Great Lakes Bass Fishing Forum

Tournaments => Opens & Other Bass Tournament Circuits => Topic started by: djkimmel on December 27, 2009, 07:32:07 PM

Title: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: djkimmel on December 27, 2009, 07:32:07 PM
This gets debated every year on forums where bass tournament anglers hang out. If you fish team tournaments on the West shore of Michigan in any of the connected waters, do you think anglers should be allowed to run to other lakes or be limited to only fishing the lake the tournament launches on?

Lets keep it civil and respect each others' opinions without reading too much into comments either. I'm wondering if cabin fever might be ahead of schedule this year?
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: senkoluvr on December 27, 2009, 07:37:29 PM
I think if you are fishing a Grand River tournament it should be a Grand River Tournament.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: rustydog on December 28, 2009, 06:20:01 AM
Have everyone fish the same conditions.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: motocross269 on December 28, 2009, 07:32:58 AM
I think if it is safe you should be able to run.......It spreads out the field and makes the tournament more like a Chess Match..."Do I run and use up fishing time or do I stay close to the ramp and optimize bait in the water time".....It gives the field more options and rewards those that make the right decisions..
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Eric on December 28, 2009, 07:46:57 AM
I like the option to run.  The only two conerns I have is fish and fisherman safety/wellbeing and integrity.  I believe there are those out there who may endanger themselves or others just to catch a few fish, and I'm not entirely convinced no one will cheat to win.  But all things considered, I vote to let 'em run.  Why is this a perpetual issue on the west side, but not on the east side?  Same thing isn't it? 
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: oldjigger on December 28, 2009, 11:59:05 AM
The East side it's just very hard to control.  so it has been left wide open.  the west side it's easy to control so there is the choice. 
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Durand Dan on December 28, 2009, 01:14:35 PM
I voted open. But I beleive the tournament director should make the call depending on the weather. I would think their insurance coverage would dictate that.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: TritonTR20 on December 28, 2009, 01:19:36 PM
If its a muskegon tourney then keep it there. If its a Lake Michigan tourney, keep it there. White Lake, etc.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: TCook on December 28, 2009, 01:33:43 PM
Leave lake michigan open, the field will spread out. If you dont have the guts to run to better fish your loss. I know guys that will run long distances in a smaller boat even when lake michigan is kinda rough because thats where the best fishing is at. If you are gunning for a large tournament this idea of closing lake michigan shouldn't even be an option.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: SethV on December 28, 2009, 03:40:09 PM
Leave lake michigan open, the field will spread out. If you dont have the balls to run to better fish your loss. I know guys that will run long distances in a smaller boat even when lake michigan is kinda rough because thats where the best fishing is at. If you are gunning for a large tournament this idea of closing lake michigan shouldn't even be an option.

+1

I would not even consider fishing a "closed" event over there.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Waterfoul on December 28, 2009, 05:50:03 PM

Open!  Run if you want.  Stay on the take off lake if you want. 
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: skeeterman190 on December 28, 2009, 06:05:51 PM
 I agree w Seth. I wont even consider it if its closed.. Im a nut and will run.. Lets just say if ya know me and the boat ive got ive been over 65 miles one way in it!
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Redbone on December 28, 2009, 09:07:09 PM
I'm not running in my little pos boat... Thats for sure.  But I do believe it should be OPEN 100% though.  If you can get to any body of water without getting out of your boat you should be able to fish it.  This even gives my little boat an advantage in some ways.  I can get to some shallows were a bigger boat couldnt. But then the bigger boat can make a good run.

Except... Staying in Michigan waters only.  Doesnt really effect the west side of the state but the east side it does.  I dont know about bass tourneys but I know most walleye tourney fisherman cant go into Canadian waters.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: gr@ssmonkey on December 28, 2009, 10:02:16 PM
 If you are gunning for a large tournament this idea of closing lake michigan shouldn't even be an option.
[/quote]
I agree w Seth. I wont even consider it if its closed.. Im a nut and will run.. Lets just say if ya know me and the boat ive got ive been over 65 miles one way in it!
OPEN,THIS IS THE LAKESHORE,HAVE THE TOURNAMENT SOMEWHERE ELSE IF YOU DON'T WANT BOATS TO USE LAKE MICHIGAN,if i didn't fish last year ROI when the lake was open,i would be with seth and them i wouldn't even consider coming
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: djkimmel on December 28, 2009, 11:08:12 PM
Well, it's close. Always seems to be about 50-50. Makes it a little tough over there on the west side, but just like us anglers, the tournament directors have to make a choice of who they want for their customer base too.

Both really do have their own unique challenges. In the end, that is what tournament competition is all about - who makes the best decisions during that time based on the challenges presented. That's definitely one of the main things I like about tournament fishing.

If I'm in a 40 boat tournament, there's not much attraction in running. In a 100 boat tournament, that changes things. For me anyway.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: ROI Outdoors on December 28, 2009, 11:17:06 PM
I voted open. But I beleive the tournament director should make the call depending on the weather. I would think their insurance coverage would dictate that.

It should always be a weather/wave forecasting call, anything other a small craft advisory should be open.  Doesn't the word OPEN sound much more appealing than the word closed? 

Let's look at some recent uses of the two words in the everyday English Language - 

Quote from a guy looking for a Slim Jim at 9:47pm:
"Luckily the store was OPEN until 10pm, if I would have arrived just 14 minutes later the store would have been closed and I would have had to settle for a Jacks Link Beef Stick from Seven Eleven." - OPEN gets the nod for this guy!

Quote from Senator Harry Reid sometime in the near future:
"To be OPEN to the idea that the government shouldn't run our lives is worse than being closed to the idea of Nancy Pelosi's Socialist Utopia." - No contest there - OPEN is clearly the  better choice here!

OPEN just seems to be the more optimistic choice - "OPEN to improvement", "OPEN to others opinions". "OPEN to guys trying to create better tournaments" - let's just take closed out of our tournament vocabulary and start fostering a new OPEN-minded tournament angling community here in Michigan.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Flyin200 on January 03, 2010, 07:48:29 PM
I think running should be open if the tournament is geared for the angler that can afford to run. Meaning if it's a Tournament that has a payback better than 60 boats and first place is more than x amount and x expenses = Worth It. Other than that its up to to how the director wants to promote it.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: TritonTR20 on January 04, 2010, 11:41:43 AM
According to the Michigan DNR web site it is illegal to transport and/or release fish from one lake into another lake...not trying to start an argument. Supposed the same holds true for lake Erie and st. Clair? So if I run from St. Clair to Erie and bring fish back to St. Clair, am I breaking the law?
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Waterfoul on January 04, 2010, 01:54:22 PM
According to the Michigan DNR web site it is illegal to transport and/or release fish from one lake into another lake...not trying to start an argument. Supposed the same holds true for lake Erie and st. Clair? So if I run from St. Clair to Erie and bring fish back to St. Clair, am I breaking the law?

Not if the lakes are connected by navigable waters.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Ranger5Smallie on January 04, 2010, 02:00:07 PM
OPEN!  Personally there are very few tx's on the west side where I feel it is worth running the big lake.  I wouldnt run if all I can win is $1000.  Just not worth it in my book.  But I like the possibility if I decide.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Waterfoul on January 04, 2010, 02:33:24 PM
OPEN!  Personally there are very few tx's on the west side where I feel it is worth running the big lake.  I wouldnt run if all I can win is $1000.  Just not worth it in my book.  But I like the possibility if I decide.

$1000 isn't worth running if you only have to spend $20 on gas to do it?  That's what it costs me (Merc 150 EFI) to run from Musk. to White Lake and back, probably less actually.  If the lake allows I'll spend that $20 if I KNOW the fishing is better on White, or vice versa.  It's about a 19 mile run round trip pier to pier.  I have hot spots near the channels on both lakes... so I'd be fishing in less than 15-18 minutes of leaving either channel if the lake is cooperative.  But it all depends on Lake Michigan.

But like you said... I would like to be able to make the choice of running or not.  And I voted open.  Hint... get yourself a hand held VHF radio... the big lake fisherman are more than happy to give you a wave report before you head out.  Plus, you SHOULD have a VHF if you are on Lake Michigan (or any of the great lakes) for safety.  The Coast Gaurd cannot find you if you call them on the phone.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: mibassfisherman on January 05, 2010, 11:15:04 AM
I say keep it open.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: LGMOUTH on January 05, 2010, 07:03:15 PM
 I dont think it really matters if its open or closed. You can catch the winning weight on just about any body of water connected to lake Michigan on any given day.

OPEN!  Personally there are very few tx's on the west side where I feel it is worth running the big lake.  I wouldnt run if all I can win is $1000.  Just not worth it in my book. 


 Personally I don't look at it that way. If I enter a tournament I want to WIN everytime, and if I think I can do that by running to another lake then I'm going to, if I think I can win on that lake then I'm going to stay. If I cant run then I will do the best that I can on that lake with everyone else.
 So I guess I'm Neutral in this one, looks like Dan should have put that in the poll. ;D
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Waterfoul on January 05, 2010, 07:29:17 PM
I dont think it really matters if its open or closed. You can catch the winning weight on just about any body of water connected to lake Michigan on any given day.

OPEN!  Personally there are very few tx's on the west side where I feel it is worth running the big lake.  I wouldnt run if all I can win is $1000.  Just not worth it in my book. 


 Personally I don't look at it that way. If I enter a tournament I want to WIN everytime, and if I think I can do that by running to another lake then I'm going to, if I think I can win on that lake then I'm going to stay. If I cant run then I will do the best that I can on that lake with everyone else.
 So I guess I'm Neutral in this one, looks like Dan should have put that in the poll. ;D

Neutral would then be an open vote since you would run if you wanted to. :D
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: skeeterman190 on January 05, 2010, 07:54:27 PM
 Since were gearing more on the westside on this post i will say this. I agree with don.. on things. U can catch big bags in both Muskegon and White.. I just play the odds and figure that i have a better chance fishing less pressure than staying..Theres always boats running if u can.. Ive only personally seen 2 times where u shouldnt have run.. And i went one of them.. The other was a death sentence.. I cashed a good check the time i went from the Grand.. I think me and Tad Hepler were the only 2 dumb enough to go.. well he won and i got third so....I dont think that anyone should dictate where i fish if i have enough boat driving skill and marbles to go where i think i can win.. I did get a little worried when i fished a tourney over there a few years back and they annouced that they had found fish tied up?? thats the only thing that makes me wonder.. people will always try and bend things...
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: SethV on January 05, 2010, 08:40:26 PM
I also don't belive the tx director should ever make a call based on conditions that day.  If it is an "open" event, then leave it open regardless of conditions.  If the director declares it "safe" and conditions change, it seems that director might be liable.  The sole person making the decision to run or not should be the person behind the steering wheel.


Seth
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: you prolly on January 07, 2010, 08:18:27 PM
my vote would be close the big lake.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: djkimmel on January 08, 2010, 01:46:09 AM
Most of you are keeping this about the issue or question. Thanks for that. Please remember to keep your comments about the issue, not the person. Everyone has a right to their opinion and everyone else should give equal respect to others' opinions as they want given to their own opinion. Any personal stuff will be deleted. Thanks,
Dan
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: canvsbk on January 08, 2010, 09:48:36 AM
I agree with Largemouth - I just want to win regardless of the boundaries. That being said my preference would be to have as many options as possible. If I'm in the Detroit river and feel I could do better in the St. Clair river I would prefer not to be confined. ;D
I find it interesting that the discusion is always about Muskegon and never about Monroe versus Colchester or whatever. ???
Happy new year to all. :)

Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Fishmael on January 08, 2010, 11:15:57 AM
I voted open because I only have a 17ft boat and probably wouldn't run Lake MI in it.  So, get all the people out of there that you can!  Open to run means less fishing pressure on the launch lake and more opportunity to catch a nice bag where ever you start.  I may even start a rumor that they are killing them on "fill in the blank" lake that is about a half hour run away!  ;D  OK, I probably wouldn't do that, but the thought would cross my mind...
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: jgip087 on January 26, 2010, 10:13:06 PM
Personally I voted closed only because the tournaments are usually less than 100 boats and draw a wide variety of boats. I know a lot of guys who have small boats and won't enter the tournaments on the Grand because of the fact a lot of people will run and 90% of the checks usually go to those people. In tournaments like FLW and Bassmasters where everyone is running a 225 or 250 I see the point to leave it open and find the best fish for making a great show. However, around here I would like to see tournaments where everyone is on some what equal grounds, in this case closing the waters so everyone has an opportunity to fish the same waters, and no one can tell me that any lake/river on the west side is lacking bass. (even if a body was we are looking for the best of the best on a given day so just figure out how to beat everyone else in an even match) However, if the draw was over 100 boats I would say the lake should be open, if weather permits, due to the size of the lakes on the west side.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: ROI Outdoors on January 27, 2010, 02:24:47 AM
Personally I voted closed only because the tournaments are usually less than 100 boats and draw a wide variety of boats. I know a lot of guys who have small boats and won't enter the tournaments on the Grand because of the fact a lot of people will run and 90% of the checks usually go to those people. In tournaments like FLW and Bassmasters where everyone is running a 225 or 250 I see the point to leave it open and find the best fish for making a great show. However, around here I would like to see tournaments where everyone is on some what equal grounds, in this case closing the waters so everyone has an opportunity to fish the same waters, and no one can tell me that any lake/river on the west side is lacking bass. (even if a body was we are looking for the best of the best on a given day so just figure out how to beat everyone else in an even match) However, if the draw was over 100 boats I would say the lake should be open, if weather permits, due to the size of the lakes on the west side.

I think these are all valid points but I think we should start a Poll that asks "Should Team Tournaments on the Lake Michigan Shoreline and Connecting Waterways be Open or Closed for Large Weekend Series Events looking to draw the most amount of boats in order to increase payouts for the anglers?"

It is perplexing as to why this debate seems to only be an issue on the "West Side" - isn't it the same for St. Clair, Erie, Detroit River, and the Bay?  Is it the size of the connecting waterway or something that makes it different?  Personally I think the anglers over there would love running around over here because you can always get out of the waves on the Lake Michigan Shoreline Connecting Waters but over there you can't really hide from the beating somedays.  When water is closed off to "level the playing field" or to make it "somewhat equal grounds" when does the quest for "equality" stop?  Guys with the big boats that run in the Grand can't get into some of the waters that have taken more top 5 finishes and the most 1st Places over the last 7 years so the sediment that the runners have an unfair advantage is a myth.  So if a bigger boat can't get into water a smaller boat can shouldn't that be closed?  When you go down that road where do you stop - the debate is simply over boat size not an anglers skill - its like Communism applied to tournament fishing in my opinion.  If a someone feels that they have a disadvantage because of their boat than get another boat.

Doesn't everyone want to see the best show with the best fish?  Why do you think FLW or BASS hasn't been running their show over here - it is this topic that keeps the BFL's or BASS Opens from coming over here.  I want to see the Michigan BFL come back like in 1996 when there were over 190 boats on the Grand and Muskegon, this won't happen until we can post some numbers in the 80's - 90's in a few tourneys and the only way to do that is to fish bigger waters like the entire LAKESHORE.

Bigger boats do not have an advantage, if the boat floats and has a working motor it is equal - the only thing bringing any advantage is the angler.  When the tools are subject to discrimination in the quest for tournament equality you can't ever stop if you start down that road. I guess I just must watch to much Fox News because this Open/Closed debate feels like the Socialist Movement in the tournament scene.  I just want to see the Big Tournament come to my area so I don't have to drive to the Detroit area every time I want to get into a bigger show, the gas savings would be huge.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: VinceR on January 27, 2010, 10:00:15 AM
I voted for "Open". I will always vote for open.

I have fished both, the east side, and the west side of the state. In the 80's and 90's, I fished Federation (who fished the east side and west side), U.S. Bass, Tri-State, and opens on the west side. After Tri-State started the 90 and Under circuit, they opened the Muskegon and Grand River tournaments (to run) for the regular Tri-State and Go For the Gold series. The Federation allowed anglers to run.

After Tri-State went away, and my club no longer affiliated with the Federation, I began to fish Angler's Choice (then, Greater North), and opens on the east side of the state. Over there, all waters were open (Saginaw Bay, weather permitting). The only time that they weren't was when the season was closed for a particular part of the lake (Canadian, Walpole, etc.).

Even though, since 92', I have had boats that I felt comfortable running with, I chose not to (most of the time). Then, and now, my choice has been to maximize my fishing time. I prefer to locate fish as close to the launch as possible, and spend my time working those fish. Sometimes, it pays off, sometimes, not.

One advantage in allowing the anglers to run is that there will be fewer anglers fishing close by. More water to myself. I can't count the times where my number has been called, and I just dropped the trolling motor, and started fishing. Or idled around the corner, and started fishing. On a few of those occassions, I had a limit by the time the last of the boats reached their destinations.

As mentioned above, sometimes, a bigger boat was a disadvantage.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Puma on January 28, 2010, 09:23:35 AM
I voted for closed, but it was difficult.  I guess the biggest concern that I have is what it does to the fish and some of the fisheries.  I believe that some smaller lakes that have been run to, have been depleted from being a great fishing lake to a marginal to medium fishing lake.  I'd like to see some fish tagged and find out where the fish go.  I doubt those fish return back to their former lakes, and to me it is if, those fish were taken home and put on the supper table.

Another reason, is it does give some of those unscrupulous folks that would hide some fish in an obscure spot where some of the other competitors would never go to fish.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: jgip087 on January 28, 2010, 05:22:11 PM
Great point Puma. Stress is a HUGE factor on post release tournament fatality in bass. Some might say if bass were dying after we release them other anglers would find them floating. Nature takes it course very very quickly and many of the fish would never be seen, because the number of casualties is not great at one time but over the course of a tournament season I imagine the numbers would be a lot more than expected. I have seen surveys done that have said that an average of 10 percent, many studies around the country are higher, of fish released alive after tournaments in the northern US die up to 4 days from being released due to stress from improper fish care, this is why I am such an avid person for protecting the future of the sport by preserving our catch. No doubt that a boat ride down, or up, Lake Michigan puts a lot of stress on bass.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: jgip087 on January 31, 2010, 11:55:40 PM
Just realized something funny from a post above "when does the quest for "equality" stop?" Just a funny comment to me because isn't this the USA in 2010? We are turning into a socialist European wanna-be with pushing for universal health care, welfare, redistribution of wealth, I could go on but I will stop and it is off topic. very happy to be REPUBLICAN lol
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: Wolverines on February 02, 2010, 03:19:30 PM
100% should be open (pending safe conditions).  It's no different than guys w/ smaller boats going to Tupper from Jordan, Mud from Wabbasis, etc.  If you can get your boat to a spot within the rules...have at it.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: sinkersanddinkers on February 02, 2010, 07:53:18 PM
I think if youre fishing a body of water, all connecting water should be allowed to fish. An example is the Grand River, when you launch from Riverside, youre launching in the river. But all of the buyous are subsidary or connecting waters, including Spring Lake. Would it be right to consider those off limits and just fish the main river??? Just because some people are not willing to take the chance, doesnt mean those that will, should be told no. If each boat has the liability insurance they are supposed to, whats the problem?
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: redwing on June 17, 2010, 08:51:51 AM
They should all be closed to running, give the local anglers that actually know the lake the advantage and make them all fish on an even platform.  By letting people run, you are catering to the anglers with the bigger boats.
Title: Re: Poll: Should Team Tournaments on West MI Shore be Open or Closed to Running
Post by: thedude on June 17, 2010, 11:24:56 AM
I said open - but really i think its up to the tournament. No one would want to fish a 150 boat tournament on white or muskegon if some of the field couldn't run and everyone was stuck in that lake. In reality - those lakes really arent that big.

The only thing i don't like about having open tournaments is in regards to what PUMA said. While i think the stress on the fish can be managed reasonably - the idea of thousands of pounds of fish being moved from Pentwater, arcadia, white etc down to muskegon and the grand is troubling. These fish aren't moving freely between bodies of water regardless of them being connected. It opens the door to spreading diseases and parasites from lake to lake and - to be honest - those fish may as well just be harvested and eaten because they are never going back to the lakes they were originally caught from - we can't continually remove the best fish from smaller lakeshore lakes and expect them to keep producing - especially the further north you go when some of those fish take well over a decade to be 4-5lbs.  Its a much different situation than the  bay, huron, st clair and erie - where the strain of fish and habitat is all very similar and the population is huge. The staggering majority of fish being moved around are not lake michigan fish and are being moved to foreign habitat.