Great Lakes Bass Fishing Forum

Bass Fishing => Michigan Bass Season => Topic started by: troossien1 on March 12, 2011, 04:18:25 PM

Title: more talk on bass season
Post by: troossien1 on March 12, 2011, 04:18:25 PM
one thing I flat out do not understand is, why don't we just do a catch and delayed release all year long? This way we can have the tournament fisherman still doing their thing and the current closed season is ridiculous because if you were catchand releasing them there is no negative effect because the fish don't start spawing until early May. And another variable is there is ice on all the lakes during the winter months any way.. whats the point of the season? Its not for fish management, that's for sure.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: LennyB on March 12, 2011, 06:52:25 PM
The DNR's answer to that question is that bass and bassfisherman are not the problem. It is the meat hunters targeting pike and walleye who would claim to be bass fishing at that time. Those species also spawn early in the season and they are trying to protect them.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Got Fish?? on March 13, 2011, 10:19:43 AM
 I guess the DNR has gotting management started. Although it is the angler that moves the hole process forward and makes it work. For every nonsportsmen there is 10 of us who under stand the importance of fish management, and will abide by the rules. To make sure there is an abundance of a good quality fishery. Every group has it's negative side, at work, on your block and even in government. you are  going to have someone that is going to take advantage of the system. For the rest of us, just keep doing the right thing and we will provale.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: troossien1 on March 13, 2011, 11:04:17 AM
I guess the DNR has gotting management started. Although it is the angler that moves the hole process forward and makes it work. For every nonsportsmen there is 10 of us who under stand the importance of fish management, and will abide by the rules. To make sure there is an abundance of a good quality fishery. Every group has it's negative side, at work, on your block and even in government. you are  going to have someone that is going to take advantage of the system. For the rest of us, just keep doing the right thing and we will provale.

Good point thanks for the input!
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: rkillick on March 13, 2011, 12:32:48 PM
There are a lot of bass caught in the winter through the ice. People keep them even with the law/season. How many more would be taken if they opened it all year long? Open to any takers all year long is not a good idea. Longer catch and immeadiate release would be nice!
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Bender on March 13, 2011, 12:51:33 PM
I've heard the walleye story before. Sounds like a bunch of crap to me, all the time I spent on inland lakes in Michigan I saw very few people targeting walleye or pike. When I did they were usually trolling so that's easy to spot. Make the Jan. 1-Opening day CIR and ticket anybody in possession of gamefish and be done with it.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: LennyB on March 13, 2011, 01:16:24 PM
I agree with Bender. I have never seen anyone targeting walleye and pike on inland lakes then either. Most walleye guys would be on the Detroit River or Erie then anyway. When we had a DNR rep at our club meeting however, that was his reply. He also said the bass population is very healthy and resilient. Catch and release year round would have very little to no effect on them.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: troossien1 on March 13, 2011, 01:22:54 PM
We just gotta get to a point that makes tournament fisherman happy as well as everyone else
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Frank on March 13, 2011, 02:03:03 PM
I say its because if it was open all year, we would be creative enough to melt the ice so we could put our boats in  :D
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: fiker on March 13, 2011, 05:59:24 PM
We just gotta get to a point that makes tournament fisherman happy as well as everyone else

That would be tough to do.  I don't want a catch and keep season year round. 

Tx fisherman are not particularly fond of paper tourneys that come with the CIR season.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: troossien1 on March 13, 2011, 09:23:10 PM
We just gotta get to a point that makes tournament fisherman happy as well as everyone else

That would be tough to do.  I don't want a catch and keep season year round. 

Tx fisherman are not particularly fond of paper tourneys that come with the CIR season.

But a catch and delayed release season would allow you to keep your fish in your livewell and release them after the weigh in..
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: thedude on March 13, 2011, 10:41:51 PM
pike and walleye LMAO - there's not enough walleye to even fish for in most lakes south of say houghton lake - sure a handful of exceptions - but if that's really the excuse why not have lake or river specific regulations.

No sense in a law that regulates being able to fish for bass in a lake that has no catchable walleye population to begin with! People need to keep more pike as it is... why is there even a closed season?
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Mojo on March 13, 2011, 10:57:14 PM
Realistically - and I hate to stop the cabin fever banter - but  the main reason this isnt going to change is because the current system in place is working well enough such that the michigan eco system is 'seemingly' self sustaining, if not in a self sustained growth period.

(We'll get back to that 'seemingly' later)

Any change, just an opinion, Could upset a system that is terrificly underfunded, and no money is available to study a change in the C&R law, nor is there money to fix the system if the change has an effect, no money to study if there would be an effect.

I suggest we use either the TBF or other conservation arm that we all participate, and propose a 5 year 10 lake study, whereas 10 lakes get a jan 1 C& delayed R, and we help monitor the lake or provide summer / fall tournament results showing either an increase in weighs (ie more fish, better quality) or a decrease in weighs to demonstrate the overall effect of the change.

At least 5 years from now we either would or would not be having this debate. I just find it tough to go over this year after year........
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Bender on March 14, 2011, 12:26:28 AM
When I lived in Michigan I never knew where to go or who to talk to about changing the season. It appears that there are some Town Hall meetings scheduled where you can talk directly to the DNR:
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_53150---,00.html
It might not hurt to go to one if it is in your area to voice your opinion on the subject. If I happen to be in Michigan I'll try to go to one.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Mojo on March 14, 2011, 01:20:46 PM
When I lived in Michigan I never knew where to go or who to talk to about changing the season. It appears that there are some Town Hall meetings scheduled where you can talk directly to the DNR:
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_53150---,00.html
It might not hurt to go to one if it is in your area to voice your opinion on the subject. If I happen to be in Michigan I'll try to go to one.

excellent input Chris, i tried to go to the link, but it is'broke' ?? according to google. Any other link to try ?
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: josh617 on March 14, 2011, 07:14:07 PM
One of the biggest issues is lack of research, the michigan dnr has done relatively little research in the past mainly due to lack of funding and kind of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," attitude; and it has worked this long with little public outcry from the bass community.

On another note, the dnr just recently finished up a 5-year study on the effects of the early catch and release season on the bass population in like 3 or 4 bodies of water throughout the state. Preliminary data showed what many of us already knew the catch and release season has had little to no effect on the bass population and that most michigan bass spawn during the catch and keep season anyways. I m going to try to get the lead researcher to come in and answer questions at the TBF general membership meeting in April.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Bender on March 14, 2011, 07:49:27 PM
Mojo, it's now gone! When you search their site for "Town Hall" it is the first result but the page is gone! I will try to contact them tomorrow and see what is going on.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: troossien1 on March 14, 2011, 07:53:52 PM
Josh617: that's awesome let me know how that goes!!
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: fiker on March 14, 2011, 08:14:04 PM
"But a catch and delayed release season would allow you to keep your fish in your live well and release them after the weigh in"

I would be opposed to this as well. 
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Mojo on March 14, 2011, 08:41:44 PM
One of the biggest issues is lack of research, the michigan dnr has done relatively little research in the past mainly due to lack of funding and kind of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," attitude; and it has worked this long with little public outcry from the bass community.

On another note, the dnr just recently finished up a 5-year study on the effects of the early catch and release season on the bass population in like 3 or 4 bodies of water throughout the state. Preliminary data showed what many of us already knew the catch and release season has had little to no effect on the bass population and that most michigan bass spawn during the catch and keep season anyways. I m going to try to get the lead researcher to come in and answer questions at the TBF general membership meeting in April.

are you serious ? That was like - I was pondering out loud a solution - so thats cool they did that. Please advise to the community on this if more info becomes available and thanks !
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: djkimmel on March 14, 2011, 09:09:06 PM
When I lived in Michigan I never knew where to go or who to talk to about changing the season. It appears that there are some Town Hall meetings scheduled where you can talk directly to the DNR:
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_53150---,00.html
It might not hurt to go to one if it is in your area to voice your opinion on the subject. If I happen to be in Michigan I'll try to go to one.

Are you sure those meetings weren't from way back in 2009?
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: troossien1 on March 14, 2011, 09:48:24 PM
"But a catch and delayed release season would allow you to keep your fish in your live well and release them after the weigh in"

I would be opposed to this as well. 

Just brainstorming haha, I'm not necessarily a huge fan of paper tournaments but I'll take what I can get! Haha
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: djkimmel on March 14, 2011, 10:04:17 PM
This isn't really an issue of 'lack of research' and hasn't been for 50+ years. There's been enough research done on this subject throughout the South and the North to satisfy anyone who hasn't long ago made up their mind. There's no shortage of research and even the handful of biologists who would like to prove the opposite is true -that fishing bass during the spawn harms bass populations - have failed to do so repeatedly. Objective biologists already know this.

This always has been and will be the same issues - fear of change, and fear of the 'public's' reaction to change (with a little 'it's hard to admit I'm wrong' thrown in). Down South, in general, they couldn't care less. No closed seasons. Up North for some reason, more people have it in their mind that we need to provide some type of protection, I guess because it's colder... These are people that have and will never read a study. And some of them don't care to hear about them. They already 'know' what is needed.

Of course, they don't know diddly. They just think they know because someone else who thought they knew (and has also never read a study or talked to a real bass season expert) told them so. It's the battle of the old wives tales. Some anglers especially seem to be leaders in knowing stuff they actually have never studied in any way.

But - and this is an important but - what we learned last time in the process of changing is that a lot less people now believe our bass need this unnecessary 'protection.' A lot more of them just want to fish and not worry about it. That helped the MDNR feel better about making the change more of us wanted than they thought. That was the tipping factor. No doubt about it.

If anything, I have to believe even more people no longer worry about having a closed season for bass. But, there is still the fear of change. Fear of change with walleye anglers who think there will be a large scale illegal harvest of walleye. Regardless of how valid this issue is, I have NEVER supported legislation that punishes the majority of us because of a few sleezeballs in the world. That is the wrong way to manage recreation, regardless of shortages of COs and budgets. It is a sure way to continue the loss of outdoors people. That is DRAMATICALLY more of a scary issue than a few sleezeballs.

There will be just enough fear of change left amongst others to make it easier to say things like, 'hey, how many anglers really will fish that early... c'mon...' We can't let that attitude win. It is not much better for the future of fishing than denying the majority of good anglers outdoors experience because of a few sleezeballs.

We have to prove a large number of anglers really want more bass fishing that they should legitimately have in an organized, mature, demonstrated, determined way and that thanks to studies showing closed seasons for bass are unnecessary, we are not being greedy or selfish because we don't have enough bass fishing already because there's no reason we shouldn't have more bass fishing, and because it is good and necessary for the future of the sport to have MORE opportunity, not less. Meetings attendance; survey results; petitions; talk to your friends and neighbors; whatever it takes. How bad do you want it?!?

I predict, that despite obstacles, we will have a longer catch and release bass season within less than 5 years. It won't be easy again and it won't probably just happen. I also still believe if we try to include catch-and-keep tournaments at this in the existing or presently closed season, we may not get any additional bass fishing. The tournament issues is still too big a problem with too many people, especially on inland lakes.

People read this stuff and, though I'm not a poker player, I understand the concept of not showing a hand too soon, so I won't go into details, but I think things will fall into line down the road. I'm probably less patient than a lot of you, but with these kinds of things patience is necessary. Try to ram it through and you'll be met by an equal and opposite reaction just because.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Bender on March 14, 2011, 10:59:32 PM
Are you sure those meetings weren't from way back in 2009?
Maybe, but the site was active as of 3-13-11. Here (http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20091215142247/http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10366_53150---,00.html) is a cached version that seems like maybe it was from last year.?

If there is anything I can do to help let me know. I read a lot of studies and presented them to the local DNR where I lived in New York where I was paid no attention to. I think I was one of the only bass fishermen in the area and the other couple just didn't seem to pay any attention to the law. It was even more frustrating up there because the state was divided into regions and each regional manager was allowed to make whatever season he wanted. My county was completely closed until 3rd Saturday in June but the next county over was CIR any time.

I think Michigan is different from down South, where I live at the moment, because down there it seems that everybody that catches ANYTHING takes it home to eat it. And the fishing is very tough near me which may be in part due to that fact. While that is not as common up here there still needs to be some type of law in place so that it doesn't happen even though it seems that the 14" limit is rarely enforced with the people that I see who do keep fish to eat up here. 
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: Got Fish?? on March 26, 2011, 03:59:15 AM
 I'm not a big fan of catch, put the fish in the livewell, run and gun all day. Go to the way in,3 to 6 hours latter. Then let your fish go, on the other side of the lake. Seems to me that we regulate our bass season so we do not hinder the reproduction of our bass population. It is believed that bass protect and Gard there nest from predators, which helps increase the population of there Young. I believe that an immediately catch and release season is the best way.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: UAWBigDog on March 26, 2011, 10:04:10 AM
Essentially most of the studies were done in Texas by the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (aka Texas DNR) and as we all know they have a year 'round bass season with a catch and immediate release bass season.  We all know that all bass don't all spawn at the same time.  Personally I am not a bed fisherman although I know that when fishing out on St. Clair and Erie drifting and dragging that I am picking off some of the bedding fish.  Can't help that on windy days when you can not see the beds.  But most of the fish caught are staging or post spawn fish.  The season is sufficient probably for this year because now we are going through a re-freeze of all the lakes.  There is still plenty of ice out there on Erie, LSC, and just about all the inland lakes in Southeastern Michigan, so a Catch and Immediate Release season at this point would be a mute point.  But what about those years, and we have had them, where on this exact weekend, we have already had ice-out and quite a few of us have ventured out and honestly targeted bass.  I've done it, many others have done it and admitted it, and still more have and not admitted it.  A year 'round season on bass would be the best thing especially if the data shows that natural reproduction of bass is not hindered as proven in Texas and other states like Indiana, Arkansas, Louisiana, and the list of states go on.  It is not going to cost the State of Michigan any more money especially since the reality is that the DNR does not have enough field officers to enforce it.  Let's face it, the current Governor of Michigan is going to "gut" whatever he can to save money including that department.  So sensibly speaking it would be a cost savings to the state to allow for a Catch and Immediate Release Season from January 1 to the Saturday before Memorial Day for all Inland Lakes, and then January 1 to the 3rd weekend in June for LSC, St. Clair River, and Detroit River.  Then having the open season for bass just as it has always been, the Saturday before Memorial Day to December 31 for all inland waters and the 3rd Saturday in June for LSC, the St. Clair River, of course the Detroit River.  The data of years and years of research has already proven that there is no harm and no reproduction issues to these types of seasons.  It just makes sense.


BD                                     ;D
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: djkimmel on March 28, 2011, 12:35:54 AM
Not sure what you mean about 'most studies were done in Texas' but if you mean studies about bass seasons and the impact of fishing during the spawn on bass populations, that is not accurate. There have been studies done in quite a few of the states and in Canada since the 1940s and none of them, north or south, have shown a population effect on bass from fishing during the spawn.

There have been two studies that I have ever found in years of research and talking to research biologists from over 20 states and provinces that have shown any possible affect to bass overall on two bodies of water at all that might be attributable to spring bass fishing and that was on the Illinois river and a small lake in Wisconsin. There have been a large number of studies that showed no significant change that could be attributable to spring, spawn or all year bass fishing.

There is a biologist in Canada who is trying hard to apparently make it his life's work to prove fishing during the spawn in the lower productive lakes of Canada at least affect the bass population (last I knew anyway - I talked to him quite a while about this topic) and he has failed to do so. All he has ever shown is that catching a bass is bad for that individual bass that was caught.

Something that is mitigated quite a bit by the voluntary catch and release ethic of so many anglers now.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: UAWBigDog on March 28, 2011, 08:15:43 AM
I probably should have clarified my statement better by saying that the research findings I have read have all been from Texas.  Texas has been the "high profile" talked about state that we read about most in fishing publications.  At least that is what stands out in my mind.  Are there any web addresses that you could share with the forum to better educate us all??   ???   I would be very interested in being more educated on the subject.


BD.                          ;D
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: thedude on March 28, 2011, 08:35:13 AM
it needs to be catch and delayed release or catch and keep. Period. Keep in mind that for pretty much all inland lakes - fish are at peak spawn opening day of catch and keep season. Further north, they haven't even started until mid june in some cases.

Why on earth wouldn't we try to get catch/keep or catch/delayed release during the time of year prior to the spawn? A boat ride in Mar, April or May will be far less stressful to a fish than a boat ride in July, Aug, or Sept when the temperatures are DOUBLE.

While a catch and immediate release season does make at least a little sense - it should be from may 15 through june 15, not when the fish are at their peak activity and probably as healthy as they will be the entire year.

Furthermore, a longer tournament season might help some heavily fished lakes recover better rather than have 100 tournaments crammed into 12 weeks time like we do now. Yes really, MI tournament season is only 12 weeks.  No reason it can't be 16 or 18 weeks
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: SethV on March 29, 2011, 09:43:54 PM
I am opposed to any kind of bass season.  There should be no season of any kind and there is no reason for it.

For those that say we need a season - how does having a tournament in April make an impact any different than a tournament in October??  Why in the world do we need a closed "pre-spawn" and open right at "spawn"?  And before you say, well then open the season later to protect the spawn - we don't need that either - they spawn fine today.

I can't change things, but I can vote with my wallet.  I refuse to spend ANY money in Michigan on fishing related items before tx season.  I go out of state to fish tournaments.  I order all of my seasonal boat maintence equipment on line from out of state.  I buy my spring tackle out of state.  Sure, in the grand scheme of things it is not much, but if Michigan won't support me, I won't support this state either.  I think the state misses out on lots of extra revenue - people would come here vs leaving to fish in the spring and that means revenue from hotels, gas, food, tackle, ect.

There is so little pressure on the water here, it is just ironic that this is the place with a season.  So many days in the middle of summer I am on Erie, whacking smallies with not another boat in sight.  Back home in Oklahoma we pounded the lakes with 300 boat tournaments every weekend, 52 weekends a year.  And even with no season and tons of pressure, fishing was great.

Seth

Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: djkimmel on April 03, 2011, 08:20:22 PM
I probably should have clarified my statement better by saying that the research findings I have read have all been from Texas.  Texas has been the "high profile" talked about state that we read about most in fishing publications.  At least that is what stands out in my mind.  Are there any web addresses that you could share with the forum to better educate us all??   ???   I would be very interested in being more educated on the subject.


BD.                          ;D

Have a whole section on it on GreatLakesBass.com. Been there for years just waiting for people to read it. Start here http://www.greatlakesbass.com/fishing/bassbiomgmt1.htm

It's really easy to find bass study summaries on the Internet, but to really know what's going, best to get a copy and check out more details. I've stockpiled quite a few over the years.

Before you ask me to loan them, I'm a little off in my filing for a while now for some reasons... Who knows where they are at the moment, but what I did is actually call most of the available research biologists and ask them what they meant by this or that in their study, and what the results could be reasoned to mean. So when I talk about bass seasons, I'm not going just by what I think, I'm going by what the actual research biologists have told me themselves.

I know I have an extensive MDNR study upstairs done on Lake St. Clair bass that found there is no scientific reason for a later opening in the bass season on St. Clair but they decided not to recommend a change because they felt too many anglers would be against having an earlier opening, and back not too long ago, the majority of the anglers on many forums did express that feeling. Sad. We are often our own worst enemies... we meaning people in general. Times and attitudes are changing though...

We'll always be dealing with fear of change most of all in these things.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: SethV on April 03, 2011, 10:57:53 PM
they felt too many anglers would be against having an earlier opening, and back not too long ago, the majority of the anglers on many forums did express that feeling. Sad.

That is sad.  I don't think any real bass fisherman could be in favor of a season.  They should go join peta instead.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: djkimmel on April 05, 2011, 03:03:42 PM
I was pretty surprised that last time I tried to change things some of the anglers who fought it. At first anyway. Many of them did come around though the fear of change made it very difficult. Things have improved quite a bit now in that area. Many more anglers are not as against the idea now. The MDNR survey showed that in impressive numbers.
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: bassfan586 on April 05, 2011, 08:36:01 PM
I agree.  What bass fisherman wouldn,t want to fish year round?
Title: Re: more talk on bass season
Post by: troossien1 on April 08, 2011, 10:25:05 PM
I agree with that!!