I saw a post on Facebook today and I was disappointed with what it said because my old neighbor blamed God for pot and drugs and what not and how he can't be trusted.. I proceeded to tell her about how God gave choices and to use his creation how we please and why he doesnt stop man from dong bad things and making bad decisions... I told her God let's us choose wether or not to love him.. And how He could easily make us love him but what is love if it is forced upon someone? It's not love.. One of her friends commented on it and then told me that I am "the reason why people turn into atheists" I feel very low because of this comment.. I feel like All I did. Was express my opinion, as did every one else on there before me.. I feel like I did the right thing or but another part of me tells me otherwise :(
Some people have bad days, or just issues in general and then take it out on other people. Some people just spurt out whatever pops into their head without thinking about it or thinking of the consequences.
Remember that since people have the freedom of will to choose to say just about anything to someone else whether it is rationale, intelligent or just plain mean, it is also your choice to allow them to get to you or not. Remember that. We all have choices to make though I'm not saying it is always that easy.
Just do your best to make the right choices for you and stay true to yourself. When other people choose to sink to a negative, dark level don't go with them. Often when people say hurtful things, it is because they are hurting, but you can't always help people who don't want to be helped, maybe for that time anyway.
Do what you can, but don't take the entire world on your shoulders.
Bassinkid,
I hope this doesn't sound preachy or offend anyone on but I have found this to be true as far as talking to people about religion.
I have found that people are similar to flowers when it comes to religion. A little water can make them grow but a lot of water can drown them. Also remember that all you can do is water, it is god that makes them grow. Many people are turned off to religion due to: all the hypocrisy around, not having an accurate knowledge of what the bible says and means, and having it forced upon them. I always try remember that when the good book says to "buy out the opportune time", not every time is the opportune time. I had a person call me once for a guide trip and the first thing he asked was whether I was going to preach to him for 8 hours during the trip. He had previously went on a trip with another guide and was bombarded with the good word, not an opportune time and a big turnoff. And also remember as mentioned above, you can water all you want but you can never make them grow.
I hate to argue with people. I'm not big on conflict. I have always been the one to try and FIX things. To settle things down. For this reason, I never discuss politics or religion with strangers. It only leads to conflict. Nobody out there believes the things that I believe, but I am the only one who has to be happy with my beliefs. I will never sway someone else into believing the way I believe, so why discuss it?
Sounds like your response was spot-on accurate based on biblical teachings as I know and believe them. Of course I dont know the tone of that whole FB discussion - maybe the timing was just off? Sometimes I feel I am not as vocal about my faith as I should be. It's partially just my nature to not want the conflict and events like you explained confirm that. I try to let my actions and lifestyle set an example for those around me and sometimes that can lead to someone to start asking you questions which opens the door (they are then more receptive to your opinions). As you explained it, it doesnt sound like you were too preachy and maybe the Truth hurt a little - which isnt always bad. Maybe it will get them thinking. Keep your head up Kid!
I sometimes try to skip steps in my life to get ahead. And it seems God reminds me in many different ways I can't do that, and HE is the one in control. I believe that's a part of human nature God gave us. So I really try to remember to use all the steps, in life as well is teaching about him.
Prepare the ground - find out where a person stands in their faith ( not just a posting and keep it one on one, as others may want to distract )
Plant the seed - ( if there is none there ) just under the serface ( not on top, or too deep )
Fertilize - resources, testimony
Water - encouragement, friendship, and like MBFT said, not too much or too little.
We are never guaranteed to see the fruits of our labor here on earth. But God will show us signs that we are doing his work, whether it's a person that accepts Christ, or one that is moving in that direction. If we stumble and fall, he will be there to pick us back up.
And always remember, it's not for us, but all for him.
Here is my point of view on why some turn to atheism since I am in that category. I understand why the majority are religious since I grew up in a catholic family, went to a catholic high school, went to church 2-3 times a week until I graduated. During this time I asked myself many questions that just simply didn't make sense to me. I had to be sure catholicism was the truth if I was going to live my life by it. It really is the most important question I am sure we have all pondered over throughout our lives.
I just cant accept devoting my life to a belief solely on faith I need facts which is why I gravitate towards the scientific side. Instead of believing a book written thousands of years ago by people who thought the world was flat and everything revolved around us I put more stock into the smartest people on our planet who spend there lives figuring out how everything actually works. Its hard to deny evolution and the evidence behind it. Its hard to accept that our planet is only 6 or 7 thousand years old or whatever low number the bible claims. What about the big bang theory it makes more sense than the bibles version I can go on and on.
I also thought about the number of religions in the world and its in the hundreds, now why would there be so many different beliefs and which one is right? Well I think its just a matter of human nature and our fear of death and the unknown. Its human nature to find a way to be comforted that when we pass its not the end. I was taught that anyone who was not catholic was doomed and will burn in hell for eternity. I never heard anything so evil, it came off as a scare tactic to me. Now your telling me a kid in Pakistan who grew up to be Buddhist simply because that's what he was taught to believe will burn in hell for it. No I will not accept that! We are a product of our surroundings and I will not believe in a God who punishes people for that I can go on and on.
Just a few questions I could not get past. Others who have the same view think this way for a reason. Not because we are a bad person, depressed, or need guidance we just look at the world differently I guess. I respect your beliefs and understand its a very positive way to live life. But in reality nobody on this planet knows for sure and that's why many get upset when preached too.
So far so good. The conversation is respectful. I want to encourage it to stay that way everyone, k? The reason I say this is because I have seen this sort of conversation get way out of hand very quickly when someone feels their beliefs are being minimized. So thanks everyone for keeping it respectful and toned down.
Tcook makes some very valid points. Many people feel as he does and when "preached at" immediately turn off to the message. Bassinkid, it doesn't sound to me like you're the preachy sort from what I'm seeing, so I agree with the thought that sometimes the truth hurts a little. Another possibility is that many people (not all) blame God for the problems in their lives that they refuse to take personal responsibility for. Still others base their ideas on their best understanding of science, which has many flaws as well. What I'm saying is that there are many different sorts of people out there coming from a variety of perspectives. Humans tend to think they are usually right. So, often a conversation such as the one you described will end up just as you depicted. What I came to understand a long time ago is that I cannot be responsible for people's decisions. Some will choose God, some won't. All I can do is present the word with compassion and try not to judge. The rest is up to them and God. If at some point the person turns off to what I'm trying to communicate, I have leave it in God's hands and not try to feel too beat up about it.
I would like to offer one respectful comment regarding the idea that everyone but Catholics go to hell. This is not what the majority of Christians in the world believe. This might come as a surprise but an article I just read quoted a statistic saying some 60% of Christians worldwide would agree that there will be people outside of the "Christian faith" who will enter Heaven. Whether or not I agree with that position is irrelevant. The point is that regardless of what you may have been taught in your church experience, this isn't the paradigm most Christians accept. I certainly don't want to spark any controversy, so I mean this in the most respectful way I can say it...not all science agrees with the propositions mentioned above and not all Christians disagree with evolution, big bang, earth age, etc. I don't think painting Christianity with such a broad brush does it justice. Again, there are many perspectives and many religious people who are very scientific in their understanding of the universe. There is probably a lot more middle ground than most people think.
Tcook, thanks for chiming in. And everyone, thanks for not slamming him or trying to preach at him. It's important for all sides to respect one another's beliefs.
A guiding trip or other business does not seem to be the proper time to preach to anyone though I've had others do so to me also. I just tell them now is not the right time and ask that they respect my wishes. Respect is one way for everyone to get along better. I know when I'm in the outdoors, I already feel plenty of the majesty of the experience we are fortunate to enjoy.
No one makes other people read anything on the Internet so it is more than a little surprising that some people choose to read things they know they aren't going to like and then get upset by it. As someone very smart used to always say, life is too short. Lets go fishing.
bassinkid16, just remember that you can't make anyone an atheist or convert anyone anyway. They have to choose. Most people probably don't make those kinds of decisions based on one thing or one incident. Just like people can choose to be happy or sad or angry. Or to jump on someone else because they said something they didn't like.
kid - you'll soon realize that there are people (lots of them) who are just victims in their own mind. It's never their fault, someone is out to get them and responsibility is a bad word. They have no ambition or sense of responsibility to begin with - so don't expect religion to motivate them.
As for your argument, the point is valid - you can't point out God as an antagonist without playing within the confines of what God means - real or not. It sounds like you are already dealing with stupid people - best advice is to just avoid them or give them something shiny to occupy them.
I put myself somewhere between agnostic and atheist (if there is such a thing) for many of the same reasons as cook. I don't find the notion of God to be unbelievable - I am however a cynic and find the sources of the bible to be highly suspect and riddled with politics and corruption. I just can't believe that not one thing was ever influenced by the man that wrote it down. At the same time - this is my point of view - and as much as i'm entitled to it, you are entitled to yours.
Bassinkid I'll tell you what, you're gonna get a lot of resistance while trying to spread the word of our lord and savior jesus christ, but that is just one part of our walk that will present challenges. You will have to realize though that most of our challenges will come from within ourselves. The Lord will present us with many temptations and circumstances in which he will stand back and judge us by our decisions. The truth is everyone will falter and that is why we should be so thankful for Gods gift to us, his son jesus who died for all of our sins. Having accepted Jesus into your heart will fill you with the holy spirit and your decisions will be easier to make in your walk. Exactly how you were able to speak up to your neighbor and share with her that she is solely responsible for her decisions. Its called a walk of faith for a reason. If God controlled all of our thoughts and actions there would be no walk because there would be no faith and judgement. The fact is you did the right thing and I commend you for that. Stand tall in your faith friend and don't let others actions or words get you down.
I do not want to rub anyone the wrong way because my intentions are at their best, but I will have to disagree though with others stating that there is and isn't a "Proper" time to share our beliefs with them. Every breath of life is a gift from god and we all should be thankful for that. In return for that gift, spreading his word is a responsibility and our calling. It doesn't come down to being respectful or disrespectful either. I tell people to look at it this way, I care enough about all my brothers and sisters to share my faith with you in hopes that it may spark a passion inside of you to seek the lord. The lord promises us everlasting life and love and to spare us from a horrible fiery eternal death in hell. It is a gift that the lord offers and we are just trying to present it to you. I am not trying to jam "religion" down your throats, but only to spread his love. Honestly guys there are many hyprocites out there that call themselves saved christians, but are actually far from the lord. Of course these are things that can give a wrong impression, but I ask you next time someone is sharing their testimony with you to ask him some questions and see if he is really filled with the holy spirit. I promise you that you will be able to tell. Just know that we are speaking with you because we want you to be saved and have everlasting life. Not in anyway would I think anyone is inferior to me or my beliefs because of their views and I understand if you are not interested in my testimony at this time. I know this topic has some controversy guys, but God is love and thats the core of it all. I appreciated all of the responses on here guys and how everyone kept it straight.
Wow. This is a very insightful conversation. I think everyone has explained their thoughts and beliefs very well and respectfully.
The thing is there are tons of religions out there. And if you feel strongly about the one you believe in, then I would expect that person to also want everyone else to experience that same joy and tell them about it. And even those who are Atheist I think would want to tell others because it is what makes them the most happiest in life, at least I would hope so.
I am what you call a "born again" Christian or what many churches are now calling "a follower of Christ". And my teaching comes from the Bible and not just the pages that suit my life, but all of it. And I find joy in what it says and teaches and try to live my life as best to the those teachings as I can through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And when I have the opportunities to tell someone of my faith, I do. That's what God says for His followers to do in the Word.
So Bkid, coming from what I explained as my point of view, I truly understand your feeling of disappointment with how your FB discussion went. It sucks...you start to second guess something you might have been able to say differently and such. Well don't! Like it was stated by a couple others in this thread, all you can do is stand up for your faith and speak what you know as the truth and let God handle the rest. I have watched Him do amazing life changes in co-workers and friends that I have never had the opportunity to pray with during their salvation...but I got to plant a lot of seeds that helped get them there. If there is one word of advice I could give you, it is usually conversations on religion or politics in public forum formats like FB or even like this one can be very difficult to negotiate. With that, I want to encourage you to continue your bold witness and stay strong in your faith. Keep praying for those people and God will do His thing.
God Bless!!!
Kid, don't let those comments discourage you from sharing your faith.Your words are encouragement to those who need to hear them.You are doing what God has instructed us to do, to share the gospel with others. Remember most people don't come to know/trust Christ when things are going good, but rather when things are at the absolute worst.What a awesome God we serve to pick us up when we feel we have nothing left to offer but there he his to build us back in his mold not ours.Keep planting those seeds, remember some of them may be planted in rocky soil,some in thorns,some in sandy soil, but they are also planted in fertile soil.Pray for those who try to destroy your spirit, and for the Lord's direction in ministering to others.God bless you will be in my prayers.
Thankyou everyone for the feedback i really appreciate it!
Ignorance isn't Bliss.....it just takes some a lifetime realize that. Keep doing what you do how you do it my Brother, stay strong, be gracious and forgiving in all that you do.......success isn't measured by any of us!!!!!!!
Thanks luke :) were gonna have to hit the water sometime fairly soon..