they are because they know and/or are sticking up for the co-angler or think he was a snitch, and some seem to be acting the way they are because because of how they feel about the 2nd place boater.

I have no knowledge of, or have seen or heard any evidence of any other rules issue involving Nate besides this one, so that is all I'm going by. I assumed from the beginning that the incident was reported after the event was over and that is possibly why it turned out the way it did simply because I have seen how B.A.S.S. often rules, and because I have been through a very similar situation personally. I'm not going to hammer at B.A.S.S. or the co-angler for how things turned out. I know how miserable I was when I went through my version of this years ago.

I stated from the very beginning that I felt B.A.S.S. did what they could based on what was known to them and when it was reported, and also that publicizing it was important as reminder that the sport cannot afford to allow the rules to be broken or taken lightly. That's it for me.

Based on the people who have told me things over the years and some of the really strong reactions, some of what has been said on various websites definitely appears to me to be driven by personal feelings about one party or another that existed before the incident, not the actual infraction. That's all I meant and I can see why some people will not be aware that these other things are driving some of this behavior.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 01:25:52 AM by djkimmel »
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Durand Dan

Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2011, 04:52:35 AM »

I've watched this thread and have avoided judging a situation I had no first hand knowledge of. It seems it might be time to close, or let this topic rest.
I realize there are many here that have made very few mistakes and as non-celebrities our mistakes are not news or very memorable.  ;) This issue needs to be left to the individual to correct and overcome.
DD
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2011, 01:08:32 PM »

And where is it so "obvious" that he actually did offer to buy his co-angler's fish??  I wasn't in the boat with him.  Were you??  And I certainly hope his career is NOT over. He still has a very promising career in my mind. Maybe the co-angler was just a "jealous rat".  "Jealous" because Wellman is a professional fisherman and he gets to fish every day and a "rat" because he is nothing more than a "tattle tale".  The only ones that actually knew what Wellman's intent was were  Wellman himself and the co-angler.  The other question that is in my mind is where did he "cheat"??  The only way that there would have been actual cheating was if the co-angler actually sold him the fish.  None of the results of the tournament were influenced by this incident. None of these opinions really have much merit including my own.  BD                            ;D  

And you just open up and remove all doubt ..... I just couldnt disagree more with this post.

   I had the pleasure to draw Joe this weekend on day 1 of the Michigan BFL so this isnt hersay - its from the horses mouth.... He is clearly none of the words you supposed. He is soft spoken, thoroughly worked areas and helped me stay on fish even when he couldnt get the same bite I was getting. He is a quality person. He was a man put in a very regretfull position. On the cruise back in through metro canal after we fished, he thanked me for not asking or prying.. then and we talked. And what happened afterwards. Things you dont hear about.

   He told me this well known successful boater asked him not once or twice but 4 times to buy his fish, and the last time was the documented, "we can go out in the middle of the lake and swap" , "noone will see", and "my dad has thousands right now". There is his INTENT .... Wellman had a PLAN and even though it was less than an hour, it was premeditated. Thats called cheating, and this tactic is not new. Had Joe taken the money, the results would have been influenced AND NOONE WOULD HAVE KNOWN. Doesn't that make you wonder how many other co-anglers "earned" $1000 from Wellman ??? How many other boaters lost $10,000s to him (difference between first and second is always huge) ??  So thats why the FLW took their actions ...

   Joe is now a boater, affected by this because of mouthy opinionated jack behindes who emailed and called him a bunch of names .... kinda  like what you wrote............ I call Joe a hero. Cause it takes courage to be a hero. I wonder what Joe would say if he were on this stand up website ? What would you "speculate" about him if he were here ?

   So like I said, but with fact, I disagree with your post.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 09:12:03 PM by Mojo »
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BRONZEBACK67

Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2011, 05:00:24 PM »

Hello all. I wanted to thank MOJO for the kind words about me and also ask bigdog why he would call me a rat or better yet a "tattle tell" I used to love to call the kids on the playground tattle tell when I was SEVEN!

I never had a doubt that Nate was not joking. He was very serious with his offer and I was never jealous. I own my own business which allows me to work from home and pretty much fish when I want. So, the thought of me being jealous of nate is not even close to accurate.

We are supposed to judge those that break the rules. I had to say something or I would have broke the rules. I honestly thought this was over, but still people are going to have their say in what the rules clearly outline as an infraction.

he admitted to a rules violation and the fines have been levied.

Good day and thank you for your time.
BB67 
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Ray Scott weighs in on the Nate Wellman fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2011, 07:37:26 PM »

Ray Scott weighed in on this. And these words written to Joe are all the vindication he needs:

http://www.bassfan.com/rayscott_article.asp?ID=73


"As for Nate Wellman, I still hope he takes a polygraph for his own sake. I would gladly pay for it, although Joe Stois has already beaten me to that offer. I understand he still wants to take one himself. Stois is the one clear winner in this incident. I have had the pleasure of talking with him and I know a straight shooter when I hear one. He is my hero and I told him so. It took a lot of guts to do what he did. He was not only scared; he hated doing what he had to do. But it was the rule. In my book he displayed the kind of integrity that built the B.A.S.S. Tournament Trail.

It took years to win the publicís trust in regard to competitive fishing. B.A.S.S. blazed that trail. But this incident is a reminder that this trust is a victory that has to be won over and over again through constant vigilance and constant, even ruthless, enforcement of rules, as untidy and inconvenient as it may be to do so..."

Dang, I like this Ray Scott guy, who is he ? Anyone help me ? We seem to think alot alike .................

« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 09:09:12 PM by Mojo »
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Re: Fine levied at Northern Open
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2011, 01:43:38 AM »

It has always appeared to me that most people were supportive of Joe. I would just go with the majority who are supportive and ignore the few who don't seem to understand why we have these rules.

It also appears to me that enough unfortunate things have been written and I think it is time to rest the topic for a little bit here. I really don't want it to end up a few people taking pot shots at each other. Won't change things or improve things here anymore than it has on other websites that it has already happened on.
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